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lord_hevonen
New Member

30 Posts

Posted - 03/31/2005 :  00:00:29  Show Profile Send lord_hevonen a Private Message
The new report on the condition of our environment has once again fuelled these "this is why we should explore space travel" comments. What a load of BS.
If we ever could turn Earth into an environment worse than, say, Mars, which would be a bit hard, only a handful of people could be sent into the new planet. In Mars they would have build a shelter with an artificial environment, and that could just as well be built on the doomed Earth.
Let's just concentrate on finding solutions to the environmental problems, and continue the space exploration for other reasons.
[Moved to the General Skepticism folder - Dave W.]

beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 03/31/2005 :  00:22:30   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
It is a good point that a lot of folks talk about moving into space as our planet's resources get used up but the other planets we know about would be far more difficult to live on than this one for many years to come.

Hi new person.
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 03/31/2005 :  03:39:46   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
Greetings Dread Lord, and welcome to SFN!

I think that you are correct. Our species evolved to fit into this enviornment and none other. To colonize any planet with a different enviornment would have a huge cost in technology and rescources, and would probably fail in the long-term.

Sci-fi writers often populate the moon, earth orbits, and the asteroid belt with mini-habitates. It makes for fun fiction, but I don't think that's feasable, either.


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Starman
SFN Regular

Sweden
1613 Posts

Posted - 03/31/2005 :  04:45:05   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Starman a Private Message
If we can't protect the environment here were we evolved, going to other worlds is quite pointless.

I think it is the short time problems that prevents colonization today.
How do you earn money buy forming a colony on mars?
You could do interesting research, but to what gain?
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9682 Posts

Posted - 03/31/2005 :  06:50:57   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message
Space exploration is not as big a waste of money as WAR. Just look at how much money has already been wasted by America in Iraq...

Pretty much complete colonies on both moon and Mars.
Spending money on Space Exploration is not the problem: It's the idiotic politicians in charge of the Nation's finances that are spending and legislating the wrong way.
The Kyoto deal was a step on the way, but Bush fucked that up. No, not fucked up, screw that one over.

People need to get rid of the kind of people in power who makes the wrong decisions.

(edited for spelling and grammar)

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
Edited by - Dr. Mabuse on 03/31/2005 07:27:46
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bloody_peasant
Skeptic Friend

USA
139 Posts

Posted - 03/31/2005 :  07:22:51   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send bloody_peasant a Yahoo! Message Send bloody_peasant a Private Message
I think one of the arguments for such populations is more about a large meteor or other celestial object striking Earth and causing massive extinction thus the moon, mars, etc. colony can preserve our species beyond such a massive extinction, which does appear to happen every so often on Earth. I'm sure there are however woo-woo's out there making these arguments though.

Edited to add disclaimer -
I'm not saying this should be a big reason for us to go out and starting building colonies on Mars when there are a lot more pressing matters here on Earth, although a rapture to Mars to get away from the loonies on Earth might be pleasing >:-D. I just wanted to point out there is at least one somewhat logical argument for eventual research into such matters to preserve our species assumnig we don't go extinct on our own accounts >:-D
Edited by - bloody_peasant on 03/31/2005 07:25:49
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 03/31/2005 :  07:33:27   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message
The gains in science and our overall knowledge are enough reason to contiue a vigorous space exploration program.

Honestly, I can't recall having ever heard the idea that we should seek to colonize other worlds because we are screwing this one up.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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NGR
New Member

Australia
9 Posts

Posted - 03/31/2005 :  18:57:51   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send NGR a Private Message
quote:
The gains in science and our overall knowledge are enough reason to contiue a vigorous space exploration program.



I agree.Pushing the boundaries of science and technology usually has beneficial spinoffs for society in general. Besides it is part of human makeup to explore our surroundings and going into space is simply part of this.

quote:
Honestly, I can't recall having ever heard the idea that we should seek to colonize other worlds because we are screwing this one up.



Yep me neither. It will be sometime before we have a permanent base on the Moon or Mars and then it will be a small scientific outpost. Any significant population on another solar system body would require some economic reason for being there and none is apparent at the moment.
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9682 Posts

Posted - 03/31/2005 :  20:47:21   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message
http://www.permanent.com/

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
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Starman
SFN Regular

Sweden
1613 Posts

Posted - 04/01/2005 :  00:09:21   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Starman a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dude

The gains in science and our overall knowledge are enough reason to contiue a vigorous space exploration program.
Yes, but somebody has to take care of the bill.
I wouldn't mind if more of my tax crowns were spent on space exploration, but unfortunately too many of my fellow tax payers seems to have this weird obsession with non-science things.


Edited by - Starman on 04/01/2005 00:56:29
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Plyss
Skeptic Friend

Netherlands
231 Posts

Posted - 04/01/2005 :  01:18:56   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Plyss a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by NGR

Yep me neither. It will be sometime before we have a permanent base on the Moon or Mars and then it will be a small scientific outpost.



We'd better hurry or there won't be a Moon left to land on!
Apollo bacteria spur lunar erosion
quote:

One thing on which experts agree is that the Moon's disintegration would be a disaster, as tides on Earth would effectively stop. "This really would be bad for us," comments Pete Swell of the World Surfers' Association. "Life would sure be a lot less fun. And I guess, like, fish and ecosystems might totally be affected too."



quote:

The images of the Moon were captured on 1 April by the Floating Optical Orbital Lens, as part of a multinational effort to photograph the Apollo landing sites. The mission aims to prove, once and for all and at fantastic expense, that the NASA astronauts really did go there.



It's in Nature, so it's true.
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 04/01/2005 :  03:24:15   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Plyss

quote:
Originally posted by NGR

Yep me neither. It will be sometime before we have a permanent base on the Moon or Mars and then it will be a small scientific outpost.



We'd better hurry or there won't be a Moon left to land on!
Apollo bacteria spur lunar erosion
quote:

One thing on which experts agree is that the Moon's disintegration would be a disaster, as tides on Earth would effectively stop. "This really would be bad for us," comments Pete Swell of the World Surfers' Association. "Life would sure be a lot less fun. And I guess, like, fish and ecosystems might totally be affected too."



quote:

The images of the Moon were captured on 1 April by the Floating Optical Orbital Lens, as part of a multinational effort to photograph the Apollo landing sites. The mission aims to prove, once and for all and at fantastic expense, that the NASA astronauts really did go there.



It's in Nature, so it's true.

Excellent; very excellent! I have wondered if, and suspected that we have contaminated our moon during the landings. It is good, if chilling, to see these suspicions confirmed. Now we must start repairs.

I have read of a device (fictional, I admit) thought up during WW-II called the LePage Glue Gun. This defensive weapon could, theoreticly, glue an entire bomber squadron together in mid-flight, and cause them to crash en masse. I think that it is time to revive that idea.

Of course, a cannon as such probably couldn't be made to work, but an exploding moon lander(s) could spread the glue over wide areas, thus repairing the moon. And a load of Neosporin could be carried and distributed as well, effectivly killing the offending bacteria.

Perhaps the Anit-Missle Defence System boondoggle could be modified and pressed into useful service.

We should get started on this right away. In a few years it might be too late, but our drag-heels leaders will probably discount the danger and never fund it, prefering instead to spend the money on legislation and programs such as those to protect the dead from dying, and killing as many other people as possible.


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

Edited by - filthy on 04/01/2005 03:29:37
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way
New Member

USA
35 Posts

Posted - 04/01/2005 :  06:57:57   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send way a Private Message
I'm always one for a good spoof but unfortunately these stories tend to take on a life of their own long after they have been forgotten by those with a few brain cells. I think the disclaimer should be at the top of the story and not in the fine print.

quote:
* Well done for spotting, as we're sure you did, that this story is not in fact true. News@nature.com would like to assure readers that, outside the realm of April Fool's Day, the Moon remains bacteria-free until anyone proves otherwise.
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 04/01/2005 :  07:52:27   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by way

I'm always one for a good spoof but unfortunately these stories tend to take on a life of their own long after they have been forgotten by those with a few brain cells. I think the disclaimer should be at the top of the story and not in the fine print.

quote:
* Well done for spotting, as we're sure you did, that this story is not in fact true. News@nature.com would like to assure readers that, outside the realm of April Fool's Day, the Moon remains bacteria-free until anyone proves otherwise.


Aw contrary, friend way. What good is it to spoof if everyone gets it right away? Where's the fun in that?

If all goes well, this'll provide everybody with enough amusement to last until next 4/01. Besides which, any rocket scientist not realizing it's April Fool's and it's all a gag, deserves no better.

Sez I, print the disclaimer finer!


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Starman
SFN Regular

Sweden
1613 Posts

Posted - 04/01/2005 :  08:00:51   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Starman a Private Message
Why disclaimers, when we have natural selection?
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chaloobi
SFN Regular

1620 Posts

Posted - 04/01/2005 :  08:15:05   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send chaloobi a Yahoo! Message Send chaloobi a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by lord_hevonen

The new report on the condition of our environment has once again fuelled these "this is why we should explore space travel" comments. What a load of BS.
If we ever could turn Earth into an environment worse than, say, Mars, which would be a bit hard, only a handful of people could be sent into the new planet. In Mars they would have build a shelter with an artificial environment, and that could just as well be built on the doomed Earth.
Let's just concentrate on finding solutions to the environmental problems, and continue the space exploration for other reasons.
[Moved to the General Skepticism folder - Dave W.]

The idea of the human species living anywhere but Earth as an alternative to living on Earth because of environmental damage is ludicrous. As you point out, Earth would have to be pretty fucked up in order to make Mars - the most Earth like world in our solar system - an attractive alternative. However, this does not mean that space colonization for other reasons is a bad idea. It is my personal belief that spreading life - human or otherwise - to other worlds, including those around stars other than Sol, is the greatest thing the human species will ever do; or fail to do.

-Chaloobi

Edited by - chaloobi on 04/01/2005 08:18:35
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