|
|
|
Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
 Posted - 03/31/2006 : 19:51:43 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
quote:
Originally posted by Bill scott
quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
and it's fucking annoying.
Are you whining?
No. I'm expressing my exasperation about you being unwilling to understand what we saying to you, and your childish need to constantly mis-interpreting the things we write, as you just did.
quote:
I thought that was a neo-con atribute?
Whining is a "poor persecuted (evangelical) Christian" attribute.
quote:
constantly mis-interpreting the things we write, as you just did.
Give me a few examples please.
quote:
Whining is a "poor persecuted (evangelical) Christian" attribute.
Except for I am not whining, you are. Go ahead and call my mocking of your beliefs, and you belief system, childish. It is a craft the SFN crew has mastered to precision... |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
|
 |
|
|
R.Wreck
SFN Regular
USA
1191 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2006 : 20:36:55 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by Bill scott:
Go ahead and call my mocking of your beliefs, and you belief system, childish. It is a craft the SFN crew has mastered to precision...
I would never call you childish, Bill. Children are capable of learning. |
The foundation of morality is to . . . give up pretending to believe that for which there is no evidence, and repeating unintelligible propositions about things beyond the possibliities of knowledge.
T. H. Huxley
The Cattle Prod of Enlightened Compassion
|
|
|
|
filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2006 : 02:54:18 [Permalink]
|
The Straw Man Fallacy. quote:
Etymology:
"Straw man" is one of the best-named fallacies, because it is memorable and vividly illustrates the nature of the fallacy. Imagine a fight in which one of the combatants sets up a man of straw, attacks it, then proclaims victory. All the while, the real opponent stands by untouched.
|
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
|
| Edited by - filthy on 04/01/2006 02:58:10 |
|
|
|
Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2006 : 05:30:56 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by Bill scottquote:
constantly mis-interpreting the things we write, as you just did.
Give me a few examples please.
Rebecca Morelle's article: Martian existence? <snip> "She will discuss whether a Martian biosphere once existed by examining research into the carbon chemistry of Mars. "
Reading the article (and relating it to the various hypothesis on abiogenesis) it is clear that Martian existance referes to biotic molecules on Mars, and that such molecules was transported here by asteroids created by cataclysmic events on Mars. "Martian" meaning "Of Mars origin, coming from Mars".
Bill scott: "This same dogmatic view also thinks martians may have stoped by at some point in time and droped off all the elements we were missing for life, as well."
Bill writes "martians" as walking talking aliens, which is preposterous in the light of the context of the article. That's what makes Bill's claim a straw-man. Saying that martian seeding (as in: biotic material originating on Mars, brought to Earth by cataclysmic events) is dogma is a blatent lie. Shame on Bill. It's a hypothesis among many others.
Let's have a look at another example:
http://www.skepticfriends.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5725&whichpage=3#87491
Dr. Mabuse: The Casimir-effect is evidence that particles may spontaneously form, without out a cause.
The usage of the word "may" is the same as in "you may press the button at any time". It is questionable if the word "may" needed to be in that sentace in the first place. An oversight on Mabuse's behalf, who thought Bill had basic comprehension skills.
Bill scott: May is the key word here and my whole point. The atheist's entire worldview, when examined closely, is nothing but a house of cards built on pure speculations and hundreds, if not thousands of maybes. Maybe it was eternal matter? Maybe it was quantum mechanics? Maybe it was infinite universes?
Here Bill equates "may" with maybe. Instead of reading it in context as "The Casimir-effect is evidence that particles does spontaneously form, without out a cause." Bill decides that "may" can be interpreted as questioning: Maybe the Casimir effect is evidence of virtual particles, maybe particles can form spontaneously.
The lesson here is obvious: Bill is incapable of interpreting the written word outside the context of his fundamentalistic religious world-view. Anyone who wants to communicate with him needs to make short distinct sentences that leaves no possibility what-so-ever to be mis-interpreted. Because if Bill gets the chance, he certainly will try.
 |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
|
|
|
Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2006 : 08:58:33 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by Bill scott
(bill) So you would rather be entertained with cartoon videos and martian stories?????
Nah, I'd rather stick to the truth - which, by the way, does not bend to any of the existing religion's wishes. |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
|
|
|
|
beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2006 : 11:32:58 [Permalink]
|
Bill, why should anyone believe a collection of writings from various people, (as in human people), that was put together by an elitist group of men calling themselves a Canon, when much of what is in that book contradicts itself, contains stories that have been proved wrong by overwhelming evidence and, which isn't any more convincing than any other religion of which there are many?
You have been hoodwinked. |
|
|
|
Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2006 : 01:16:38 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by Siberia
quote:
Originally posted by Bill scott
(bill) So you would rather be entertained with cartoon videos and martian stories?????
Nah, I'd rather stick to the truth - which, by the way, does not bend to any of the existing religion's wishes.
Yes, go on... |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
|
|
|
|
Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2006 : 01:52:29 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
quote:
Originally posted by Bill scottquote:
constantly mis-interpreting the things we write, as you just did.
Give me a few examples please.
Rebecca Morelle's article: Martian existence? <snip> "She will discuss whether a Martian biosphere once existed by examining research into the carbon chemistry of Mars. "
Reading the article (and relating it to the various hypothesis on abiogenesis) it is clear that Martian existance referes to biotic molecules on Mars, and that such molecules was transported here by asteroids created by cataclysmic events on Mars. "Martian" meaning "Of Mars origin, coming from Mars".
Bill scott: "This same dogmatic view also thinks martians may have stoped by at some point in time and droped off all the elements we were missing for life, as well."
Bill writes "martians" as walking talking aliens, which is preposterous in the light of the context of the article. That's what makes Bill's claim a straw-man. Saying that martian seeding (as in: biotic material originating on Mars, brought to Earth by cataclysmic events) is dogma is a blatent lie. Shame on Bill. It's a hypothesis among many others.
Let's have a look at another example:
http://www.skepticfriends.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5725&whichpage=3#87491
Dr. Mabuse: The Casimir-effect is evidence that particles may spontaneously form, without out a cause.
The usage of the word "may" is the same as in "you may press the button at any time". It is questionable if the word "may" needed to be in that sentace in the first place. An oversight on Mabuse's behalf, who thought Bill had basic comprehension skills.
Bill scott: May is the key word here and my whole point. The atheist's entire worldview, when examined closely, is nothing but a house of cards built on pure speculations and hundreds, if not thousands of maybes. Maybe it was eternal matter? Maybe it was quantum mechanics? Maybe it was infinite universes?
Here Bill equates "may" with maybe. Instead of reading it in context as "The Casimir-effect is evidence that particles does spontaneously form, without out a cause." Bill decides that "may" can be interpreted as questioning: Maybe the Casimir effect is evidence of virtual particles, maybe particles can form spontaneously.
The lesson here is obvious: Bill is incapable of interpreting the written word outside the context of his fundamentalistic religious world-view. Anyone who wants to communicate with him needs to make short distinct sentences that leaves no possibility what-so-ever to be mis-interpreted. Because if Bill gets the chance, he certainly will try.
quote:
Rebecca Morelle's article: Martian existence? <snip> "She will discuss whether a Martian biosphere once existed by examining research into the carbon chemistry of Mars. "
Reading the article (and relating it to the various hypothesis on abiogenesis) it is clear that Martian existance referes to biotic molecules on Mars, and that such molecules was transported here by asteroids created by cataclysmic events on Mars. "Martian" meaning "Of Mars origin, coming from Mars".
Bill scott: "This same dogmatic view also thinks martians may have stoped by at some point in time and droped off all the elements we were missing for life, as well."
Bill writes "martians" as walking talking aliens, which is preposterous in the light of the context of the article. That's what makes Bill's claim a straw-man. Saying that martian seeding (as in: biotic material originating on Mars, brought to Earth by cataclysmic events) is dogma is a blatent lie. Shame on Bill. It's a hypothesis among many others.
(bill) A blatant lie, oh, that is rich, doc. That is called jest and satire. I am surprised that you are having trouble picking up on that. The full time SFN crew has appeared to have mastered the craft. Oh, and btw, an asteroid conveyer belt carrying the missing building blocks for life back to earth from mars, almost as comic as Marvin the Martian dropping them off in his cosmic Rambler. What a grasping for straws the creation will resort to, in order to deny his creator. Sad.
quote:
Dr. Mabuse: The Casimir-effect is evidence that particles may spontaneously form, without out a cause.
The usage of the word "may" is the same as in "you may press the button at any time". It is questionable if the word "may" needed to be in that sentace in the first place. An oversight on Mabuse's behalf, who thought Bill had basic comprehension skills.
Bill scott: May is the key word here and my whole point. The atheist's entire worldview, when examined closely, is nothing but a house of cards built on pure speculations and hundreds, if not thousands of maybes. Maybe it was eternal matter? Maybe it was quantum mechanics? Maybe it was infinite universes?
Here Bill equates "may" with maybe. Instead of reading it in context as "The Casimir-effect is evidence that particles does spontaneously form, without out a cause." Bill decides that "may" can be interpreted as questioning: Maybe the Casimir effect is evidence of virtual particles, maybe particles can form spontaneously.
(bill) Doc, the whole naturalist worldview is a house of cards built on a foundation of maybe, what if, could have been, let us imagine, just-so, we think, which you prop up with your self proclamation of the label “science.”
quote:
The lesson here is obvious: Bill is incapable of interpreting the written word outside the context of his fundamentalistic religious world-view. Anyone who wants to communicate with him needs to make short distinct sentences that leaves no possibility what-so-ever to be mis-interpreted. Because if Bill gets the chance, he certainly will try.
(bill) Code for: watch out for what you say, because Bill will try to take you literally.
|
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
|
| Edited by - Bill scott on 04/02/2006 06:38:07 |
|
|
|
Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2006 : 02:09:53 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
Bill, why should anyone believe a collection of writings from various people, (as in human people), that was put together by an elitist group of men calling themselves a Canon, when much of what is in that book contradicts itself, contains stories that have been proved wrong by overwhelming evidence and, which isn't any more convincing than any other religion of which there are many?
You have been hoodwinked.
(bill) What does any of that have, at all, to do with cosmic astroid conveyer belts and the spotty fosil record of evidence for ToE at the Field Meuseum? Are you trying to change topics again? |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
|
|
|
|
filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2006 : 06:52:50 [Permalink]
|
You obviously know as little about the fossil record as I know about brain surgery, Bill.
|
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
|
|
|
|
Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2006 : 08:53:34 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by Bill scott
(bill) Doc, the whole naturalist worldview is a house of cards built on a foundation of maybe, what if, could have been, let us imagine, just-so, we think, which you prop up with your self proclamation of the label “science.”
LMFAO! Now I get it!
You're jesting!
Saying that "the whole naturalist worldview is a house of cards" is just satire... I'm sorry, it has to be the language barrier. English is not my native language, you're just too subtle for me. So you actually don't believe the drivel you're typing. Whew, you really got me there.
quote:
(bill) Code for: watch out for what you say, because Bill will try to take you literally.
Well, obviously we have to be more careful about what we write, since we all work from completely different frames of reference. When this happens, misunderstandings are bound to happen. I'm so glad you explained it to me. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
|
|
|
R.Wreck
SFN Regular
USA
1191 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2006 : 11:55:34 [Permalink]
|
Bill, you have spent countless words here in a lame, vain, attempt to counter the theory of evolution. You have failed not least because you don't know nearly enough about it to mount any kind of a challenge. (By the way, have you ever even stepped foot into a natural history museum?).
Be that as it may, you have also failed to offer any kind of plausible alternative to evolution. It's time to put up or shut up, Bill. Tell us your explanation for the diversity of life on planet Earth. With details. Please remember it needs to be supported by all the available evidence. And references would help.
Let's hear it Bill. Here's your chance to tell it like you see it. |
The foundation of morality is to . . . give up pretending to believe that for which there is no evidence, and repeating unintelligible propositions about things beyond the possibliities of knowledge.
T. H. Huxley
The Cattle Prod of Enlightened Compassion
|
|
|
|
beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2006 : 12:19:47 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by Bill scott
quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
Bill, why should anyone believe a collection of writings from various people, (as in human people), that was put together by an elitist group of men calling themselves a Canon, when much of what is in that book contradicts itself, contains stories that have been proved wrong by overwhelming evidence and, which isn't any more convincing than any other religion of which there are many?
You have been hoodwinked.
(bill) What does any of that have, at all, to do with cosmic astroid conveyer belts and the spotty fosil record of evidence for ToE at the Field Meuseum? Are you trying to change topics again?
Somehow I knew you wouldn't answer. Is that because you can't?
It has to do with your answers to every post in every thread. If this is what underlies your denial of observed evidence I thought I'd just get right to the source of your disagreement with everyone here instead of fooling around with absurd arguments. |
|
|
|
Hawks
SFN Regular
Canada
1383 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2006 : 15:36:07 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by Bill scott
My God left plenty of evidence.
The problem with using an omnipotent god to explain anything is that is an instant any kind of evidence becomes useless. This god can interfere with natural processes at will and there is thus no way of distinguishing natural events from supernatural ones. Any supposedly natural event could actually have been performed by a god. Likewise, any supernatural event could be made to "look" natural (no matter what your criteria are for distinguishing these events). In essence, any talk about your god leaving behind evidence of his work is absolutely meaningless. |
METHINKS IT IS LIKE A WEASEL
It's a small, off-duty czechoslovakian traffic warden! |
|
|
|
Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2006 : 08:00:00 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by R.Wreck
Bill,
Let's hear it Bill. Here's your chance to tell it like you see it.
DESIGN
Recognizing design is the easy part and many have no problem with admitting such conclusions:
Molecular biologist Dr Michael Denton, writing as an agnostic:
"Alongside the level of ingenuity and complexity exhibited by the molecular machinery of life, even our most advanced [twentieth century technology appears] clumsy … It would be an illusion to think that what we are aware of at present is any more than a fraction of the full extent of biological design. In practically every field of fundamental biological research ever-increasing levels of design and complexity are being revealed at an ever-accelerating rate."
The world-renowned crusader for Darwinism and atheism, Prof. Richard Dawkins, states:
"We have seen that living things are too improbable and too beautifully “designed” to have come into existence by chance."
Biochemist Dr Michael Behe:
"… systems of horrendous, irreducible complexity inhabit the cell. The resulting realization that life was designed by an intelligence is a shock to us in the twentieth century who have gotten used to thinking of life as the result of simple natural laws. But other centuries have had their shocks, and there is no reason to suppose that we should escape them."
Just a little snippet of scientists, secular and non-secular, who see the fingerprints of design, when an unbiased look and conclusion is honestly given.
WHY DESIGN
We have found enormous complexity in the human cell. DNA code was discovered as the operating instructions for the cells, which contained the required information for life functions, from the point of conception. Don't programs need a programmer or can randomness be the blind programmer as well?
Dr Lee Spetner, a highly qualified scientist who taught information and communication theory at Johns Hopkins University:
"But in all the reading I've done in the life-sciences literature, I've never found a mutation that added information."
"All point mutations that have been studied on the molecular level turn out to reduce the genetic information and not to increase it."
"The NDT [neo-Darwinian theory] is supposed to explain how the information of life has been built up by evolution. The essential biological difference between a human and a bacterium is in the information they contain. All other biological differences follow from that. The human genome has much more information than does the bacterial genome. Information cannot be built up by mutations that lose it. A business can't make money by losing it a little at a time."
Richard Dawkins recognizes this problem of needing ‘machinery' before life can begin to operate:
"The theory of the blind watchmaker is extremely powerful given that we are allowed to assume* replication and hence cumulative selection. But if replication needs complex machinery, since the only way we know for complex machinery ultimately to come into existence is cumulative selection, we have a problem."
Dr Werner Gitt, Director and Professor at the German Federal Institute of Physics and Technology:
"A code system is always the result of a mental process (it requires an intelligent origin or inventor) … It should be emphasized that matter as such is unable to generate any code. All experiences indicate that a thinking being voluntarily exercising his own free will, cognition, and creativity, is required."
"There is no known natural law through which matter can give rise to information, neither is any physical process or material phenomenon known that can do this."
Note: * I fo |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
|
|
|
 |
|
|
|
Topic Locked
