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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
 Posted - 01/30/2005 : 10:59:06 [Permalink]
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quote:
Storm:
I would not say I was promelgating a New form of energy.... Just one not yet discovered....
Without clear evidence that ghosts even exist, why (and here is some unmitigated gall given your lack of scientific expertise in the area of physics) hypothesize an as yet undiscovered energy source to explain their existence? You have put the cart before the horse. Logic and science dictate that you must first establish the fact of ghosts before you can speculate on the why of ghosts.
An attempt to explain, using scientific terminology, notions that have not been established as facts is classic pseudo-science. Storm, what you are promulgating is textbook baloney.
quote:
Storm:
Why is it so hard to believe that Consciousness, the complexity of our mind, thoughts, actions, in life take longer to break down than other organisms, thereby producing what I have labeled ghostly phenomenon?
Show me undeniable evidence that ghosts exist. Until you do that there is no reason to consider why they exist beyond analyzing the fact that some people think they do.
And while all the other investigations may be fun, speaking for myself, I think the real study of ghosts is a purely psychological exploration… |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Paulos23
Skeptic Friend
USA
446 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2005 : 11:16:56 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Storm
I would not say I was promelgating a New form of energy.... Just one not yet discovered....
Yes you are, by saying it hasn't been discovered yet. |
You can go wrong by being too skeptical as readily as by being too trusting. -- Robert A. Heinlein
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2005 : 11:29:51 [Permalink]
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quote:
Siberia:
Your idea isn't impossible, because nothing is impossible.
Close. Some things are impossible. For honesty sake, we're just not entirely sure of what those things are. While we cannot disprove ideas that are outside of the realm of the falsifiable, it is likely that much of what has been suggested is impossible.
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2005 : 12:33:06 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Kil
quote:
Siberia:
Your idea isn't impossible, because nothing is impossible.
Close. Some things are impossible. For honesty sake, we're just not entirely sure of what those things are. While we cannot disprove ideas that are outside of the realm of the falsifiable, it is likely that much of what has been suggested is impossible.
Well, yeah. How can we prove something is, indeed, impossible? |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2005 : 17:00:18 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Siberia
Well, yeah. How can we prove something is, indeed, impossible?
Are you saying it's impossible to prove that something is impossible?  |
"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2005 : 20:31:01 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Storm
I would not say I was promelgating a New form of energy.... Just one not yet discovered....
And how does that differ from "new to science?"quote:
Why is it so hard to believe that Consciousness, the complexity of our mind, thoughts, actions, in life take longer to break down than other organisms, thereby producing what I have labeled ghostly phenomenon?
For one thing, because the brain is one of the most delicate organs in the body. Just a few minutes without oxygen can cause permanent damage to it, whereas most of the rest of the body can fully recover from such abuse. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2005 : 23:59:59 [Permalink]
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quote:
Bullshit!!!! You have been well a @%*! to me from the beginning... Oh and I do go to scool, for Psychology.... I am no fool Dude....
Expirement.... Scientific research into this dispersed energyhypothesis has come a long way especially with the use of Scientific equipment than can measure different particles, magnetic, fields in the area of where hauntings are said to occur.... things take time...
Get back to me when you can demonstrate a single instance of "dispersed energy" that cannot be explained by other, already known, means.
And just because I point out that your ideas are unfounded in reality does not mean that I have been a "@%*!" to you. You are really pissed that I am right and jst don't have the tolerance or desire to be soft and friendly while I tell you that you are delusional.
Siberia: Nothing is impossible? Well, if you like, I can provide you an example of the impossible. Heh, I will do it anyway. There was a debate a while back between Ricky (who held your position on this matter) and another SFN member. To the claim that "nothing is impossible!" came the reply, "So, it is possible to change an elephant into a butterfly by rubbing coconut oil on it's testicles? Because, if nothing is impossible, then that must be possible."
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2005 : 07:57:58 [Permalink]
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originally posted by Dude
quote:
And just because I point out that your ideas are unfounded in reality does not mean that I have been a "@%*!" to you. You are really pissed that I am right and jst don't have the tolerance or desire to be soft and friendly while I tell you that you are delusional.
Dude I am not pissed off that you point out my ideas are unfounded... It is the way in which you go about it..... Tolerence well... I am still fuckin here... aren't I  ... In fact I show more up for chat than you do... not that that means anything... well it does it means I am tolerant, open to this sites views... interested in what you have to say and who you all are... and who I am...
Delusional... Well maybe.. Arent' we all Dude... Aren't we... all... Soft and friendly I am... 
Oh and you have always been a "@%*!" to me.... I expect nothing less |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2005 : 19:32:39 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Ricky
To avoid the hijack, I have created a thread here
Thanks... |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2005 : 20:21:16 [Permalink]
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Let's put the thread back on track:
quote:
Originally posted by Storm
I believe most phenomenon are natural....
As do we, but for different reasons.
quote:
Why is it so hard to believe that Consciousness, the complexity of our mind, thoughts, actions, in life take longer to break down than other organisms, thereby producing what I have labelled ghostly phenomenon?
Because consciousness is a function of the living working brain. So little is required to make it stop functioning. Just a sudden drop in blood-pressure is sufficient for rendering a person unconscious. Blunt force trauma easily renders the brain unconscious. Chemicals and mechanic effects have rendered consciousness altered permanently. So fragile is it.
Upon death the brain cease to function, as consciousness is a function of the working brain, it will also cease to exist.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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R.Wreck
SFN Regular
USA
1191 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2005 : 18:58:34 [Permalink]
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From The Rationalists Manual:
quote:
Primitive (savage) man, seeing his shadow, and that it moved about with him, and hearing the echo of his voice, thought that it was his "second self." Cases of suspended animation swooning, fainting, and comatose conditions from injuries -- would be considered to be death, and when animation was restored the second- self, who had left the body for a short period, had returned. In expectation of this reanimation, it became customary to supply the actual dead with the necessaries of life -- food, drink, clothing, etc. -- and murders, self-immolations, and destructions of live- stock took place, with the idea that they should accompany the departed soul. Men had their cattle, horses, dogs, wives, slaves, and, money buried with them; women, their domestic appliances; and children, their toys. Every dead person became a "ghost," and added one more to the others gone before, "haunting the old home, lingering near the place of burial, and wandering about in the adjacent bush." (H. Spencer, "Principles of Society.") Thus an invisible world of ghosts, spirits, etc., arose in the primitive mind. The spirits of the wicked dead, the offspring of fallen angels, etc., became "demons," and were the cause of all their troubles. The simple state of the dead was called "sheol," which, when it acquired a more definite meaning of a miserable place, became "Hades," afterwards developing into a place of torture or diabolical government having gradations, "Gehenna." As the place of burial became gradually more distant -- even to the top of high mountains -- so did the idea of resurrection. The other life, which at first repeated this exactly, became more and more unlike it, and from an adjacent spot passed to the distant place of the future. These beings, to whom was ascribed the power of making themselves at one time visible and at another invisible, became gradually omnipresent. "With the development of the doctrine of ghosts grew up an easy solution of all those changes which the heavens and earth are hourly exhibiting. Clouds that gather and vanish, shooting stars, sudden darkening of the water's surface by a breeze, storms, earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, etc., were attributed to departed souls, probably acting as officials for an angered deity. Thus arose ancestor worship, prayer, deities, etc.
Ghosts are just another superstition handed down from our primitive ancestors? Sounds quite reasonable. And humans are very good at making the evidence (such as it is) fit the belief. |
The foundation of morality is to . . . give up pretending to believe that for which there is no evidence, and repeating unintelligible propositions about things beyond the possibliities of knowledge.
T. H. Huxley
The Cattle Prod of Enlightened Compassion
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| Edited by - R.Wreck on 02/03/2005 19:04:52 |
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