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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
 Posted - 10/17/2005 : 00:25:29 [Permalink]
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| I have a hard time getting into this topic and haven't read the last nine pages...but do the believers of this miracle of conspired destruction have an explanation as to how these implosion devices were smuggled in and set up with no one noticing? |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2005 : 01:41:57 [Permalink]
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| Beskeptigal, there has been no explanation forthcoming from the believers. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2005 : 03:43:53 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
Beskeptigal, there has been no explanation forthcoming from the believers.
Nor will there be -- is there ever, at least any that will make any sense?
The main speculation from the cracked pots is that a demolition team set charges to go off when the airplane hit and caused the building(s) to implode. That one is so easy to debunk, it's no fun.
Shall I? Why not.....
To implode a building, you don't just toss some in some explosives, prime 'em, shout "Fire in the hole!" and hit the hell-box, no. The planning of the charges is done by engineers fully as expert as those who designed the structure in the first place. It is mainly done with shaped charges placed exactly on support structures; the position of each one carefully planned. To drop a pair of structures as large as the Twin Towers would require a lot of charges and a lot of planning, and a hell of a lot of plain, old construction labor as walls would be ripped out to gain access to the supports.
A properly made and set shaped charge -- they are not very large, by the way -- will cut the thickest and strongist, steel girder like it was sliced with a knife. I'm not sure what they make them out of today, but the Navy diving gangs used to use C-4 and sometimes C-3 (and these composition explosives are really neat stuff).
The proper number and placement of these charges in a large building would take a long time and a large number of personell and, well, somebody would have noticed all the guys in hardhats digging into the walls, stringing wire and PrimaCord, and talking about ka-boom on their walki-talkies, dont'cha think? Not to mention the rubble from all the tear-outs, to the Janitoral Department's dismay.
And then there's the small matter of coordinating the blasting with certifiable lunatics hijacking passenger planes with no guarentee that the hijacking would be successful. Not even George W. Bush is that stupid, although, judging by the way he tries to scare the chitterlings out of us every time his polling drops, he's probably thought of it.
Go back and read the thread, B'gal. It's a hoot!
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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lord_hevonen
New Member
30 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2005 : 05:58:11 [Permalink]
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Could some conspiracy believer please explain what really happened to flight 77? Was the plane with its doomed passengers flown to a remote desert or something?
Why didn't the Conspiracy crash this Boeing into Pentagon, like all the other planes, to make the coverup more convincing? |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2005 : 07:09:20 [Permalink]
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Lord - the plane was intentionally crased so that the US could have some "citizen heroes" to divert attention away from the real conspiracy.
Isn't it obvious ;-) |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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courageouslion
New Member
USA
9 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2005 : 17:31:37 [Permalink]
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| I thought this was a site for skeptics not gobberment stooges. |
They call this a skeptics forum? ROTGLMFGO! |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2005 : 18:56:13 [Permalink]
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There is nothing worse than aggressive stupidity.
- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2005 : 19:23:56 [Permalink]
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| Does not getting a joke qualify? |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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courageouslion
New Member
USA
9 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2005 : 20:29:13 [Permalink]
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Let's see, I am not supposed to be skeptical about the gooberment version of 9/11. They would never lie. They always tell the truth.
Hmmm....Well, Hanni Hanjor (sp) the Saudi who supposedly flew the 757 into the Pentagon according to his flight instructor in Maryland couldn't hardly fly a Cessna but here is he doing acrobatic Blue Angel maneuvers with a 757 flying 2 feet off the ground into an a recently renovated mainly unoccupied section of the Pentagon. His plane a 124 foot wide and 151 foot long and 41 foot tall 757 manages to totally disappear including two 6 ton 9 foot diameter engines that manage to do so without even scratching the surface of the Pentagon. Leaving a hole about 16 feet across before the building collapsed. And the fire that was so fierce to completely melt out of existence a rather large amount of steel, aluminum and titanium doesn't even scorch an open book shown in the collapsed building pictures laying on a stool. A CRT sitting on top of a file cabinet is left without a scratch. The
aircraft debris left in the building shown to the public include a rotor that is about 3 feet tall which is rather small to fit a 757. The wheel hub that is found is rather small and there is only one shown. Where are the other 10? Oh, yes, I am not supposed to be skeptical about the government version. Hmmmm....let me get on my tin foil cap.
Let's see what I am not supposed to be skeptical about when it comes to the Twin Towers...the cellphone calls, the fact that no Air Force jet was sent up to intercept the "hi jacked" jets, the wreckage in Shanksville PA, the fact there were many video cameras that seem to have had no tape in them on that day, including some that had tape confiscated by the FBI, the many interesting Firefighter calls claiming explosions were going off in the Twin Towers, the fact that the Twin Towers had a "cable" upgrade a few weeks before 9/11 that included having the security system turned off, that Marvin Bush was a owner in the security company that "protected" the trade center complex, the way George Bush reacted to the news of the jets hitting the towers in the classroom in Florida...yeah...I'm not skeptical of the gooberment version at all. Duh? |
They call this a skeptics forum? ROTGLMFGO! |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2005 : 21:44:46 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Kil
Does not getting a joke qualify?
Nevermind... |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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courageouslion
New Member
USA
9 Posts |
Posted - 10/19/2005 : 06:29:44 [Permalink]
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This online video is somewhat low quality HOWEVER it makes the point...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2023320890224991194&q=alex+jones
And just because Alex Jones has it posted doesn't make it wrong.
The high quality DVD of "Loose Change" is available from http://www.tvnewslies.org/html/loose_change_dvd.html
FACT is folks...we've been taken over by a bunch of tyrants bent on making the world their kingdom with us as the throw away pawns.
If any of you "skeptics" can view this documentary and walk away believing the gooberment version...I'd say there is no hope for you and you are SERIOUSLY...NOT a SKEPTIC and you need to take a new name...
DUMB SLAVE. |
They call this a skeptics forum? ROTGLMFGO! |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 10/19/2005 : 06:30:21 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by courageouslion
Let's see, I am not supposed to be skeptical about the gooberment version of 9/11. They would never lie. They always tell the truth.
Hmmm....Well, Hanni Hanjor (sp) the Saudi who supposedly flew the 757 into the Pentagon according to his flight instructor in Maryland couldn't hardly fly a Cessna but here is he doing acrobatic Blue Angel maneuvers with a 757 flying 2 feet off the ground into an a recently renovated mainly unoccupied section of the Pentagon. His plane a 124 foot wide and 151 foot long and 41 foot tall 757 manages to totally disappear including two 6 ton 9 foot diameter engines that manage to do so without even scratching the surface of the Pentagon. Leaving a hole about 16 feet across before the building collapsed. And the fire that was so fierce to completely melt out of existence a rather large amount of steel, aluminum and titanium doesn't even scorch an open book shown in the collapsed building pictures laying on a stool. A CRT sitting on top of a file cabinet is left without a scratch. The
aircraft debris left in the building shown to the public include a rotor that is about 3 feet tall which is rather small to fit a 757. The wheel hub that is found is rather small and there is only one shown. Where are the other 10? Oh, yes, I am not supposed to be skeptical about the government version. Hmmmm....let me get on my tin foil cap.
Let's see what I am not supposed to be skeptical about when it comes to the Twin Towers...the cellphone calls, the fact that no Air Force jet was sent up to intercept the "hi jacked" jets, the wreckage in Shanksville PA, the fact there were many video cameras that seem to have had no tape in them on that day, including some that had tape confiscated by the FBI, the many interesting Firefighter calls claiming explosions were going off in the Twin Towers, the fact that the Twin Towers had a "cable" upgrade a few weeks before 9/11 that included having the security system turned off, that Marvin Bush was a owner in the security company that "protected" the trade center complex, the way George Bush reacted to the news of the jets hitting the towers in the classroom in Florida...yeah...I'm not skeptical of the gooberment version at all. Duh?
When the gooberment version matches that of structural engineers and the claims of conspiracy contain gross inaccuracies, yes, the gooberment's version of the events is more reasonable.
1) The hole in E-ring was 40 feet wide, not 16.
2) The Pentagon is essentially one big friggin bunker built to withstand a close by nuclear blast. The outside was steel reinforced concrete. The plane still managed to destroy a swath 110 feet long and 40 feet wide at the E-ring tapering to a 10 foot exit hole in C-ring.
Links and intense discussion on this very topic can be reviewed here
http://www.skepticfriends.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3194
And here which includes links to the ASCE report
http://www.skepticfriends.org/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=2712
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Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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lord_hevonen
New Member
30 Posts |
Posted - 10/19/2005 : 06:32:17 [Permalink]
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Thanks, Courageouslion! At last some conspiracy believer gives us arguments and thoughts, instead of just calling everyone cowards with caps lock on...Please browse through this, there are some interesting counterarguments:
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/911_pentagon_757_plane_evidence.html
Also consider this: What kind of a missile would make a 40 foot hole, with no sign of warhead explosion? Remember also, that no airplane has wings designed tough enough to slice through reinforced wall like a knife. |
| Edited by - lord_hevonen on 10/19/2005 06:35:36 |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 10/19/2005 : 07:14:55 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by courageouslion
This online video is somewhat low quality HOWEVER it makes the point...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2023320890224991194&q=alex+jones
I did view a few minutes of the film. When they start analysing "the flash that happened right before the second impact" my skeptic red flag waver went into overdrive. I've worked with photoshop, and my girlfriend works with photoshop. And the area just arount the flash most definitly looks to me like someone has been overusing the burn-tool.
quote:
And just because Alex Jones has it posted doesn't make it wrong.
True, but if the photos has been manipulated then it sure as hell isn't right. I want to examine the sources of those films, now that I have reason to believe Jones har forged his.
quote:
FACT is folks...we've been taken over by a bunch of tyrants bent on making the world their kingdom with us as the throw away pawns.
Now, that is an undisputable fact...
quote:
If any of you "skeptics" can view this documentary and walk away believing the gooberment version...I'd say there is no hope for you and you are SERIOUSLY...NOT a SKEPTIC and you need to take a new name...
DUMB SLAVE.
At the bottom of every page is a paragraph that tells you what kind of skeptics we are. In case you missed it, here it is:
"The mission of the Skeptic Friends Network is to promote skepticism, critical thinking, science and logic as the best methods for evaluating all claims of fact, and we invite active participation by our members to create a skeptical community with a wide variety of wiewpoints and expertise. "
(Edit: formatting) |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
| Edited by - Dr. Mabuse on 10/19/2005 07:17:57 |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 10/19/2005 : 07:25:57 [Permalink]
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One other thing...
Alex Jones says that the flash before the first strike is bigger than the fusilage of the plane hitting the building. Had he known a bit more about photography, he should have been able to recognise over-exposure. The source of the flash may be much smaller than the fusilage, but may bleed into a larger area, larger than the plane.
If that footage is indeed genuine. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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