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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
 Posted - 12/01/2005 : 13:09:58 [Permalink]
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Each line I read is more bewildering than the next. My attempt at a response.
You ASR should try painting, as your imagination is far too active for functional science.
I will say this, the absence of a place is not a place to describe in the first place. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
Creativity is only a word, used by humans to describe the intentional manipulation of the particle soup in some way. Though getting the humans to agree which particle soup manipulations deserve the title creative is an issue, after all some humans think the lack of something is creative. (blank canvases or silent moments in music.)
In the end these are just words and you are creativly manipulating them in your own way to make material things and non-material concepts equal, which they are not and will never be. If you write down a word on the paper that word will not become a material thing, it will remain a non-material concept. The carbon and the paper remain carbon and paper, however they are arranged in such a way that those who are not ignorant of the concept and language can discern the intended word.
Something means some-thing, by inventing a new machine I do not create something from nothing, the concept is not a thing and if I make the machine I have only manipulated the particle soup.
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"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 12/01/2005 : 17:47:31 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
I know I shouldn't be so amused by the blathering of the clueless.... but I just can't help it. Its funny!
The problem is that it's not so much the blathering of the clueless but the symptoms of ASR's schizophrenia. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 12/01/2005 : 18:18:49 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ASR
It's the essence of a thought becoming nothing.
It isn't possible to think of nothing.
quote:
I said Nothing can't exist in the physical universe...
Yes, you said it and I dispute it. You give one example--heat. There are others ways for nothing to exist in the physical Universe.
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...thus it is possible for everything to not exist in a philosophical universe. If there was a creative universe before a physical universe which I am claiming, then that is possible.
You don't need a creative Universe for nothing to exist. The time before time existed, before the physical Universe existed, there was nothing--not even a consciousness to comprehend that there was nothing.
quote:
Therefore the physically infinite universe is only finite when you try to imagine a philosophical universe as having physical properties. (Taboo)
I don't understand you're conclusion. Can you re-phrase it? What's taboo?
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2005 : 11:00:34 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
I know I shouldn't be so amused by the blathering of the clueless.... but I just can't help it. Its funny!
I think this helps me here.... |
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2005 : 11:57:39 [Permalink]
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quote:
The problem is that it's not so much the blathering of the clueless but the symptoms of ASR's schizophrenia.
Oh, crap I forgot about that, thanks for the reminder.
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If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2005 : 15:43:59 [Permalink]
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| ... is it me or is anyone else thoroughly lost? |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2005 : 23:36:17 [Permalink]
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Siberia, what you're seeing is some skeptics trying to argue with someone who admits to being "in recovery" from schizophrenia (and that quoted phrase indicates to some in the mental-health field that he is not taking his medications).
While we've often told people here that they've got a screw loose, or are obviously suffering from cognitive dissonance, schizophrenia takes "different viewpoint" to a whole 'nother level. ASR doesn't feel free to redefine words to suit his purposes, he probably thinks that's the only correct and logical thing to do. His brain is truly functioning differently from most people's, and what we might think of as "logical" or "reasonable" will be absolutely useless in convincing him of anything, since he thinks he's the one being logical and reasonable, and there's no real way to show him otherwise (especially not with this limited format). |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2005 : 01:47:04 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
...what we might think of as "logical" or "reasonable" will be absolutely useless in convincing him of anything, since he thinks he's the one being logical and reasonable, and there's no real way to show him otherwise (especially not with this limited format).
And that makes him different from other "believers" how? 
While it may be true that ASR thinks different than the rest of us, I don't see his line of questioning as being all that bizarre. The way he structures complex subjects into single terms can be frustrating, but he does make an effort to explain what he means by these terms. But some of the things he's asking are things we've all probably wrestled with at one time or another. How does something come from nothing? How did brute matter gain the ability to think? If matter acts in accordance to immutable physical laws, where does free will come from?
I don't see his "theories" as a serious attempt to sway anyone, rather they are the fruits of his contemplations on these subjects. He's here because he wants a little feedback. Beyond addressing or correcting what ASR says directly, I find it helpful to consider what questions he may have been asking himself to arrive at such a conclusion, and then try to provide alternative lines of thinking in regard to those questions.
That said, I won't pretend to know exactly what he's talking about all the time, nor do I claim my answers to him have been especially helpful. And I seriously believe that, in the end, his religious convictions will prove a far greater barrier to clarifying his perceptions on these subjects than even a mental disorder will.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 12/03/2005 01:56:49 |
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