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the_ignored
SFN Addict

2557 Posts

Posted - 07/10/2005 :  22:03:31  Show Profile Send the_ignored a Private Message
Some bad news from the people at New Scientist

quote:
In Turkey there is a strong creationist movement, sparked initially by contact with US creationists. Since 1999, when Turkish professors who taught evolution were harassed and threatened, there is no longer public opposition to creationism, which is all that is presented in school texts. In another Muslim country, Pakistan, evolution is no longer taught in universities.

Fundamentalist Christianity is also sweeping Africa and Latin America. Last year Brazilian scientists protested when Rio de Janeiro's education department started teaching creationism in religious education classes.

The fear among creationism's critics is that a pattern is emerging that will culminate in a new wave of creationist teaching. They are worried that this will undermine science education and science's place in society. "The politicisation of science has increased at all levels," says Miller. "What is happening is a political effort to force a change in the content and nature of science itself."

>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.

What brought that on? this. Original posting here.

Another example of this guy's lunacy here.

pleco
SFN Addict

USA
2996 Posts

Posted - 07/11/2005 :  06:26:29   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit pleco's Homepage Send pleco a Private Message
Anyone sense a new Dark Age coming?

by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart.
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Siberia
SFN Addict

Brazil
2322 Posts

Posted - 07/11/2005 :  06:27:41   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Siberia's Homepage  Send Siberia an AOL message  Send Siberia a Yahoo! Message Send Siberia a Private Message
As far as I know (admittedly, not much), it died before it was born. The protest was effective. Problem is, both the governor and mayor are religious junkies. They'd probably let it slide in, later on.

Somebody please take me out of here?

"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa

"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 07/11/2005 :  08:34:31   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message
There is no escape from Jesusland as, "The world is made for man and man is made to conquer and rule it." a famous gorrilla once said.

"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 07/11/2005 :  13:45:13   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
It certainly seems to be the opposite of the 60s and 70s free sex and enlightenment. More than just the US corporate controlled media, the trend seems to be gaining worldwide. That isn't very encouraging especially given the Christianity/Islam growing divide and disdain for each other.
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 07/11/2005 :  15:41:49   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by pleco

Anyone sense a new Dark Age coming?



Ever since Bush took office.

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
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Maverick
Skeptic Friend

Sweden
385 Posts

Posted - 07/11/2005 :  15:54:34   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Maverick a Private Message
And the EU is actually considering Turkey as a future member state. I was against it before, and even more so now. They're nowhere near ready to join. And now this? Why is this crap spreading all over the world? Can we stop it? Probably not, so at least we should try and keep it out of some areas that can still be saved from this disease.

"Life is but a momentary glimpse of the wonder of this astonishing universe, and it is sad to see so many dreaming it away on spiritual fantasy." -- Carl Sagan
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Siberia
SFN Addict

Brazil
2322 Posts

Posted - 07/11/2005 :  16:05:23   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Siberia's Homepage  Send Siberia an AOL message  Send Siberia a Yahoo! Message Send Siberia a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Maverick

And the EU is actually considering Turkey as a future member state. I was against it before, and even more so now. They're nowhere near ready to join. And now this? Why is this crap spreading all over the world? Can we stop it? Probably not, so at least we should try and keep it out of some areas that can still be saved from this disease.


I don't know. But it's depressing.

"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa

"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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HYBRID
BANNED

USA
344 Posts

Posted - 07/11/2005 :  19:32:35   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HYBRID a Private Message
Why are there no alternatives to creation AND evolution?
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13462 Posts

Posted - 07/11/2005 :  19:58:26   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by HYBRID

Why are there no alternatives to creation AND evolution?

Suggest one...

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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HYBRID
BANNED

USA
344 Posts

Posted - 07/11/2005 :  20:55:38   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HYBRID a Private Message
Intervention. Many others.
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard

USA
4574 Posts

Posted - 07/11/2005 :  21:00:56   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send H. Humbert a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by HYBRID

Intervention. Many others.

By "invention" I think you mean Intelligent Design. Aliens made us in a laboratory, that sort of thing, right? Except that someone had to "invent" the aliens, so we're back to a supernatural creator again.


"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman

"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie
Edited by - H. Humbert on 07/11/2005 21:04:15
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 07/11/2005 :  22:09:37   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by HYBRID

Why are there no alternatives to creation AND evolution?



quote:
Originally posted by HYBRID

Intervention. Many others.



The obvious answer to your question, as you have answered it, is that there are alternatives. Those are just less popular.

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
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moakley
SFN Regular

USA
1884 Posts

Posted - 07/12/2005 :  04:40:30   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send moakley a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by HYBRID

Why are there no alternatives to creation AND evolution?

Without data to support a creation model, it is not much of an alternative.
quote:
Originally posted by HYBRID

Intervention. Many others.

Is this based upon your personal reality or can you define intervention (that we can agree on) and support it through empirical evidence.

Life is good

Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 07/12/2005 :  05:12:13   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
Alternatives? Sure, why not?

The problem arises when evidential support for other than the ToE is sought and none is to be found. Thus, they are all conjectural, and I include 'special creation' in that statement. Conjecture is a good thing, but only if it can gain at least enough support to become an hypothesis.


"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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HYBRID
BANNED

USA
344 Posts

Posted - 07/12/2005 :  11:55:37   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HYBRID a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by H. Humbert

quote:
Originally posted by HYBRID

Intervention. Many others.

By "invention" I think you mean Intelligent Design. Aliens made us in a laboratory, that sort of thing, right? Except that someone had to "invent" the aliens, so we're back to a supernatural creator again.

Please quit generalizing my thoughts, which you have not heard much of. What is supernatural about et's? Nothing. Just 'science' we have yet to discover right?


Edited by - HYBRID on 07/12/2005 12:01:08
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