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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9698 Posts |
 Posted - 02/01/2005 : 20:08:12 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by latinijral
I am accusing you of fear , just fear to face the truth.
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
Well, claiming Randi is a fraud is a complaint. Or do you simply not understand the word? Besides which, Randi is no sacred cow. Not to anyone I'm aware of here
Are you speaking in the name of everybody?Wow.
I can't speak for anyone but myself in this question, and to me Randi is not a sacred cow.
Consequently, we now know Dave does speak for at least one more person than himself.
quote:
quote:
More importantly, you've again failed to answer the most-important question: If you're correct in your assertions, what would you have us do about it? How do you think I should change my life or my world view based upon an assumption that James Randi has committed fraud?
Just learn abouth the truth.Simple.
Elaborate what you think is the truth, and the reasons why you think it's the truth. If we are to learn "the truth" and you're the one who has it, why don't you educate us?
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
| Edited by - Dr. Mabuse on 02/01/2005 20:25:09 |
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satans_mom
Skeptic Friend
USA
148 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2005 : 20:15:19 [Permalink]
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So what about this video? What is the black dot supposed to be? What scholarship? Some girl named Moe Faux?
What happened? |
Yo mama's so fat, she's on both sides of the family.
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2005 : 20:35:27 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by latinijral
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
quote:
Originally posted by latinijral
Believers usual think there is a complain when they sacred cows are touched.
Well, claiming Randi is a fraud is a complaint. Or do you simply not understand the word? Besides which, Randi is no sacred cow. Not to anyone I'm aware of here
Are you speaking in the name of everybody?Wow.
Listen, latinijral. First, note that he said "not to anyone I'm aware of here"-- thus, Dave was saying that among the people he's familiar with, none of them have publicall or privately said that Randi is a "sacred cow." This certainly does not imply "everybody."
Second, in case you haven't noticed, Dave has posted at this site more than anyone else. He's also a site administrator. Thus, it's likely that he's more familiar with the general public sentiment than anyone else here. So Dave's saying that he's not aware of people at SFN treating Randi like a "sacred cow" is a strong statement. This is especially ture in light of the fact that a) no one here has stated (in this or any other thread) that they consider Randi as such, and b) you have failed to provide any proof that people here hold Randi in such high esteem. Indeed, it appears that most the what you have asserted here is little more than fucking bull shit backed up with nothing but lies and exaggerations. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2005 : 20:36:59 [Permalink]
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quote:
What is the black dot supposed to be?
Some poor delusional moron submited that "dot" to JREF as proof of the supernatural.
Now, his friend is persuing some crazed vendetta agianst Randi and making up cliams of fraud.
All because his retarded friend was laughed at when he presented a blurry videotape with a dot on it as evidence of the supernatural and expected to claim the $1M.
quote:
What scholarship? Some girl named Moe Faux?
According to latinijral, JREF gave a $5k scholarship to a woman who uses the internet name MoeFaux.
For some yet unexplained reason this is, I think in latinijral's head, somehow fraudulent.
In a nutshell, the guy comes here and calls Randi names, says he gave a girl $5k, says it's a bad thing. He has nothing but unsupported claims, he can't even offer evidence that any such money was given, and he can't explain how it would be fraudulent if it was given.
He's probably banned from JREF so he's out roaming the internet spamming any skeptic forums with his nonsense.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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satans_mom
Skeptic Friend
USA
148 Posts |
Posted - 02/01/2005 : 22:18:04 [Permalink]
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I'm with filthy here. Now that I *somewhat* understand what is going on, I realize it was pointless for me to get involved in the first place. Thanks for the explanation Dude.
I skimmed the James Randi Shit Idol post and didn't absorb any of that information. Probably because I couldn't possibly pay attention to such cacophony of words. Who is James Randi anyway? I know he submits stuff for Skeptic Magazine (I think it's the same guy anyway), but if he's such a sacred cow that he is made out to be like latinjral says, why don't I know about him? |
Yo mama's so fat, she's on both sides of the family.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26034 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2005 : 00:09:46 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by latinijral
I am accusing you of fear , just fear to face the truth.
What "truth?" That Randi spent the JREF's money inappropriately in one instance? So what? I've got no illusions that Randi is a saint. Again, answer the question I've asked you: What would you have me do if I agreed with you that your assertion is correct?quote:
Fanatism usually look to only one side.Read again and you will find who was insulted...
Oh, I know that you were insulted, as well, but I closed the thread because nothing was being posted but insults, anymore. It was completely unproductive.quote:
...and you also learned something new about that schoolarship. You even wrote you will investigate it.
And I have been doing so, but it would help a lot if you could just spell out what you expect me to find. Looking for the "truth" would be a whole lot easier if those who know it already (such as yourself) would just point to it instead of being obtuse.quote:
Are you speaking in the name of everybody?Wow.
No. I said that I was unaware of anyone here who so adores Randi. Anyone here who thinks that Randi's shit don't stink can speak up, if they so choose.quote:
Just learn abouth the truth.Simple.
That fails to answer the question.
[Hours of reading later...]
Here is the "truth" as I can discover it:- MoeFaux (MF from now on) was once a stripper
- MF was either a friend, girlfriend, or personal assistant to Penn
- MF was an intern at JREF for several weeks
- MF's internship was paid for entirely by Penn
- At the end of her internship, MF was given a scholarship for the "promise" she showed
- At the time, the JREF Board of Directors allowed Randi to give scholarships to whomever he deemed worthy
- Despite what I earlier read about 501(c)(3) restrictions, if Randi's scholarship power was granted by the Board, the IRS will not be investigating at all
- Two scholarships were given that year, and neither were applied for (they were both "surprises" from Randi to interns)
- Nobody had applied for scholarships for several years prior, either
- MF drove James Randi for at least one trip in Penn's car at TAM 2
- MF's scholarship allowed her to at least partially pay for a semester of film school
- MF required some sort of surgery
- The surgery required her to quit her job for a month
- Due to bad financial planning on her part, she dipped into her scholarship to pay expenses due to her surgery
- Many scholarships pay for things other than what they should
- The JREF placed no constraints on what she could do with her scholarship money
- Many scholarships have no constraints upon how they are used
- MF's ex-boyfriend (not Penn) brought parts of the above up in a thread at the JREF forums
- He specifically said he thought the bestowing of a scholarship to MF was unethical, and not fraudulent
- He later clarified his position, blaming sloppy money management on the JREF's part, and suggested ways in which the JREF's scholarship money could be safeguarded from being misspent
- Other people were pissed off because they felt there were more deserving people who "should" have gotten the scholarship money
- They had made no attempt to apply for any previous year's scholarships
- They decided that their money would be better spent on their own children, instead of at the whims of Randi
- Still other people were only angered by the lack of "transparency" in how donation money is spent (some of whom were not donors themselves)
- Nobody offered any sound reason why MF should not have received the scholarship
- A few JREF employees said it was a very good idea
- Nobody seems to be blaming James Randi for any of this situation, except for latinijral, and one JREF member (now, presumably, an ex-JREF member) who seems to have assumed that MF screwed her way to a scholarship
Now, just how do I get from this pile of facts, latinijral, to the conclusion that "James Randi is a fraud?" You're going to have to connect the dots for me, because right now it all looks like this evening's reading has been a huge fucking waste of my goddammed fucking time.
By the way, satans_mom, here is a link to the James Randi Educational Foundation's web site. I think it would be highly ironic that at least one more person were made aware of Randi and his efforts for skepticism due to latinijral's attempts at whipping up a shitstorm.
And filthy, the consensus of those who've seen the actual footage is that the "smudge" is a bird flying within a couple hundred yards or so of the camera. Especially since no other camera can be found which recorded the smudge, and you know by that time, there were dozens - if not thousands - of cameras trained on that building. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2005 : 02:37:28 [Permalink]
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Your patience for research of the ridiculous has much greater depth than mine. I quit caring about the Moefaux saga somewhere around the beginning third of the original thread.
quote:
And filthy, the consensus of those who've seen the actual footage is that the "smudge" is a bird flying within a couple hundred yards or so of the camera. Especially since no other camera can be found which recorded the smudge, and you know by that time, there were dozens - if not thousands - of cameras trained on that building.
That's interesting, and as good an explanation as any. But it's so blurry (many if not most photos of the inexplicable are, I've noticed) that there is no way to be sure.
With that and the million dollar prize in mind, would not a rather clumsy attempt at outright fraud be another distinct possibility?
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2005 : 08:39:00 [Permalink]
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Filthy the stills are very blurred as is typical with stills from a video. I have seen the actual video (I'll be damned if I can remember where it was) and let me assure you it was clearly a bird. On the video there are birds also flying by before and after the bird that latin thinks is a ghost or UFO or whatever.
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If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2005 : 09:09:34 [Permalink]
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Here are some really crappy videos of a birds flying in front of a camera during the filming of 9/11.
This first one is actually a short part of the video that latin is pointing to in his quest.
http://www.websamba.com/believenothing/mpgs/wtcufoa.mpg
Here is another bird that some people are inexplicably calling a UFO:
http://www.websamba.com/believenothing/mpgs/wtcufob.mpg
On the longer version of latins video, which I can't seem to find, there are other birds flying around before and after the segment shown. This is a hellova thing to base a crusade on...
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If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26034 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2005 : 09:17:23 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
Your patience for research of the ridiculous has much greater depth than mine. I quit caring about the Moefaux saga somewhere around the beginning third of the original thread.
Call me dutiful. Or a masochist. Whatever. Thanks. What I'll admit to is a certain curiosity that I might find some human drama of which I was unaware, and it's more the teasing hints of something big I got when I first began looking that compelled me to look deeper. But, ultimately, I was disappointed. Of course, if latinijral actually knows of something "shocking" with which to pique my sense of schadenfreude, he has but to point it out. I won't be holding my breath.quote:
That's interesting, and as good an explanation as any. But it's so blurry (many if not most photos of the inexplicable are, I've noticed) that there is no way to be sure.
The video has been analyzed to death already. Analysis has revealed what is probably wing flapping.
Edited to add: I see that furshur has a much better handle on what's in the video(s) than I. What he said.quote:
With that and the million dollar prize in mind, would not a rather clumsy attempt at outright fraud be another distinct possibility?
The original video came from an ABC affiliate station, if I'm not mistaken, and their copy shows the fuzzy blob, too. They have not tried to claim the prize. More importantly, nobody should have tried to claim the prize for this video as it is not something which can be "tested under controlled situations." Only such "paranormal" events or abilities which can be so tested are elligible for the million bucks. So, even if it were fraud with an eye towards the money, it couldn't possibly have earned more than a "you've got no claim here," which is what it did receive. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2005 : 10:21:12 [Permalink]
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Did they repeal the 13th Amendment? Latinijral got OWNED then sold to a new owner. (Just returning the insults from page 1)
Quick Reminder: Dave Rocks! |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2005 : 12:46:34 [Permalink]
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Then I must ask again: what the fuck? What's all the shouting about, then?
There has been put forth exactly zilch evidence in support any claim at all. The only for-certain thing I have seen here is that somebody wears a less-than-Rolex wristwatch. Hell, I've got one of those, although I never wear it. Or even know where it is, at the moment. Or care.
I fear this thread is rapidly falling into the verlch catagory but much less fun.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26034 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2005 : 13:59:41 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
Then I must ask again: what the fuck? What's all the shouting about, then?
Well, with the video thing, Carlos apparently felt his honor had been somehow damaged by the manner of the JREF's rejection. Latinijral (apparently) was helping him out.
As for MoeFaux, the only thing I can think of is that latinijral drags her into the picture to attempt (and fail) to smear Randi with the shocker that he gave a scholarship to a stripper. Oooooh. Or, he tried to imply that it's some sort of money-laundering and/or kickback deal between Randi and Penn, but those scenarios are stretched to implausibility. At worst, it was a case of cronyism, but surely latinijral has worse things closer to home to worry about.quote:
I fear this thread is rapidly falling into the verlch catagory but much less fun.
It's already happened. Instead of zipping from one subject to another, latinijral is a one-trick pony. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2005 : 14:10:31 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
It's already happened. Instead of zipping from one subject to another, latinijral is a one-trick pony.
One trick? You're giving latinijral way too much credit. Half a trick, if that! |
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latinijral
Banned
197 Posts |
Posted - 02/03/2005 : 13:26:02 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
Here is the "truth" as I can discover it:- MoeFaux (MF from now on) was once a stripper
- MF was either a friend, girlfriend, or personal assistant to Penn
- MF was an intern at JREF for several weeks
- MF's internship was paid for entirely by Penn
- At the end of her internship, MF was given a scholarship for the "promise" she showed
- At the time, the JREF Board of Directors allowed Randi to give scholarships to whomever he deemed worthy
- Despite what I earlier read about 501(c)(3) restrictions, if Randi's scholarship power was granted by the Board, the IRS will not be investigating at all
- Two scholarships were given that year, and neither were applied for (they were both "surprises" from Randi to interns)
- Nobody had applied for scholarships for several years prior, either
- MF drove James Randi for at least one trip in Penn's car at TAM 2
- MF's scholarship allowed her to at least partially pay for a semester of film school
- MF required some sort of surgery
- The surgery required her to quit her job for a month
- Due to bad financial planning on her part, she dipped into her scholarship to pay expenses due to her surgery
- Many scholarships pay for things other than what they should
- The JREF placed no constraints on what she could do with her scholarship money
- Many scholarships have no constraints upon how they are used
- MF's ex-boyfriend (not Penn) brought parts of the above up in a thread at the JREF forums
- He specifically said he thought the bestowing of a scholarship to MF was unethical, and not fraudulent
- He later clarified his position, blaming sloppy money management on the JREF's part, and suggested ways in which the JREF's scholarship money could be safeguarded from being misspent
- Other people were pissed off because they felt there were more deserving people who "should" have gotten the scholarship money
- They had made no attempt to apply for any previous year's scholarships
- They decided that their money would be better spent on their own children, instead of at the whims of Randi
- Still other people were only angered by the lack of "transparency" in how donation money is spent (some of whom were not donors themselves)
- Nobody offered any sound reason why MF should not have received the scholarship
- A few JREF employees said it was a very good idea
- Nobody seems to be blaming James Randi for any of this situation, except for latinijral, and one JREF member (now, presumably, an ex-JREF member) who seems to have assumed that MF screwed her way to a scholarship
Now, just how do I get from this pile of facts, latinijral, to the conclusion that "James Randi is a fraud?" You're going to have to connect the dots for me, because right now it all looks like this evening's reading has been a huge fucking waste of my goddammed fucking time.
You made your points and your opinion about what happenned.
See? You didn't have to close the thread just beacuse some Randi's fanatics began to hijack the thread.
You should know also that the JREF schoolarship was ONLY for persons that made ana outstanding contribution to skepticism. Unless you consider that being ana stripper or Penn's girlfriend (70-20) is an outstanding contribution , then nothing happenned.
Being fraudulent is being unethical?
Is being unethical to "fix" an schoolarship to "new" rules is being fraudulent?
Something is smelling very bad and you are contributing with your piss off.
Randi , Uri , Carlos are just topics to be discussed as anyone , you just have to be relax.
carlos send his application in 2002. The JREF send a letter to Carlos in 2004. The JREF employees lied in their own forum after that "detali" was exposed by Carlos. Why?
He is not even in the list of the JREF prize applicants. Why?
Just fear.
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Father of the new skepticism
Cuneiformist "But yeah, I'm sick of latinijral. And his "new "skepticism"! |
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