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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4826 Posts

Posted - 08/09/2005 :  13:59:17   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by bigbrain

"NASA would not allow the large rockets of Galileo and Cassini to be carried in the Shuttle Cargo Bay, ruling out a direct trajectory approach".

Then also you don't understand: Cassini already went at 101,000 miles per hour, WITHOUT LARGE ROCKET.



Perhaps you don't understand. I'll try to simplify it for you.

A ball is thrown from the driver's side of a moving vehicle traveling at 45 mph. It is thrown out the window not towards direction of travel. The ball is thrown at 20 mph. The velocity of the ball is 20 mph with a 45 mph vectored movement. That is 20 mph foward, 45 mph right movement.

Clear enough for you?

Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion
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bigbrain
BANNED

409 Posts

Posted - 08/09/2005 :  14:00:00   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send bigbrain a Private Message
If NASA (New Animation Software Agency) was able to steer probes to Mars and Saturn, it wouldn't be afraid of some clouds for Shuttle landing

"Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit" (Flattery gets friends, truth hatred)
Publius Terentius Afer, "Terence", Roman dramatist

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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4826 Posts

Posted - 08/09/2005 :  14:01:23   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by bigbrain

Try "bacing" ???



Thank you so much for ignoring refuting evidence and instead focusing on a single dropped "k".

Now that we've established that the word was "backing", your turn to provide evidence that what you are saying is true.

Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion
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bigbrain
BANNED

409 Posts

Posted - 08/09/2005 :  14:06:03   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send bigbrain a Private Message
"A ball is thrown from the driver's side of a moving vehicle traveling at 45 mph. It is thrown out the window not towards direction of travel. The ball is thrown at 20 mph. The velocity of the ball is 20 mph with a 45 mph vectored movement. That is 20 mph foward, 45 mph right movement".

Only an idiot can launch his probe "out the window not towards direction of travel"

"Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit" (Flattery gets friends, truth hatred)
Publius Terentius Afer, "Terence", Roman dramatist

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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4826 Posts

Posted - 08/09/2005 :  14:06:07   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by bigbrain

If NASA (New Animation Software Agency) was able to steer probes to Mars and Saturn, it wouldn't be afraid of some clouds for Shuttle landing



Way off base here. Big difference between soft landings and orbital insertions. Also, the shuttle is landed by a human, not by a machine and humans need to have VFR conditions just in case ILS fails.

Orbital insertions and slingshots have a bigger window than soft landings.

Besides a blatant misunderstanding of physics, what evidence do you have that Softimage, Maya, 3D Studio Max, LightWave 3D invent these images for NASA?

Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4826 Posts

Posted - 08/09/2005 :  14:09:16   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by bigbrain

"A ball is thrown from the driver's side of a moving vehicle traveling at 45 mph. It is thrown out the window not towards direction of travel. The ball is thrown at 20 mph. The velocity of the ball is 20 mph with a 45 mph vectored movement. That is 20 mph foward, 45 mph right movement".

Only an idiot can launch his probe "out the window not towards direction of travel"




Funny, if you try, you could do it from your own vechile.

Have you no idea of basic physics concerning launch from a rotating sphere?

Hint from Copernicus: It moves. Deal with it.

Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion
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bigbrain
BANNED

409 Posts

Posted - 08/09/2005 :  14:15:25   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send bigbrain a Private Message
http://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/basics/bsf4-1.html

"... So the spacecraft lifts off the launch pad, rises above Earth's atmosphere, and uses its rocket to accelerate in the direction of Earth's revolution around the sun..."

"Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit" (Flattery gets friends, truth hatred)
Publius Terentius Afer, "Terence", Roman dramatist

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dv82matt
SFN Regular

760 Posts

Posted - 08/09/2005 :  14:23:39   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send dv82matt a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by bigbrain

Then also you don't understand: Cassini already went at 101,000 miles per hour, WITHOUT LARGE ROCKET.
Leaving aside the orbital intricacies, your main oversight is not realizing that Cassini would slow down as it moved away from the sun. It would not retain its high speed all the way to Saturn.
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bigbrain
BANNED

409 Posts

Posted - 08/09/2005 :  14:31:39   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send bigbrain a Private Message
"Leaving aside the orbital intricacies, your main oversight is not realizing that Cassini would slow down as it moved away from the sun. It would not retain its high speed all the way to Saturn"

The more Cassini goes away from the sun the more gravity force of the sun decreases.

"Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit" (Flattery gets friends, truth hatred)
Publius Terentius Afer, "Terence", Roman dramatist

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pleco
SFN Addict

USA
2998 Posts

Posted - 08/09/2005 :  14:37:16   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit pleco's Homepage Send pleco a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by bigbrain

http://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/basics/bsf4-1.html

"... So the spacecraft lifts off the launch pad, rises above Earth's atmosphere, and uses its rocket to accelerate in the direction of Earth's revolution around the sun..."



From the same web page:

quote:
The gravity assist technique was championed by Michael Minovitch in the early 1960s, while he was a UCLA graduate student working during the summers at JPL. Prior to the adoption of the gravity assist technique, it was believed that travel to the outer solar system would only be possible by developing extremely powerful launch vehicles using nuclear reactors to create tremendous thrust, and basically flying larger and larger Hohmann transfers.


Which is why I asked you to include monetary figures for your plan.

by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart.
Edited by - pleco on 08/09/2005 14:46:04
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dv82matt
SFN Regular

760 Posts

Posted - 08/09/2005 :  14:49:35   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send dv82matt a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by bigbrain

The more Cassini goes away from the sun the more gravity force of the sun decreases.

Do you believe that gravity is irrelevant, since it decreases with distance?
Edited by - dv82matt on 08/09/2005 14:52:38
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Dry_vby
Skeptic Friend

Australia
249 Posts

Posted - 08/09/2005 :  15:25:24   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dry_vby a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by bigbrain

All images and movies about Mars, Saturn, Tempel1, Hyperion and so on are made by Softimage, Maya, 3D Studio Max, LightWave 3D



I've got a notion that Osama bin-Laden is really a computer generated graphic perepetrated by the Christion Right to instigate the New Crusade.

With your help, Mr Brain, we could crack this whole thing wide open.

"I'll go along with the charade
Until I can think my way out.
I know it was all a big joke
Whatever it was about."

Bob Dylan
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Paulos23
Skeptic Friend

USA
446 Posts

Posted - 08/09/2005 :  15:34:15   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Paulos23's Homepage Send Paulos23 a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by bigbrain

"Leaving aside the orbital intricacies, your main oversight is not realizing that Cassini would slow down as it moved away from the sun. It would not retain its high speed all the way to Saturn"

The more Cassini goes away from the sun the more gravity force of the sun decreases.



True, but the sun's gravity is pulling on the rocket, and the rocket is not pushing against the gravity (i.e. thrust), the rocket will slow down. Therefore, it needs a larger inisal speed then what your claiming.

You can go wrong by being too skeptical as readily as by being too trusting. -- Robert A. Heinlein

Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 08/09/2005 :  16:20:51   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message
haha!

Thats all I can say.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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Hawks
SFN Regular

Canada
1383 Posts

Posted - 08/09/2005 :  16:21:12   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Hawks's Homepage Send Hawks a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by bigbrain

All images and movies about Mars, Saturn, Tempel1, Hyperion and so on are made by Softimage, Maya, 3D Studio Max, LightWave 3D.

George W Bush is made the same way. He is really a CIA CGI figure created to wreak havoc with the free world. See http://www.skepticfriends.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4783&whichpage=2
for a reference.

METHINKS IT IS LIKE A WEASEL
It's a small, off-duty czechoslovakian traffic warden!
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