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ktesibios
SFN Regular
USA
505 Posts |
 Posted - 05/01/2006 : 17:35:28 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
Thinking about it, I have to agree with your points. I think I'll switch to "intolerant, overbearing, self-righteous moralists" to describe the "Day of Truth" crowd, 'cause I'm no longer sure that there is a good, single-word descriptor for them.
Have you tried "shithead"? |
"The Republican agenda is to turn the United States into a third-world shithole." -P.Z.Myers |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 05/01/2006 : 17:47:47 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by dv82matt
Most are more deserving of compassion than scorn and hate.
Matt, I thought you'd be more intelligent than that because you are, as I see from Canada. Land of my mothers birth and a great and beautiful country with smart people but now you are acting like some others that post, using words and ideas that I did not state. Looks like I may not be responding to you much more if you are not going to be able to understand another point of view and not twist it around.
I came on here now to say What a Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood it was today. I day without illegals, boy! They need to send INS down to the marchers and arrest all of them. The freeways were clear, driving was a breeze. It was the way LA was 25 years ago. If it could be like this again all the time I wouldn't be moving. Wow!
I called each of my representatives and told them my opinion after I got home from shopping. I spent $20, can't believe I spent that much but it was a treat to buy stuff and support business while the illegals were away.
Actually, the problem is not as much with illegals but like with the schools, it's a population problem. The bottom line should be conception control. We really need less people in the world. |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 05/01/2006 : 18:32:54 [Permalink]
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Matt wrote: quote:
Well yes. I was presuming that we were both agreeing to use the wikipedia definition though. Obviously you are not obligated to do that but it would give us a common ground for continuing this discussion.
Eh... I would say the wikipedia definition isn't singular. But anyway, this is getting kinda silly and I think we have both acknowledged that at this point. My reason for posting this conversation was to bring attention to what I think is a heinous reaction on the part of a faction of the religious right, and to out the "Day of Truth" as being associated with an organization that promotes legal as well as social intolerance of homosexuals. And I think we all here (except Bill) agree that gays should have equal rights and that people who are prejudice against them for purely religious reasons are being, well, buttheads if not "bigots". ;-)
Dave did put it a good way: "intolerant, overbearing, self-righteous moralists", and even though I would take it further when dealing with people who want the actual laws to reflect their intolerance, I see your point about how terms that are too perjorative and emotionally weighty can shut down the lines of communication, even if I don't agree with that in every circumstance. We can agree to disagree on the very fine points anyway. I'm just glad we agree on the big, more important points about equality and human rights. :-) |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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| Edited by - marfknox on 05/01/2006 18:35:28 |
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dv82matt
SFN Regular
760 Posts |
Posted - 05/01/2006 : 18:41:19 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Snake
quote:
Originally posted by dv82matt
Most are more deserving of compassion than scorn and hate.
Matt, I thought you'd be more intelligent than that because you are, as I see from Canada.
Aw gee, I've disappointed you. I am merely asking you to make an arguement based on logic and not on hate.
quote:
Land of my mothers birth and a great and beautiful country with smart people but now you are acting like some others that post, using words and ideas that I did not state.
Do you not hate illegals then? If this is the case then I'm glad to hear it.
quote:
Looks like I may not be responding to you much more if you are not going to be able to understand another point of view and not twist it around.
You are saying that I misunderstood you but you are not specifying how I misunderstood you. I can't read your mind you know.
quote:
I came on here now to say What a Beautiful Day in the Neighborhood it was today. I day without illegals, boy! They need to send INS down to the marchers and arrest all of them. The freeways were clear, driving was a breeze. It was the way LA was 25 years ago. If it could be like this again all the time I wouldn't be moving. Wow!
See this just sounds like you hate them. It doesn't sound compassionate at all to me.
quote:
I called each of my representatives and told them my opinion after I got home from shopping. I spent $20, can't believe I spent that much but it was a treat to buy stuff and support business while the illegals were away.
Not sure what you mean here. Just reminiscing I suppose.
quote:
Actually, the problem is not as much with illegals but like with the schools, it's a population problem. The bottom line should be conception control. We really need less people in the world.
So you're saying the problem is not with the illegals themselves but more of a general population problem to which the illegals are contributing and you would advocate some sort of conception control scheme to combat this population problem is that right?
Could you delve further into this conception control program? Would it apply only to illegals or to all Americans? Would it be voluntary or mandatory? Would the procedure be reversable or permanent. I have so many questions about this. It sounds facinating. |
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dv82matt
SFN Regular
760 Posts |
Posted - 05/01/2006 : 18:53:56 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by marfknox
Dave did put it a good way: "intolerant, overbearing, self-righteous moralists", and even though I would take it further when dealing with people who want the actual laws to reflect their intolerance, I see your point about how terms that are too perjorative and emotionally weighty can shut down the lines of communication, even if I don't agree with that in every circumstance. We can agree to disagree on the very fine points anyway. I'm just glad we agree on the big, more important points about equality and human rights. :-)
I agree. Been fun though.  |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 05/01/2006 : 19:18:58 [Permalink]
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Matt wrote to Snake: quote:
You are saying that I misunderstood you but you are not specifying how I misunderstood you.
Boy does that sound familiar. I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you, Matt. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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trogdor
Skeptic Friend
198 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2006 : 18:38:52 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by dv82matt
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
While dictionary definitions of words may lag a few years behind the times, the compilers do attempt to define words as they're being used by the general populace. This gives us a modicum of evidence that for most people, the word 'bigot' does not include implications of viciousness or hate.
Yeah I guess so but nonetheless is 'a community intolerant of crime' really a bigoted community? I thought the definition was way off due to that but maybe not.
the "community against crime" would only be bigoted if they want to infringe on the criminals rights.
quote:
quote:
1) Unwilling to tolerate differences in opinions, practices, or beliefs, especially religious beliefs.
2) Opposed to the inclusion or participation of those different from oneself, especially those of a different racial, ethnic, or social background.
3) Unable or unwilling to endure or support: intolerant of interruptions; a community intolerant of crime.
It just seems to water the term 'bigot' down so much that it's not even a negative thing anymore.
maybe so.
quote:
quote:
To inject a bit of humor which is particularly apt:Bigot: One who is obstinately and zealously attached to an opinion that you do not entertain.
- Ambrose Bierce, The Cynic's Word Book, 1906 (later The Devil's Dictionary)
That's pretty good. 
As a slightly off topic rant, a few days ago, I was walking around with some of my friends. we were accosted by a man on a street corner protesting gay rights. as some of my friends were gay, we started talking to him. At one point he said "I do not hate gay people. I mearly want them to be filled with Jesus's Love"
one of my friends then said " I bet you fantisize about getting filled with Jesus's Love all the time!" 
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all eyes were on Ford Prefect. some of them were on stalks.
-Douglas Adams |
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dv82matt
SFN Regular
760 Posts |
Posted - 05/03/2006 : 13:26:03 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by marfknox
Matt wrote to Snake: quote:
You are saying that I misunderstood you but you are not specifying how I misunderstood you.
Boy does that sound familiar. I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you, Matt.
Unfortuanately you appear to be right. I was hoping Snake would attempt to prove you wrong. Ah well, maybe someday.
quote:
Originally posted by trogdor
the "community against crime" would only be bigoted if they want to infringe on the criminals rights.
I suppose, but that caveat doesn't exist in the definition.
quote:
As a slightly off topic rant, a few days ago, I was walking around with some of my friends. we were accosted by a man on a street corner protesting gay rights. as some of my friends were gay, we started talking to him. At one point he said "I do not hate gay people. I mearly want them to be filled with Jesus's Love"
one of my friends then said " I bet you fantisize about getting filled with Jesus's Love all the time!"
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 05/04/2006 : 23:37:04 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by dv82matt
So you're saying the problem is not with the illegals themselves but more of a general population problem to which the illegals are contributing and you would advocate some sort of conception control scheme to combat this population problem is that right?
Could you delve further into this conception control program? Would it apply only to illegals or to all Americans? Would it be voluntary or mandatory? Would the procedure be reversable or permanent. I have so many questions about this. It sounds facinating.
Matt, I could see from the beginning of your post that you are being silly so I have to confess I didn't read it through but at the bottom I see you did ask a question so I'll answer.
China has a great idea. Tax people who want to have more than one child and don't give them benefits if they do. Which is the reverse of the USA policy, here they encourage people to keep having children irresponsibly and give them tax credits when they do and welfare if they aren't tax paying citizen.
The world needs more people, Mother Teresa did a great job in India not promoting conception control. We should take all of those people and bring them here too, right?
Now that I've answered you, please stop being so silly, I have to study for a test and don't have time for nonsense. If you have honest questions and really want to discuss this, that's fine but being sarcastic and angry doesn't help. |
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dv82matt
SFN Regular
760 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2006 : 02:38:06 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Snake
Matt, I could see from the beginning of your post that you are being silly
Silly? Hmmm. Not really. There was a wee bit of sarcasm at the very start but that's all.
quote:
so I have to confess I didn't read it through...
Bit of a shame that. I do appreciate your frankness here, but clearly it's gonna be impossible to communicate with you if you can't be bothered to read and respond to posts. No offence, but I'd rather not waste my time. |
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