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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
 Posted - 02/16/2006 : 13:19:53 [Permalink]
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I've just posted the following topic suggestion at the "Mythbusters" site:
(http://community.discovery.com/groupee/forums?a=tpc&s=6941912904&f=9701967776&m=9051943028&r=9051943028#9051943028):
quote:
There is a recent myth being propagated in the news media that goes like this:
In a quail hunting accident, a man was hit by a shotgun blast from an alleged range of 30 yards. The shooter had fired a Perazzi 28-gauge shotgun, using factory rounds with #7-1/2 shot. (In this myth, the shotgun blast was referred to as "spray" or "peppering." Instead of using the phrase, "He was shot," the spokesperson said, "He caught some spray.")
The shotgun blast struck the victim in the chest, neck and face, and was sufficient to knock the man down, and to penetrate his hunting vest, his shirt, undershirt, skin, and ribcage. At least one pellet lodged in or adjacent to the victim's heart, later causing an "atrial fib" episode while in the hospital.
My question is: Can the Mythbusters put this myth to the test, and confirm of bust the notion that such severe damage could be done at the supposed range of 30 yards?
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2006 : 13:51:28 [Permalink]
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Well done, 'mooner. We shall see, we hope.
Another thought rattling around in my battered skull is that we really havent had a decent description of Mr. Whittington's injuries. Could they be a lot worse that what we are hearing? Perhaps not a haven for my house 'possum to get shit-faced with friends, but pretty bad none the less. Close range shotgun wounds, in any gauge and weight of shot, can be pretty ghastly.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2006 : 15:31:01 [Permalink]
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The medical press briefing this am was scant but I think the picture is clearing. He has at least one pellet next to or in the heart. They are awaiting a ct scan to pinpoint it. He's supposedly in ICU for privacy which I find suspicious since he was out then back in and I'm sure they have less expensive (for the hospital) private rooms. Maybe they didn't want to move him back and forth like they do with other patients. For the rest of us, you get moved out of ICU in the middle of the night if your condition warrants.
And the spokes people refuse to count the number of pellets. They make it sound like it's too hard for them to count past 50 or something.  If one pellet penetrated to the heart, and the pellets hit face neck and shoulder including part of the chest I think one could estimate how many pellets that is likely to be.
Another note of sarcasm.
It was Cheney's worst moment and he'll "never forget the horrible sight". Gee, Dick, now you have the faintest idea what the thousands of soldiers you sent to war on false pretenses will have to remember all their lives.
Poor Brownie "felt abandoned". And Chertoff had a similar ironic comment. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2006 : 17:17:15 [Permalink]
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Surprisingly, the posters over at the Mythbusters site are very angry with my suggested test. They are displaying little scientific curiosity.
They want me to accept the witnesss, to "move on." One says with assumed authority that he's seen that kind of shotgun pattern at 30 yards many times, and that #7-1/2 shot "can still cause a severe wound" at 30 yards. They're piling on. I would appreciate some backup over there, Gun-Boys:
http://community.discovery.com/groupee/forums?a=tpc&s=6941912904&f=9701967776&m=9051943028&r=2411973028#2411973028
B: Thanks for the further medical briefing analysis. Very telling, I think, that they won't tell the public how many shot are in Whittington's body. Why not just give the press the x-rays and let them count? ; )
filthy: I'm sure they are much worse than we are being told. Certainly not the "superficial at best" "spraying" or "peppering" we been told about. Of course, no photos of the wounds are around, but I bet poor Harry looks a sight.
This is looking more and more like the old joke that starts, "Your mother is on the roof."
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 02/16/2006 18:37:20 |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2006 : 17:32:37 [Permalink]
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Be wrote: quote:
Another note of sarcasm.
It was Cheney's worst moment and he'll "never forget the horrible sight". Gee, Dick, now you have the faintest idea what the thousands of soldiers you sent to war on false pretenses will have to remember all their lives.
Poor Brownie "felt abandoned". And Chertoff had a similar ironic comment.
It's really odd how the big issues like that often don't fire people up as much as a mere hunting accident. But sometimes laughter is all there is left to chip away at seriously dangerous people like Elmer "Darth Cheney" Fudd.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2006 : 19:07:51 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner
Surprisingly, the posters over at the Mythbusters site are very angry with my suggested test. They are displaying little scientific curiosity.
They want me to accept the witnesss, to "move on." One says with assumed authority that he's seen that kind of shotgun pattern at 30 yards many times, and that #7-1/2 shot "can still cause a severe wound" at 30 yards. They're piling on. I would appreciate some backup over there, Gun-Boys:
http://community.discovery.com/groupee/forums?a=tpc&s=6941912904&f=9701967776&m=9051943028&r=2411973028#2411973028
B: Thanks for the further medical briefing analysis. Very telling, I think, that they won't tell the public how many shot are in Whittington's body. Why not just give the press the x-rays and let them count? ; )
filthy: I'm sure they are much worse than we are being told. Certainly not the "superficial at best" "spraying" or "peppering" we been told about. Of course, no photos of the wounds are around, but I bet poor Harry looks a sight.
This is looking more and more like the old joke that starts, "Your mother is on the roof."
I checked it out and frankly, I don't think I'll bother. I'd just get banned from another one.
In order to claim the title of "Mythbuster," one must first be a skeptic, and, judging from from what I read of the site, these guys ain't. Get them beyond the easy ones: bigfoot, mothman, Kil Batboy, yoo-foes, and so forth, and they're not in it. O'course, I'd be delighted to entertain them on the topic them in here.
Hey, tell Shovel 81 that I said any Harley Davidson built later than 1963 sucks Honda exhaust! 
On another note, I've read that Whittington will be released from the hospital in a day or two and be all but dancing the hootchy-coo next week. It is a sad commentary on this administration that nothing can be taken as read from it.
And Cheney could have and most likely should have been charged with Reckless Endangerment. The same laws apply to that draft-dodging corporate whore that apply to thee and me. quote:
It was Cheney's worst moment and he'll "never forget the horrible sight". Gee, Dick, now you have the faintest idea what the thousands of soldiers you sent to war on false pretenses will have to remember all their lives.
Didn't exactly make Whittington's day either, although it was certainly the high point of it.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2006 : 19:34:40 [Permalink]
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filthy frothed: quote:
I checked it out and frankly, I don't think I'll bother. I'd just get banned from another one.
In order to claim the title of "Mythbuster," one must first be a skeptic, and, judging from from what I read of the site, these guys ain't. Get them beyond the easy ones: bigfoot, mothman, Kil Batboy, yoo-foes, and so forth, and they're not in it. O'course, I'd be delighted to entertain them on the topic them in here.
Can't really say I blame you, filthy. I'm thinking of ending my own sojourn there as a lost cause.
I was really surprised to find such a close-minded mentality over there in the forum. Most of those drooling yahoos probably watch the show for the explosions alone, not the science. I'm sure the actual Mythbuster crew is much better, but I gotta privately agree with the guy who crowed that the show would never touch the topic. There's no censorship as effective as self-censorship.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 02/16/2006 19:39:11 |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2006 : 23:48:33 [Permalink]
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White House to Press: "Enough Already!"
(http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/02/16/cheney/index.html)
The usual arrogance of Scott McClellan in not answering press questions has now escalated into essentially telling the press to shut the fuck up (CNN):
quote:
The White House, which has faced a barrage of questions from reporters all week about the shooting and the delay in disclosing it, seemed to grow weary of the story Thursday. A spokesman said that Cheney has "pretty thoroughly addressed the questions that were raised."
"I think the American people are looking at this and saying, 'Enough already. Let's focus on the priorities that are most important to this nation,' " Scott McClellan said, urging reporters not to "overanalyze" the situation. "If there's additional information the vice president's office thinks is appropriate to share, I'm sure they will."
"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain"
Whatever else this Vice President knows, I'm sure we'll never hear a peep of it from his office, and certainly not from Scott McClellan.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 02/17/2006 02:41:39 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 02/17/2006 : 02:49:01 [Permalink]
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If what I have read is correct, there were some 10 people attending this little shoot-'em-up. Thus far, we have only become aquainted with 2 of them. I wonder who the rest are -- they too, might have a story to tell.
I think it is the attitude I saw at Mythbusters that repelled me. It is not dissimiliar to what shows up in here, now and again. No curiosity, no questions, and a snotty reply toward those who would inquire. I admit that I didn't browse the whole site, so I might be forming an opinion from too small a sample.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 02/17/2006 : 08:29:08 [Permalink]
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quote:
Hey, tell Shovel 81 that I said any Harley Davidson built later than 1963 sucks Honda exhaust!
Guess I shouldn't tell you about my v-rod then? hehe!
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 02/17/2006 : 10:08:47 [Permalink]
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He shot me down, bang bang,
That awful sound, bang bang;
I hit the ground... bang bang...
My baby shot me down.
Some song whose name I fail to remember.
[/useless post of the day] |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 02/17/2006 : 11:51:54 [Permalink]
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That's OK, Siber. We know you meant well.
I think I need to stick my nose into the mythbuster site business. I'll let you know the outcome later.
Also pointed out re the Cheney-Hume interview, Whittington is both one of Cheney's "good friends" and "an acquaintance, really."
Hearing Bush claim the emotional turmoil he saw on Cheney's face was so absurd. It rivals the "I think about it every.. single.. day" comment about having sent 2400+ men and a few women to their deaths in Iraq. |
| Edited by - beskeptigal on 02/17/2006 11:52:29 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 02/17/2006 : 12:11:43 [Permalink]
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Whittington has spake thus: quote:
The hunter shot by Vice President Dick Cheney said it "was just an accident" and reassured investigators alcohol was not involved, according a county sheriff's report.
In Texas, Harry Whittington "explained foremost there was no alcohol during the hunt and everyone was wearing the proper hunting attire of blaze orange," reported Kenedy County Sheriff's Department Chief Deputy Gilberto San Miguel Jr.
The county sheriff's office closed its investigation without filing any charges. The department's report supported Cheney's account of the accident that injured the 78-year-old lawyer during a quail hunting trip on a private ranch in Texas.
Cheney told an investigator that he did not see his hunting partner while aiming for a bird. The report included the first public account from Whittington, interviewed from his hospital bed Monday.
And further down: quote:
Bush described Cheney as extremely distraught since he shot Whittington.
"The vice president was involved in a terrible accident and it profoundly affected him," Bush said during a photo opportunity with Colombian President Alvaro Uribe. "Yesterday when he was here in the Oval Office, I saw the deep concern he had about a person who he wounded."
Hmm, yes.... Distraught..... Indeed.....
From what I understand, Whittington is a pretty big cheese in the TX Republican party. I sort'a have the feeling that, some time down the road, when all has been forgotten, Cheney might find himself in a dimly-lit, sound-proofed room somewhere in Houston with his still-attached testicles stuck in a blender, it's switch set to frappe.
Or something less messy (and noisy) but equally horrible from a political aspect, and this won't be due merely to the desires of a perforated lawyer. This will be because he has committed an unforgivable sin: he's made the Party look like, instead manly and macho hunters, a bunch of boozey assholes who don't know how to handle firearms. To the whole world.
Just a thought...
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 02/17/2006 : 12:18:58 [Permalink]
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B wrote: quote:
Hearing Bush claim the emotional turmoil he saw on Cheney's face was so absurd. It rivals the "I think about it every.. single.. day" comment about having sent 2400+ men and a few women to their deaths in Iraq.
Indeed. Bush has all the empathy one would expect in a highly successful sociopathic mass murderer. I really think any ability to sense the emotions of others that Bush once might have had was burned out in his earlier years through his cocaine and alcohol abuse.
A dog, quite literally, has more human empathy than does Bush. Dogs, but not wolves or chimps, can from puppyhood read human emotions from body language and facial expressions. In their tens of thousands of years of close association with Homo sap, Canis familiaris have somehow acquired somethimg like the essential human "theory of mind" mutations that make most humans capable of the kind of empathy that allows cooperative society to function. Bush is on a par with, or behind, chimps and wolves in this ability, as are so many of his sociopathic gang.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 02/17/2006 : 12:29:50 [Permalink]
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You leave the mythbusters alone, without them (and South Park) its back to the dark ages for skeptics, as far as public awareness is concerned.
Oh and they never professed to be Skeptics, which is why they wont be commiting TV suicide with an anti-creation or anti-Dick Cheney show. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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