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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 04/16/2006 : 13:14:55 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Kil
http://www.waroneaster.org/download-flyers/
Sure, lets call the parents liars... Good plan. Gorgo, how can you defend these?
Damn Kil! Are they actually passing that crap out to other people's children?
I might agree with the sentiment, but I don't see myself volunteering for their army, if such it be. Assholes...! 
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2006 : 14:15:39 [Permalink]
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I agree that this kind of thing's ridiculous. There's more than a fine line between not being subject to superstition, while expecting not to be persecuted, and telling children that their religious parents are liars.
Me, I'm tolerant of religion, while not being silent about its absurdities. I expect the religious to tolerate my irreligion, while being welcome to criticize it. Messing with people's kids rubs me the wrong way. I would not tolerate such behavior from religious people, and don't see it as acceptable from atheists.
History (Soviet Communists, Khymer Rouge, etc.) has shown that atheists can be just as bigoted, even as cultish, as religious people. The difference is, we faithless people have no duty to God to justify such zealous behavior. Only a severe personal hatred of religion, or political agendas, could provide such motivation. Thank No-God, most atheists and agnostics are not such bigoted assholes.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2006 : 14:18:25 [Permalink]
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I think Brian Flemming is a little bit on the adolescent side, but I don't see anything there that calls parents liars. Do you think it's a good idea to lie to kids as though they're toys to be played with? Do you think it's a good idea to lie to kids to show that you don't think reality is a very good thing? How can you defend the war on reality?
Again, it's you people that are insulting people, not Flemming. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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| Edited by - Gorgo on 04/16/2006 14:19:34 |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2006 : 14:20:59 [Permalink]
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Now O'Reilly claims it was only two incidents and isn't a war. Didn't he start the controversy off? quote:
First of all, there is no attack on Easter. Only two dumb incidents, one in St. Paul, Minnesota, where a secretary was asked to take down decorations featuring the Easter Bunny. And one in Georgia, where an Easter event was changed to a spring event. After pressure, it's back to an Easter event. So unlike Christmas, the secular left has avoided fostering Easter controversies this year.
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2006 : 15:06:20 [Permalink]
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Well, Gorgo, yes I do think these flyers, such as the one above, are aimed at kids, and are telling them their parents are lying to them about Jesus.
"Sometimes grown-ups try to trick children into being good by making up scary stories. That's kind of mean, isn't it?"
If a minor child of mine was handed a similar flyer by some religious nut trying to convince the kid that I was telling her atheistic lies to keep her in line, that religious guy would have a serious problem with me.
Tolerance, or intolerance, can work either way. I'm not questioning the legality of the flyers, or their Constitutional protection, but I am saying they are intrusive and bigoted.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2006 : 15:06:34 [Permalink]
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quote:
Therefore I am all in favor of anything that attempts to bring people to reality based thought processes.
I agree. This ridiculous idea that people are "morons" or assholes because one disagrees with what they're doing just tells me that some people are angry. It doesn't further any discussions.
It's also a ridiculous idea that because you would like to see people stop fearing reality, that you hate them. That's like most Christians who think that because you're an atheist, you want to have sex with the devil and kill all Christians.
Good people have screwy ideas. I sure have them, as you all do. There's nothing wrong with trying to educate people and have fun doing it. Bishop Sheen smoked. If I say that smoking isn't healthy, does that mean I'm an asshole for hating religious people?
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I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2006 : 15:08:33 [Permalink]
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quote:
If a minor child of mine was handed a similar flyer by some religious nut trying to convince the kid that I was telling her atheistic lies to keep her in line, that religious guy would have a serious problem with me.
Actually, most of the world is telling your kid that. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2006 : 15:14:31 [Permalink]
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Gorgo mentioned: quote:
Actually, most of the world is telling your kid that.
And most of the world is about to get a knuckle sandwich.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 04/16/2006 15:30:50 |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2006 : 15:18:15 [Permalink]
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Gorgo wrote:quote:
I don't see anything there that calls parents liars.
Maybe not using that phrasing, but they most certainly do instruct children not to trust or believe their parents. quote:
Do you think it's a good idea to lie to kids as though they're toys to be played with? Do you think it's a good idea to lie to kids to show that you don't think reality is a very good thing? How can you defend the war on reality?
No religious people lie to their kids. A lie is an intentional deception.
The theologies of liberal Christianity are NOT delusional. Obviously as an atheist I think they are literally wrong about the existence of metaphyical things, but I cannot know they are wrong or that I am right. I can know fundies are wrong because they make claims that go against plain evidence, which liberal Christians do not.
Humanistic Christianity raises human dignity as much as atheistic Humanism, and it does so because it puts humans first in this life, with the belief that as a benevolent and transcendant being, God most wants humans to express their love for Him through their loving actions toward each other.
Liberal Christians have the same approach to ethics and worldly values as Humanists. I identify with them more strongly than I identity exclusively with atheism. But for that matter, I identify with being human even more strongly than I identify with being an Humanist and a liberal.
The problem with angry atheists is that they have fallen right into the same primitive trappings as racists and nationalists and fundamentalists: they identify with their ideology more than they identify with their own humanity, and in this way they are unable to deal with the realities of uncertainty and mysteries in life. I view such thinking as weak, unenlightened, inhumane, and dangerous.
Edited to fix a typo - the one where the word "NOT" is in all caps. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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| Edited by - marfknox on 04/16/2006 15:58:13 |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2006 : 15:25:50 [Permalink]
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| And again, since you call people morons, I classify you as an angry atheist. No one called anyone a liar. I agree that this is not a perfect thing to do. Most things aren't, however. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2006 : 15:51:20 [Permalink]
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Gorgo wrote: quote:
I agree. This ridiculous idea that people are "morons" or assholes because one disagrees with what they're doing just tells me that some people are angry. It doesn't further any discussions.
Are you just reading the words "morons" and "assholes" and just ignoring all the explanations that back-up those insults. quote:
It's also a ridiculous idea that because you would like to see people stop fearing reality, that you hate them. That's like most Christians who think that because you're an atheist, you want to have sex with the devil and kill all Christians.
Most Christians do not think that or even anything like that. And I agree with you that probably a lot of people doing this flyering don't actually hate Christians, but plenty of them do. Or perhaps a more accurate description is unconstructive and intense anger. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2006 : 15:56:55 [Permalink]
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Gorgo wrote" quote:
No one called anyone a liar.
What are you talking about!? Halfmooner already addressed that by quoting the actual flyer: "Sometimes grown-ups try to trick children into being good by making up scary stories. That's kind of mean, isn't it?" Trying to trick someone in a mean-spirited way is a lie. You have not a leg to stand on!
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"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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dglas
Skeptic Friend
Canada
397 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2006 : 16:00:10 [Permalink]
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| Hmmmm. Watching with interest.... |
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- dglas (In the hell of 1000 unresolved subplots...)
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The Presupposition of Intrinsic Evil
+ A Self-Justificatory Framework
= The "Heart of Darkness"
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2006 : 16:24:10 [Permalink]
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If they are passing such garbage on to other peoples children, they are assholes, little better than Falwell. Period. If my youngest grand daughter came up with such garbage, I'd find out where she got it, then the asshole would have me to deal with, if her father didn't get to the shithead(s) first.
I raised my own children and now, my children are raising theirs.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2006 : 16:25:47 [Permalink]
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quote:
Gorgo:
I agree that this is not a perfect thing to do. Most things aren't, however.
It's far from perfect. It's a dumb thing to do. It's sophomoric and counter productive…
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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