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 Long, sharp, pointy thingies....
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 05/27/2005 :  01:21:23  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
Hah! I'd like to see them enforce this one!

quote:
A&E doctors are calling for a ban on long pointed kitchen knives to reduce deaths from stabbing.

A team from West Middlesex University Hospital said violent crime is on the increase - and kitchen knives are used in as many as half of all stabbings.

They argued many assaults are committed impulsively, prompted by alcohol and drugs, and a kitchen knife often makes an all too available weapon.

The research is published in the British Medical Journal.


It is beyond doubt that a kitchen knife makes an excellent weapon, even better than a firearm, which are notoriously unreliable at arm's reach ranges. However, I don't see any way for a ban to be enforced and further, I doubt that it would make a lot of difference. People will continue to hack and stab at each other with whatever's at hand, and a certain percentage of these disputes will be fatal.

A good point (chuckle) in the article is made that a sharp point (snicker) on most, large kitchen knives is not really needed. My boning knives, for example, are mainly the ones where I use the point, and they are tiny, meat-cutting blades. Knives like the so-called 'chef's,' with a large, wide blade used mostly for chopping, certainly don't need one. Utility and filet knives on the other hand, do.

Years ago, A shipmate of mine died from a stab wound. He was hit in the spine with a large, wood chisel.

In my admittedly biased opinion, this is yet another well-meaning but futile attempt to protect us from ourselves.



"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9677 Posts

Posted - 05/27/2005 :  05:35:16   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message
Some people just can't handle their temper, and alcohol does not have to be a factor either. One of my former classmates managed to puncture the lung of a coworker with a power drill in a fit of rage. He got mad and just grabbed the closest available thing without registering what it was until it was too late.

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 05/27/2005 :  05:44:34   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message
quote:
I don't see any way for a ban to be enforced and further, I doubt that it would make a lot of difference. People will continue to hack and stab at each other with whatever's at hand, and a certain percentage of these disputes will be fatal.



Next up, baseball bats and trees to be banned!

People kill people. To blame the inanimate objects used as tools is a massive fallacy of logic.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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pleco
SFN Addict

USA
2996 Posts

Posted - 05/27/2005 :  05:59:02   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit pleco's Homepage Send pleco a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dude
People kill people. To blame the inanimate objects used as tools is a massive fallacy of logic.



Same argument used by opponents of gun control. While it is true that it takes alot to get an inanimate object angry enough to hurt someone, isn't also true that providing easier access to certain objects will enable people to kill people faster, better, and cheaper? I ask sincerely, I do not have a particular stance on gun control except my personal opinion of never having a gun.

by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart.
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bloody_peasant
Skeptic Friend

USA
139 Posts

Posted - 05/27/2005 :  06:07:09   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send bloody_peasant a Yahoo! Message Send bloody_peasant a Private Message
Nerf, the whole world will be legislated to Nerf. Its all part of their plan for world domination, only then they will realize you put an eye out with that.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26012 Posts

Posted - 05/27/2005 :  06:40:23   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
At first, I was expecting the BMJ article to be dated April 1, but it's not. However, it's also not "research," but instead an editorial.

The authors, of course, are throwing up their hands and saying "we can't do anything about abuse of drugs (including alcohol), or domestic and societal violence, so here is our suggestion about how to make such activities less deadly." What a bunch of defeatist schmucks.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 05/27/2005 :  07:11:05   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
It's quite a bit different from the gun control question, I think. Most knives are highly spedalized tools (my knife rack looks like a midieval mini-armory). The little boning knives are a prime example. Virtually all of the work is done with the first 3/4'' of the blade; the very tip. Needless to say, they are all kept extremly sharp and even the little ones would deal a ghastly wound if called upon to do so.

Firearms, on the other had, are intended for making meat, not butchering it. I've always enjoyed the shooting sports, although I've never been much of a hunter. I keep a loaded pistol, a Colt 1911-A, .45 ACP if you must know, in the bedroom. And I hand-load my ammunition. I do not support firearm bans, although in some places such as heavily populated, metropolitan areas, some regulation might be necessary. The current laws are more than sufficient, and we could afford to lose a few of those.

But in short, they ain't a'grindin' the points off my knives, law or no law, and I have no doubt that our British cousins feel the same way. The ban won't fly except maybe for switch and gravity blades, and those are probably already illegal.


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

Edited by - filthy on 05/27/2005 07:19:38
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 05/27/2005 :  07:26:26   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message
quote:
While it is true that it takes alot to get an inanimate object angry enough to hurt someone, isn't also true that providing easier access to certain objects will enable people to kill people faster, better, and cheaper?


No. Especially in domestic situations, as these are "heat of the moment" things. If no inanimate object is readily at hand, then hands and feet substitute.

Few things are "better" for close in fighting than a good knife and/or small club.

Cheaper? Kitchen knife- $20 .38 snubnose revolver- $200 and up.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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pleco
SFN Addict

USA
2996 Posts

Posted - 05/27/2005 :  07:36:26   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit pleco's Homepage Send pleco a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dude

No. Especially in domestic situations, as these are "heat of the moment" things. If no inanimate object is readily at hand, then hands and feet substitute.

Few things are "better" for close in fighting than a good knife and/or small club.

Cheaper? Kitchen knife- $20 .38 snubnose revolver- $200 and up.



"faster better cheaper" - tongue in cheek reference to NASA's motto - I couldn't resist.

by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart.
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Dik-Dik Van Dik
Skeptic Friend

United Kingdom
76 Posts

Posted - 05/27/2005 :  07:48:00   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dik-Dik Van Dik a Private Message
they should just ban anger. Banning weapons is like treating the symptoms annd not the infection.

DARWIN 3:16
"The simple believeth every word." - Proverbs 14:15
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13467 Posts

Posted - 05/27/2005 :  08:43:48   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message
If I was preparing a good, ummmm, stuffed chicken breast, that involves making a pocket in the breast, which I couldn't do without a pointed fillet knife, I am sure that not being able to make that dish would throw me into blind rage and I would probably lash out at anyone near me. The very idea of ruining my knives, and therefore, my dinners, poses a danger to the very lives of anyone near me. Especially when I start throwing the knives across the room out of frustration.

And there is a point to having a point on a chef's knife. I often use the point to start a cut. Again, knives flying…

I think ruining our knives will cause a blood bath and an upswing in the felony convictions of gourmet cooks…

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 05/27/2005 :  10:47:40   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message
Don't forget about scissors.

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
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tw101356
Skeptic Friend

USA
333 Posts

Posted - 05/27/2005 :  11:52:33   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send tw101356 a Private Message
Don't forget about rolling pins (the French style ones are like billy clubs), frying pans, broken wine bottles, carving forks, steel ladles, meat tenderizers, or even an odd sock filled with knobs taken off the kitchen cabinets.

Ok, that last one isn't really a heat-of-the-moment type weapon.

- TW
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 05/27/2005 :  12:31:24   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
Heh, if you want to see someone go ballistic, grab one of my meat knives and start whittling with it.

As has been pointed out, the number of potential weapons kicking around any residence is all but staggering. The bald end of a mere broom used as a thursting spear would end a fight very quickly, and has.

Kil, go down to the hardware store and get a Chicago Cutlery brand boning knife. These little knives are perfect for opening a stuffing pocket. I have a couple of them and they get a lot of use. They are also excellent for paring.


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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skepticality
Skeptic Friend

USA
105 Posts

Posted - 05/27/2005 :  21:25:19   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit skepticality's Homepage Send skepticality a Private Message
quote:
Same argument used by opponents of gun control. While it is true that it takes alot to get an inanimate object angry enough to hurt someone, isn't also true that providing easier access to certain objects will enable people to kill people faster, better, and cheaper? I ask sincerely, I do not have a particular stance on gun control except my personal opinion of never having a gun.


I just have always felt that making something illegal, like firearms, doesn't solve anything. Restricting them does even less. Since the people that 'legally' own guns aren't using them in the manner you are trying to curtail. Someone that is out to use a gun for illegal activities, will just get his tools from an illegal source, and they often do now as well.

There is a grey area, however, in the statistics of accidental shootings. Surrounding kids, and such. Although, that's a lengthy discussion, a very lengthy one..

Derek Colanduno
host - skepticality
http://www.skepticality.com/
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 05/27/2005 :  21:45:53   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message
quote:
There is a grey area, however, in the statistics of accidental shootings. Surrounding kids, and such. Although, that's a lengthy discussion, a very lengthy one..


Yep. Mostly revolving around irresponsible gun owners.

It is entirely 100% possible to secure your firearms in a manner that would require the use of a significant ammount of force to unsecure them.

Anyone who has children and guns, or expects children not their own in their house, has an obligation to secure their firearms. Personally I own a gunsafe, and only I know the combo for the door. When family or friends visit with children, all guns not in my personal control (i.e. in my hand or holster attached to my body) are placed inside, door closed and locked. Most times that is where all but one of my guns live anyway. And teach your kids basic gun safety as soon as they are old enough to comprehend it. See a gun, don't touch it and get a parent instantly. When they are old enough to handle a gun, teach them to empty and clear any gun found sitting out. When I was little I learned that any and every gun was "loaded" unless you personally inspect the breech. Including a weapon that you just watched somebody unload. It is loaded until you personally verify it. That has stuck with me since the first time I ever picked up a gun. Kids are far from stupid, and you can impress the importance of these things on them fairly easily.

There are a couple fo lengthy threads on the gun-topic here in the SFN forums. One is fairly recent. (month or so old at this point).

I did like an idea presented by one of our members (beskeptigal, I think). If you have kids, just tell them to make up an excuse and leave if they are at a friends (or anywhere for that matter) house and they see a gun anywhere, lying around or in anyones hands. Just a fact that not all gun owners are responsible, and with kids it is better safe than sorry.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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