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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
 Posted - 07/14/2005 : 18:27:15 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by pleco
Trish, that won't matter.
Yes, unfortunately, I do understand this.
quote:
If I understand correctly, HYBRID states that all evidence is subjective unless you physically perform the experiment or see it yourself personally. If you just read about it or listen to someone (college professor perhaps), then it may be (and possibly is) falsified and is therefore unreliable. And since we do not possess the ability to go back in time, evolution is unprovable by that standard.
And, in order to justify his own philosophy, HYBRID states that he did not come to his perspective by believing what he has been told or what he has read. Which, logically speaking, means that he has physically seen the things that he states is true. This would include the "mystery schools", Illumanati, etc. I must assume that HYBRID has firsthand witnessed those things and lived to tell about it.
Hmm, I didn't understand HYBRID to call himself any type of empiricist. I understood that he was a complete subjectivist. In which case, the only evidence that matters is that which you choose to believe, whether objectively correct or incorrect.
quote:
Further, it is useless to ask HYBRID for any sources to backup his thoughts, since such sources can be falsified and are subjective.
Hence, there are no set of rules that can be used to evaluate information gleaned from books, others' experience, or even scientific methodology unless one were to perform such experiments themselves. But any information derived could not be shared with anyone; they would have to perform the same experiments themselves.
Yes, I had noticed.
quote:
I have to conclude, then, that HYBRID has not personally seen any of the things that he states as being true. Therefore, what he says is easily dismissed.
I would have to agree with you in part. I still don't see that HYBRID is an empiricist of any sort. Empiricism seems to support the concept of an objective reality, at least in part. That he calls himself a subjectivist would lead me to the conclusion that what he says is easily dismissed after appropriate consideration. Since the majority of his statements fail logically, the dismisal process is not terribly protracted.
edited because I'm an idiot when it comes to the code thing that makes the quotes work so wonderfully well. |
...no one has ever found a 4.5 billion year old stone artifact (at the right geological stratum) with the words "Made by God."
No Sense of Obligation by Matt Young
"Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith. I consider the capacity for it terrifying and vile!"
Mother Night by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
They (Women Marines) don't have a nickname, and they don't need one. They get their basic training in a Marine atmosphere, at a Marine Post. They inherit the traditions of the Marines. They are Marines.
LtGen Thomas Holcomb, USMC
Commandant of the Marine Corps, 1943
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| Edited by - Trish on 07/14/2005 18:29:36 |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2005 : 18:44:55 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by HYBRID
Your avatar says it all. Beating the hell out of someone. What kind of shit is that?
Beating the hell out of someone? Actually, my icon doesn't show what the guy is punching. It could be kittens, or a terrorist, or a sofa cushion. People tend to see in it what they choose, which is one of the reasons why I like it. So you saw a person in my icon who wasn't actually there. Hmm...
Hybrid, have you ever had to seek counseling or treatment for psychological reasons? Are you currently on any medications that might affect mood or thinking? If not, don't you think you should submit yourself for testing?
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 07/14/2005 19:03:58 |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2005 : 19:05:10 [Permalink]
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quote:
Hmm, I didn't understand HYBRID to call himself any type of empiricist. I understood that he was a complete subjectivist. In which case, the only evidence that matters is that which you choose to believe, whether objectively correct or incorrect.
I could have read it wrong. I did re-read some of his posts. I think he mixes both as needed. I think that he stated more than once that physical (firsthand knowledge) was required to believe something. |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2005 : 19:06:49 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by H. Humbert
Beating the hell out of someone? Actually, my icon doesn't show what the guy is punching. It could be kittens, or a terrorist, or a sofa cushion. People tend to see in it what they choose, which is one of the reasons why I like it. So you saw a person in my icon who wasn't actually there. Hmm...
Could be a laser printer...PC LOAD LETTER!!!!! |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2005 : 19:30:02 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by pleco
Could be a laser printer...PC LOAD LETTER!!!!!
Ha ha, could be... 
quote:
I think he mixes both as needed.
Yes, this guy is all over the map. Try pinning down his position on anything. He will invariably respond "I never said that."
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 07/14/2005 19:33:27 |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2005 : 19:51:23 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by pleco
quote:
Hmm, I didn't understand HYBRID to call himself any type of empiricist. I understood that he was a complete subjectivist. In which case, the only evidence that matters is that which you choose to believe, whether objectively correct or incorrect.
I could have read it wrong. I did re-read some of his posts. I think he mixes both as needed. I think that he stated more than once that physical (firsthand knowledge) was required to believe something.
Could be a case of, whatever fits his mood at that time. A rather inconsistant way of gaining knowledge. But then again, what do I know. |
...no one has ever found a 4.5 billion year old stone artifact (at the right geological stratum) with the words "Made by God."
No Sense of Obligation by Matt Young
"Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith. I consider the capacity for it terrifying and vile!"
Mother Night by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
They (Women Marines) don't have a nickname, and they don't need one. They get their basic training in a Marine atmosphere, at a Marine Post. They inherit the traditions of the Marines. They are Marines.
LtGen Thomas Holcomb, USMC
Commandant of the Marine Corps, 1943
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9696 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2005 : 20:29:31 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by H. Humbert
quote:
I think he mixes both as needed.
Yes, this guy is all over the map. Try pinning down his position on anything. He will invariably respond "I never said that."
Post-modernist was my impression. Mind you though, I've never fully understood the concept nor the complete definition of post-modernism. I can be somewhat off. If such is the case, please educate me. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2005 : 20:35:44 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
quote:
Originally posted by H. Humbert
quote:
I think he mixes both as needed.
Yes, this guy is all over the map. Try pinning down his position on anything. He will invariably respond "I never said that."
Post-modernist was my impression. Mind you though, I've never fully understood the concept nor the complete definition of post-modernism. I can be somewhat off. If such is the case, please educate me.
Try this:
http://www.elsewhere.org/cgi-bin/postmodern/
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by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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HYBRID
BANNED
USA
344 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2005 : 21:03:30 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Trish
quote:
Originally posted by pleco
Trish, that won't matter.
Yes, unfortunately, I do understand this.
quote:
If I understand correctly, HYBRID states that all evidence is subjective unless you physically perform the experiment or see it yourself personally. If you just read about it or listen to someone (college professor perhaps), then it may be (and possibly is) falsified and is therefore unreliable. And since we do not possess the ability to go back in time, evolution is unprovable by that standard.
And, in order to justify his own philosophy, HYBRID states that he did not come to his perspective by believing what he has been told or what he has read. Which, logically speaking, means that he has physically seen the things that he states is true. This would include the "mystery schools", Illumanati, etc. I must assume that HYBRID has firsthand witnessed those things and lived to tell about it.
Hmm, I didn't understand HYBRID to call himself any type of empiricist. I understood that he was a complete subjectivist. In which case, the only evidence that matters is that which you choose to believe, whether objectively correct or incorrect.
quote:
Further, it is useless to ask HYBRID for any sources to backup his thoughts, since such sources can be falsified and are subjective.
Hence, there are no set of rules that can be used to evaluate information gleaned from books, others' experience, or even scientific methodology unless one were to perform such experiments themselves. But any information derived could not be shared with anyone; they would have to perform the same experiments themselves.
Yes, I had noticed.
quote:
I have to conclude, then, that HYBRID has not personally seen any of the things that he states as being true. Therefore, what he says is easily dismissed.
I would have to agree with you in part. I still don't see that HYBRID is an empiricist of any sort. Empiricism seems to support the concept of an objective reality, at least in part. That he calls himself a subjectivist would lead me to the conclusion that what he says is easily dismissed after appropriate consideration. Since the majority of his statements fail logically, the dismisal process is not terribly protracted.
edited because I'm an idiot when it comes to the code thing that makes the quotes work so wonderfully well.
That's the thing. They knew nothing of a conspiracy. They unknowingly help set a basis for what mystery schools were, alot of their beliefs, symbols, sared places and ceremonies. It wasn't hard to figure out other things. |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2005 : 21:08:11 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
Post-modernist was my impression. Mind you though, I've never fully understood the concept nor the complete definition of post-modernism. I can be somewhat off. If such is the case, please educate me.
Honestly I have no idea what his response would be. Let's ask him.
Hybrid, are you a post-modernist?
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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GeeMack
SFN Regular
USA
1093 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2005 : 21:52:47 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by pleco...
I could have read it wrong. I did re-read some of his posts. I think he mixes both as needed. I think that he stated more than once that physical (firsthand knowledge) was required to believe something.
His position, as vague as it is, doesn't appear to be connected to a particular requirement for evidence of any sort. He has acknowledged several times that he creates reality in his mind, which means by his own admission he is subject to delusions. He doesn't seem to "suffer" from his delusions, as we might normally think of the word. In fact it is fairly apparent that he derives great pleasure from them.quote:
Originally posted by H. Humbert...
Hybrid, have you ever had to seek counseling or treatment for psychological reasons? Are you currently on any medications that might affect mood or thinking? If not, don't you think you should submit yourself for testing?
I think you're onto something there.  |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2005 : 21:55:43 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by HYBRID
quote:
Originally posted by Trish
quote:
Originally posted by pleco
Trish, that won't matter.
Yes, unfortunately, I do understand this.
quote:
If I understand correctly, HYBRID states that all evidence is subjective unless you physically perform the experiment or see it yourself personally. If you just read about it or listen to someone (college professor perhaps), then it may be (and possibly is) falsified and is therefore unreliable. And since we do not possess the ability to go back in time, evolution is unprovable by that standard.
And, in order to justify his own philosophy, HYBRID states that he did not come to his perspective by believing what he has been told or what he has read. Which, logically speaking, means that he has physically seen the things that he states is true. This would include the "mystery schools", Illumanati, etc. I must assume that HYBRID has firsthand witnessed those things and lived to tell about it.
Hmm, I didn't understand HYBRID to call himself any type of empiricist. I understood that he was a complete subjectivist. In which case, the only evidence that matters is that which you choose to believe, whether objectively correct or incorrect.
quote:
Further, it is useless to ask HYBRID for any sources to backup his thoughts, since such sources can be falsified and are subjective.
Hence, there are no set of rules that can be used to evaluate information gleaned from books, others' experience, or even scientific methodology unless one were to perform such experiments themselves. But any information derived could not be shared with anyone; they would have to perform the same experiments themselves.
Yes, I had noticed.
quote:
I have to conclude, then, that HYBRID has not personally seen any of the things that he states as being true. Therefore, what he says is easily dismissed.
I would have to agree with you in part. I still don't see that HYBRID is an empiricist of any sort. Empiricism seems to support the concept of an objective reality, at least in part. That he calls himself a subjectivist would lead me to the conclusion that what he says is easily dismissed after appropriate consideration. Since the majority of his statements fail logically, the dismisal process is not terribly protracted.
edited because I'm an idiot when it comes to the code thing that makes the quotes work so wonderfully well.
That's the thing. They knew nothing of a conspiracy. They unknowingly help set a basis for what mystery schools were, alot of their beliefs, symbols, sared places and ceremonies. It wasn't hard to figure out other things.
May I ask you to do something that would make understanding your responses much simpler for my rather scattered brain? Could you please quote the specific post to which you are responding, rather than any random post.
I'm now fairly certain this is what happened, when one of your responses seemed a rather irrational attack aimed at me, without being properly responsive to my particular post. |
...no one has ever found a 4.5 billion year old stone artifact (at the right geological stratum) with the words "Made by God."
No Sense of Obligation by Matt Young
"Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith. I consider the capacity for it terrifying and vile!"
Mother Night by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
They (Women Marines) don't have a nickname, and they don't need one. They get their basic training in a Marine atmosphere, at a Marine Post. They inherit the traditions of the Marines. They are Marines.
LtGen Thomas Holcomb, USMC
Commandant of the Marine Corps, 1943
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2005 : 02:27:48 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
quote:
Those bones do not exist and claims of them are merely frothings from Genesis apologists trying to establish that the giants, whose name I can't spell and don't care enough to try,
filthy, do you recall a certain set of pictures (or it may have been just one) that was released to the world several years ago on an April 1st? I believe our friends at biblelandstudios may have actually done an article concerning the fakery in the not to distant past....
Yeah, pictures of a "giant" skeleton being excavated... thank you Photo Shop!
This condescending little prick who has decided to demonstrate to us all here just how ignorant he really is, has been deluded into thinking these giants are real.... by an April fool's joke. He can't reference a single site where any of his "giant" bones are located, can't provide any references beyond some whackadoodle UFO conspiracy books as source material... and so on and on.
There is little point in even trying to hold a civilized discussion with him, as evidenced by this thread, because he isn't interested in having a discussion, just in blathering.
Sorry to get back so late -- some snake stuff came up.
Yeah, I remember it; a couple of years ago, maybe? As I recall, we discussed it. There is s thread on it around here somewhere, perhaps in Humor.
Would you like to look up the Cardif Giant, or shall I? It would give HYBRID something new to gibber about, and he could use some fresh material. I fear he's getting even more redundant and becoming yet more of a bore.
quote:
Can someone moderate this guy please? I thought we were not allowed to make these kind of comments. I guess it is only I who are forbidden then. Bullshit, is what your whole theology is based. You are knee deep in it.Would you like some t.p.?
Do you recall the post where I stated that you get the respect that you earn?
Cry me a river, troll, cry me a fucking river!
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2005 : 03:16:29 [Permalink]
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I'll do it. I enjoy this sort of thing.
The Cardiff Giant wouldn't pass muster today. It was not nearly as sophisticated a hoax as those sprung on us currently, but in it's time, it recieved top billing. It was also the subject where upon one David Hannun, not P.T. Barnham, came up with a timeless comment and one the great truths of our age: "There's a sucker born every minute."
Cynical scoundrel, that Mr. Hannun...
quote:
Cardiff Giant
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
The Cardiff Giant, one of the most famous hoaxes in American history, was a 10-foot-tall stone man discovered October 16, 1869 by workers digging a well behind the barn of William C. "Stub" Newell in Cardiff, New York.
It became the subject of huge interest and debate, with some saying it was an ancient statue and others saying it was a petrified human giant from days of old. Eventually it turned out that the Giant was the creation of a New York tobacconist named George Hull who spent $2,600 having the Giant carved and buried but who sold the creation for $37,500 to a syndicate of five men headed by David Hannum. It was moved to Syracuse, New York for exhibition.
It drew such crowds that showman P.T. Barnum offered $60,000 for a three-month lease of it. When he was turned down he made a plaster replica and put it on display, claiming that his was the real giant and the Cardiff Giant was a fake. As the newspapers reported Barnum's version of the story, David Hannum was quoted as saying, "There's a sucker born every minute." This was in reference to the suckers paying to see Barnum's giant. Over time, the quotation has been misattributed to P.T. Barnum himself.
Frauds and fakery come and go like the tides, and like the tides, they carry a ceratin amount of flotsom with them. I have little doubt that there are still otherwise sensible people who tell their grand
children of how their fathers saw the amazing Cardiff Giant, petrified wonder of the world.
Say, as this thread (along with a couple of others) has decended into utter crap, why not do some hoaxes; those hoaxes that are touted as failures of science, yet were uncovered and debunked by that same science? Anybody wanna do Piltdown or Archeoraptor? The man-eating Allosarus of New Mexico, that caused such a tizzy amongst the faithful, might be a good one. So would the London Hammer and the Coso Artifact. This last one would be for the UFO enthusists, who might one day tell their progeny of it.
Maybe we can salvage this turkey....
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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| Edited by - filthy on 07/15/2005 03:50:15 |
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2005 : 05:38:15 [Permalink]
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Pfretzs... said
quote:
furshur: don't let homeboy here put you off IU; I'll be there myself in the fall. HYBRID: do you hang at the Video Saloon?
You are absolutely right, when hybrid leaves here I am sure he will tell anyone who will listen that he convinced everyone here that evolution is false and we are descended from outerspace giants. Isn't subjective reality great!
What probably happeded was when Hybrid told the professor about his theories the professor said something like, "Are you stupid or something?" which Hybrid took as enthusiastic agreement with him.
By the way have a good year at school.
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If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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