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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 03/05/2005 : 04:10:18
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As this was found at the Discovery Institute, which has yet to discover much of anything, it's veracity in question.
But here 'tis, anyway:
quote:
Science's New Heresy Trial:
By: Gene Edward Veith
World Magazine
February 18, 2005
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Original Article
Science is typically praised as open-ended and free, pursuing the evidence wherever it leads. Scientific conclusions are falsifiable, open to further inquiry, and revised as new data emerge. Science is free of dogma, intolerance, censorship, and persecution.
By these standards, Darwinists have become the dogmatists. Scientists at the Smithsonian Institute, supported by American taxpayers, are punishing one of their own simply for publishing an article about Intelligent Design.
Stephen Meyer, who holds a Ph.D. from Cambridge and is a research fellow at the Discovery Institute, wrote an article titled "The Origin of Biological Information and the Higher Taxonomic Categories." As Mr. Meyer explained it to WORLD, his article deals with the so-called Cambrian explosion, that point in the fossil record in which dozens of distinct animal body forms suddenly spring into existence. Darwinists themselves, he showed through a survey of the literature, admit that they cannot explain this sudden diversity of form in so little time.
The link in the article describing the submitted paper is dead. I think I'll rub a google on World Magazine.
On edit, World Mag seems to be pretty straight-forward, except that virtually all of it's advertising is for religious products, books and the like. All of the stories I saw were off the wire and I didn't find any editorials.
Thus, it looks like Dembski is up to his old tricks of turning a shallow depression into a mountain.
Further edit (yeah, I know. I ought to do the whole, damned thing all at once. But where's the fun in that?): Aha! Now I see what has put the knot in Dembski's knickers! Dr. Myer is one of his own who has, in the past published such as Of Pandas and People.
quote:
In 1989 the first edition of Of Pandas and People was published as a supplementary high school text on biological origins. It was written to identify documented problems with the neo-Darwinian theory of evolution that is presented in most textbooks and to present alternate scientific theories.
A new edition was recently released that features, among other things, an expanded section on "The Scientific Case for Intelligent Design."
The book also features a new "Note to Teachers," written by OR managing editor Mark Hartwig and Whitworth College philosophy professor Stephen Meyer. In their chapter Hartwig and Meyer explain how teachers can use the intelligent design hypothesis to engage students and enhance their learning. The chapter also dispels several common misconceptions about intelligent design.
Lessee, what should I put in the next edit....?
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Edited by - filthy on 03/05/2005 04:43:50
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tomk80
SFN Regular
Netherlands
1278 Posts |
 Posted - 03/05/2005 : 11:06:35 [Permalink]
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There is currently a discussion running on this on christianforums. Here's what I can gather.
Meyer published a paper in the Proceedings of the biological society of Washington" called "The Origin of Biological Information and the Higher Taxonomic Categories" (link to the article). The Proceedings was subsequently heavily criticized for publishing the article, as it is a standard ID-paper, more apt for philosphy than for a science magazine. For a criticism of the paper, go here.
The Proceedings has subsequently released a statement that Richard Sternberg, the editor at that time, has placed the article without consulting any of the other editors. Sternberg maintains that the article was peer-reviewed, and that he did not have to consult other editors for publication.
Sternberg was already in the process of leaving the editorial board and handing over editorship to another editor who replaced him before controversy broke loose. However, his position as a researcher at the Smithsonian was compromised because of the article. Amongst others (it seems), his beliefs were questioned.
My personal position till now is that Sternberg's position as a researcher was rightfully called into question, if the article is really as bad as the panda's thumb says it is. I have yet to read the article, so I can't really comment on that yet. His beliefs should not have been called into question, although this is a harder one, as with creationists there is no such thing as a seperation of science and belief. However, Sternberg seems not to be a creationist or ID'er, so these last attacks might have been inappropriate. |
Tom
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll- |
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tomk80
SFN Regular
Netherlands
1278 Posts |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2005 : 21:45:15 [Permalink]
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| It's important to note (I say without reading the links supplied above - except that I read the Panda's Thumb stuff about this as it happened) that Sternberg, as a research fellow, is not, nor has he ever been, an employee of the Smithsonian. He's got research privileges there, yes, but contrary to what the IDists like to say as they try to portray this guy as persecuted, he has not been "fired" from the Smithsonian. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2005 : 02:50:18 [Permalink]
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Thanks for the links. Now that I've gone through them, I seem to vaguely recall reading the Thumb piece. Guess it didn't stick, possibly because I'd never heard of Meyer.
So, one of the IDiots actually got published in a refereed journal! Who'da thunk it could happen, even though it was through the back door.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2005 : 05:18:09 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
So, one of the IDiots actually got published in a refereed journal! Who'da thunk it could happen, even though it was through the back door.
It was through the back door, and shouldn't have been let in in the first place. Now the sneaky bastards have the opportunity to claim that they have been published in a peer-revieved journal, no matter how far the truth is stretched. (As if stretching the truth has ever been a concern of theirs).
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2005 : 06:48:50 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
quote:
Originally posted by filthy
So, one of the IDiots actually got published in a refereed journal! Who'da thunk it could happen, even though it was through the back door.
It was through the back door, and shouldn't have been let in in the first place. Now the sneaky bastards have the opportunity to claim that they have been published in a peer-revieved journal, no matter how far the truth is stretched. (As if stretching the truth has ever been a concern of theirs).
Yes, but having the full story with the reference to back it up, we can burn their collective ass with it. In spite of being published, the paper did not undergo any sort of a critical review, therefore, it has about the same scientific relevance as a Chick Tract.
Doc, wouldn't you love it if some misguided soul wuth the confidence of the intemperate came in here and tried to use it for an argument? 
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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tomk80
SFN Regular
Netherlands
1278 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2005 : 09:29:17 [Permalink]
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| I think Gladiatrix on Christianforums made a very interesting point of this in her post #82 (link. |
Tom
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll- |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2005 : 12:03:53 [Permalink]
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| I'm trying to sort this out. Is http://www.discovery.org/ supposed to be the peer reviewed journal? I see no credentials after any of their member's names. And from the looks of it, the "non partisan think tank" is another one of those disguised partisan and/or religious agenda sources, (though I don't see the religion right off I'm guessing it is there if I look harder). Put Institute after your name and give yourself instant authority. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2005 : 12:14:28 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by tomk80
I think Gladiatrix on Christianforums made a very interesting point of this in her post #82 (link.
An excellent point, I think.
But now that the paper is pretty much common knowledge, all I'm seeing is derogatory reviews.
As Gladiatrix said, time will tell, but I'll bet that the screed'll not be accepted by mainstream sicence.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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R.Wreck
SFN Regular
USA
1191 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2005 : 12:16:59 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal:
I'm trying to sort this out. Is http://www.discovery.org/ supposed to be the peer reviewed journal? I see no credentials after any of their member's names. And from the looks of it, the "non partisan think tank" is another one of those disguised partisan and/or religious agenda sources, (though I don't see the religion right off I'm guessing it is there if I look harder). Put Institute after your name and give yourself instant authority.
I think this page makes it pretty clear where they are coming from. It's a primer on how to "teach the controversy" regarding evolution.
You can also find this turd bit of deep thinking by Behe. |
The foundation of morality is to . . . give up pretending to believe that for which there is no evidence, and repeating unintelligible propositions about things beyond the possibliities of knowledge.
T. H. Huxley
The Cattle Prod of Enlightened Compassion
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2005 : 12:56:53 [Permalink]
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| Guess I'm a good guesser. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2005 : 13:21:06 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
I'm trying to sort this out. Is http://www.discovery.org/ supposed to be the peer reviewed journal? I see no credentials after any of their member's names. And from the looks of it, the "non partisan think tank" is another one of those disguised partisan and/or religious agenda sources, (though I don't see the religion right off I'm guessing it is there if I look harder). Put Institute after your name and give yourself instant authority.
The Discovery Institute definitly have an agenda. An Anti-Evolution agenda.
How about a quote from this link, a description of an upcoming event:
quote:
Weikart concludes that Darwinism played a key role not only in the rise of eugenics, but also in euthanasia, infanticide, abortion, and racial extermination, all ultimately embraced by the Nazis. He convincingly makes the disturbing argument that Hitler built his view of ethics on Darwinian principles rather than nihilistic ones.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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tomk80
SFN Regular
Netherlands
1278 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2005 : 13:41:33 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
I'm trying to sort this out. Is http://www.discovery.org/ supposed to be the peer reviewed journal? I see no credentials after any of their member's names. And from the looks of it, the "non partisan think tank" is another one of those disguised partisan and/or religious agenda sources, (though I don't see the religion right off I'm guessing it is there if I look harder). Put Institute after your name and give yourself instant authority.
No. The peer-reviewed journal was the [url="http://www.biolsocwash.org/]Proceedings of the Biological Society of Washington[/url]. However, the article was inquired after pretty often (at least, according to the DI). That is why the Discovery Institute posted it. |
Tom
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll- |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2005 : 14:49:48 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by R.Wreck
quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal:
I'm trying to sort this out. Is http://www.discovery.org/ supposed to be the peer reviewed journal? I see no credentials after any of their member's names. And from the looks of it, the "non partisan think tank" is another one of those disguised partisan and/or religious agenda sources, (though I don't see the religion right off I'm guessing it is there if I look harder). Put Institute after your name and give yourself instant authority.
I think this page makes it pretty clear where they are coming from. It's a primer on how to "teach the controversy" regarding evolution.
You can also find this turd bit of deep thinking by Behe.
Behe is an over-educated idiot.
quote:
Phillip Johnson is quoted with approval by Behe and it is apparent from the review where he stands. Basically he wishes, like Behe, to entertain the possibility that what looks designed might be designed. This is called the argument from design. It is the same whether it is applied at the macroscopic or microscopic level. The exemplar of the form is William Paley's Natural Theology (1802) which Darwin read when he was considering whether or not to go to Cambridge with the intention of becoming a vicar. (He did go to Cambridge but he did not become a vicar!) The argument from design, following Paley, goes like this: if you find a watch you can infer the existence of a watchmaker and likewise if you find good design in nature you are entitled to infer the existence of a Designer. (Hence the title of Dawkins's book the Blind Watchmaker). Darwin used much of the material that appears in Paley's book while coming to a totally different conclusion as to how the good adaptation, the apparent design, could come about.
Behe's arguments are much the same as Paley's except that instead of talking about organisms he talks about cellular structure or biochemical processes and instead of talking about good design he talks about irreducible complexity and instead of God he postulates a Designer.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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