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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 12/08/2005 : 11:12:01 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Fripp
It's like the good old tried-and-true M-14 versus the M-16. The M-14 could go thru anything and shot a 7.62 versus the pea-shooter M-16. I hated the M-16. But part of that was jealousy--I was a 60 gunner in the platoon, humping belts of ammo, so I was jealous of the other guys carrying that toy gun.
I think that one of the smartest things the military has done was to go to a smaller cartridge. Those big guns are excellent, but not everyone can shoot them. The M1 Garand and the 03-A3 Springfield befoer it, made a lot of people permenantly recoil-shy.
And as you say, a soldier can carry a lot more ammo in the same weight bracket.
In my opinion, if I were called upon to give it, the 7.62 X 39 Russian, as used in the AK-47, is a superior military cartridge. And not too bad for a sporting rifle, comes to that..... Um, the thought occurs; we seem to have lost track of the asteroid.
Ah well....
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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| Edited by - filthy on 12/08/2005 11:16:47 |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2005 : 14:09:30 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Fripp
I agree with you, Filthy. As an ex-Navy SEAL, we were supplied Sig 9MM that I HATED. They rusted at a picyture of the ocean, jammed constantly, and 9MM is very UNreliable as to killpower. The classic 1911 .45 will put someone down. I'm sure you know the background of the Marines and needing .45s because .38s weren't putting down the Moros in the PI.
When we were crossing surf, I ALWAYS brought a revolver. So much easier to clean sand and surf from a revolver. A revolver is so much easier to maintain out in the field as well. I'm sure thre will be good arguments made for 14-15 shot autos, but I know that if you were out on an op and you were down to your side arm, your SOL.
All true, though my Ruger's been pretty reliable. I did drop it in sand once and had to have it professionally cleaned-- it was virtually frozen solid! Otherwise, though, I'm happy with it. Of course, I haven't been killing with it, so perhaps my opinion would change. Just looking at the size of the round in comparison with others, it doesn't seem like it's quite big enough to do someone in, even when going at 1,000 feet per second.
But it will still blow the hell out of a cantilope! |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2005 : 14:11:05 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
Um, the thought occurs; we seem to have lost track of the asteroid.
Ah well....
It's OK if we lose track of it, Filthy. Just as long as the NASA scientist types don't!  |
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ronnywhite
SFN Regular
501 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2005 : 02:32:34 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
... the .30 M-1 carbine. Fun to waste ammunition with, and not a bad home defense weapon against crackheads, but I wouldn't consider it for anything else.
I kept wundrin' about that comment, in light of Patton's famous quote; "In my opinion, the M1 Rifle is the greatest battle implement ever devised." Good by the standards of the old days, I guess??? |
Ron White |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2005 : 03:46:18 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ronnywhite
quote:
Originally posted by filthy
... the .30 M-1 carbine. Fun to waste ammunition with, and not a bad home defense weapon against crackheads, but I wouldn't consider it for anything else.
I kept wundrin' about that comment, in light of Patton's famous quote; "In my opinion, the M1 Rifle is the greatest battle implement ever devised." Good by the standards of the old days, I guess???
Patton was speaking of the M-1 Garand, an entirely different rifle from the little carbine. And he was correct; in it's day, it was the best military rifle in the world.
But it fires a 30-06 cartridge rather than the relativly tiny .30 Carbine (not a bad pistol cartridge, incidently), and unless a recruit had previous experience with a big rifle, the recoil would rock his world. Another disadvantage was that the weight of it's ammunition was such that a soldier could only carry so much. Also, it was a SAW, that is; a semi-automatic weapon, and it's rate of fire was very low by today's standards.
On the plus side, it was quite accurate for a military piece, highly reliable, and easy to maintain. I have always liked that boomer and have played with the idea of converting one into a sporting rifle, as I did once with it's predecessor, the bolt-action, '03-A3 Springfield (same, slammin' cartridge). Doubt if I'll ever do it though. I have another rifle project started that will take up a most of my table-top-gunsmith time and very limited funds.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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ronnywhite
SFN Regular
501 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2005 : 07:20:32 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
...But it fires a 30-06 cartridge rather than the relativly tiny .30 Carbine...
That explains it... not being gunwise, I was a bit confused, as the 30-06 is the only 30 calibre rifle bullet I've had the displeasure of shooting- it was like being punched in the shoulder, and those shells were so big, I figured they had to be suitable for taking down more than a crazed crackhead breaking into a living room (although I couldn't hit much with it, guy shooting with me was a good shot, and I suspect given him and that pump-action with big scope, damn near anybody/thing remotely in sight could have had a problem... a considerable problem, in fact, since even being on the opposite end of those shells wasn't exactly fun.) |
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spacecadet
New Member
USA
13 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2005 : 19:36:07 [Permalink]
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All this talk about weapons and the correct ones and the right size and all of that seems to be a moot point. What are you guys going to do, shoot at the blasted meteor with it> Let's face it guys, most of you are at least 40. You'll be 65 or more when the thing whizzes through and the gravitational pull does really shitty things to our weather and makes the ocean's tides get really high from the gravitational pull as well. If it's big enough, we'll be dealing with earthquakes from the gravity drive by as well.
Guns are not going to help you geriatric toothless spam eatin' geezers. You won't be able to find yer glasses for christ sake. Not to mention the world's population will have double and any canned food you have hidden will probably be stolen by the younger punk heads.
You guys better get a better plan than shooting several thousand kids over some cans of spam.
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Clevetta |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2005 : 19:51:51 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by spacecadet
All this talk about weapons and the correct ones and the right size and all of that seems to be a moot point. What are you guys going to do, shoot at the blasted meteor with it> Let's face it guys, most of you are at least 40. You'll be 65 or more when the thing whizzes through and the gravitational pull does really shitty things to our weather and makes the ocean's tides get really high from the gravitational pull as well. If it's big enough, we'll be dealing with earthquakes from the gravity drive by as well.
Guns are not going to help you geriatric toothless spam eatin' geezers. You won't be able to find yer glasses for christ sake. Not to mention the world's population will have double and any canned food you have hidden will probably be stolen by the younger punk heads.
You guys better get a better plan than shooting several thousand kids over some cans of spam.
Speak for yourself, chump! And don't forget: the problem isn't the time right before/after the thing hits, it's the period of 4+ years when we realize it is going to hit and can't do anything about it. That's when the anarchy ensues, and when I want to have m 70,000+ rounds ready to fight off the old guys for cans of spam defend myself. |
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GeeMack
SFN Regular
USA
1093 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2005 : 19:57:15 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by spacecadet...
Guns are not going to help you geriatric toothless spam eatin' geezers.
Although the image isn't very pleasant, I like your style, spacecadet. It's always good to have some reality checkers around when discussions go astray. Welcome to SFN. 
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ronnywhite
SFN Regular
501 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2005 : 22:48:32 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by spacecadet
1.... If it's big enough, we'll be dealing with earthquakes from the gravity drive by as well...
2.... Guns are not going to help you geriatric toothless spam eatin' geezers...
3. ... seems to be a moot point ...
1. No, it's not nearly big enough. If you really insist, I'll provide calculations, but I'm growing lazier about such things, probably as learning to swim decently again (after learning to shoot) would likely be a wiser way to expend my energies since once the religious extremists take over our Supreme Court, it will be just a matter of time before I'm thrown into a river with a boulder tied to my feet to "see if I float" as part of the Department of Homeland Security, Spiritual Wholesomeness, and Exorcism's (emergency) "Demonic Possession Initiative" and the Justice Department's "Scientific Blasphemy Elimination Act". Was it this thread someone said somethin' about anti-theism? Wut you be talking about, man?
2. Spam??? No way... I hate spam. Toothless? Yeah, almost certainly. Geezer? Absolutely.
3. It's highly relevant- as I see it, by the time the asteroid gets here, the politicians will have long spent the rest of our money, possibly (very partially) to deflect the asteroid, most likely the last billion expended on Bibles for all US citizens (printed and bound in China) if current trends remain undeterred... that means it's most prudent that I learn to shoot again so I'll be able to have a nice, juicy muskrat or jackrabbit for dinner, since the neighbor kids will have "Shanghai"d and barbequed everyone's pets long before then. |
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| Edited by - ronnywhite on 12/14/2005 00:04:49 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2005 : 04:27:46 [Permalink]
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I'm already over sixty five, have a redneck's smile, and rather like Spam. As many years as I spent in the military, you learn to at least tolorate it. It actually tastes great when you're good and hungry and have heated it up over a burning chunk of C-4.
The next time you or your better half makes a meatloaf, a finely chopped or ground up chunk of Spam will add flavor to it.
Let's face it: firearms exist, having evolved in natural course from earlier, projectile weapons. Further, we have always had a weapon handy ever since our species became dexterous enough and sapient enough to wield one, and will continue to do so. That fact, rather sad as it might be, will never change. And let us further face the fact that it can be mean, old world even without the asteroid. I have always believed that at least some knowledge of shooting, whether you actually own a firearm or not, or even don't want one anywhere near you, should be aquired. Given this knowledge, I think there'd be a lot fewer shooting accidents and something of a decline in burglary and street thuggery.
Further yet, the young whippersnappers would find that robbing us old farts of our precious Spam would be a dangerous undertaking. In my own case, it is already... 
Welcome to SFN, spacecadet, if I haven't already greeted you some time back. I may have, but memory tends to slip a bit with us codgers.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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ronnywhite
SFN Regular
501 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2005 : 05:27:21 [Permalink]
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| Welcome back to SFN, spacecadet... Hey, ya gotta' hit the "Predictions for 2006" thread and add yer 5 cents worth... I haven't yet, but the psychic abilities I have developed while patronizing the SFN website tell me that (1) you come well-armed, having at least several cannons easily accessible at all times in your dwelling, (2) you are an avid hunter, and that (3) the impetus of your comments is only that none are likely suitable to deflect asteroids at the present time. OK, that's a warm-up... I'll kick my amazing Kreskin-like clairvoyance into high-gear and add my own nickel to the thread maybe tomorrow. |
Ron White |
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spacecadet
New Member
USA
13 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2005 : 18:29:18 [Permalink]
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Thank you GeeMack and Filthy for the welcome. I have just begun voicing my opinion on this website. I really expected to take a lot more fire from the members for jumping in with all fours like I did.Thanks for the welcome instead of return fire.
...Ron, well, your "psychic abilities" are amazing (snicker). I believe in peace through superior fire power. I own an SKS semi automatic, an AK which shoots the same rounds, a 243, a 12 gauge automatic shotgun and a hand gun or two. No, these are not my husband's or my boyfriends...I dont have either one of those at this time in my life. (maybe I'll get lucky this weekend?..But I digress.)
I believe in keeping the pantry stocked with 9 months worth of food (the estimated time it will take for the "new militant strain" of Smallpox to run its course & kill millions) and to keep enough ammo on hand in case the starving survivors of the Smallpox outbreak overrun my turf.
Smallpox, Asteroid, New World Order take over. They are all the same hallocausts (spelling?) with a different name pasted on them.
....oh, and I am probably a better shot than Ron. I hunt a lot. Kisses ron.... |
Clevetta |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2005 : 19:25:23 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by spacecadet
Thank you GeeMack and Filthy for the welcome. I have just begun voicing my opinion on this website. I really expected to take a lot more fire from the members for jumping in with all fours like I did.Thanks for the welcome instead of return fire.
...Ron, well, your "psychic abilities" are amazing (snicker). I believe in peace through superior fire power. I own an SKS semi automatic, an AK which shoots the same rounds, a 243, a 12 gauge automatic shotgun and a hand gun or two. No, these are not my husband's or my boyfriends...I dont have either one of those at this time in my life. (maybe I'll get lucky this weekend?..But I digress.)
I believe in keeping the pantry stocked with 9 months worth of food (the estimated time it will take for the "new militant strain" of Smallpox to run its course & kill millions) and to keep enough ammo on hand in case the starving survivors of the Smallpox outbreak overrun my turf.
Smallpox, Asteroid, New World Order take over. They are all the same hallocausts (spelling?) with a different name pasted on them.
....oh, and I am probably a better shot than Ron. I hunt a lot. Kisses ron....
A Kalashnikov fan! I knew there was something about you that I liked!
Of all of the rifles I've fired over the years, the AK-47 has been the most fun. Everybody under the sun is building the things and my rifle is the Romanian version.
The best of the AKs are built by Chinese, mainly because the reciever is stamped fron slightly thicker steel. The cartridge, 7.62 X 39 mm, is about the equivelent of a 30-30, give or take, depending on who you're talking to. It is suitable to hunt any North American game animal except bison or grizzly bear, and I would advise something heavier for moose.
Currently, mine is torn down to the bone to try and squeeze a little more accuracy out of it. It groups, from a bench rest, just under 1.5 inches at 100 yds and I want to tighten that up. But it'll never be a tack hammer due to a rather sloppy chamber. Sweet none the less, and arguably among the best light rifles in the world. An ugly, little bastard, though.
Also, I can buy pretty decent ammunition cheaper than I can handload for it.
Other than that and a .22, it's pistols, long my firearms of choice, and muzzleloaders. Something about the fragrance of burning sulpher.....
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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ronnywhite
SFN Regular
501 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2005 : 21:52:59 [Permalink]
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| spacecadet could surely outshoot me blindfolded, but competing with filthy would seem a formidable feat at minimum... 1.5 inches at 100 yards and you want to "tighten it up???" Wow. I remember reading years ago that a group of Army soldiers traded their M16s for the AK47s of another NATO group during an exercise (Middle East I think, can't recall with certainty) and afterwards, they couldn't wait to get their AKs back. |
Ron White |
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