Skeptic Friends Network

Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?
Home | Forums | Active Topics | Active Polls | Register | FAQ | Contact Us  
  Connect: Chat | SFN Messenger | Buddy List | Members
Personalize: Profile | My Page | Forum Bookmarks  
 All Forums
 Our Skeptic Forums
 Religion
 Fundamentalists HATE Noah's Ark!
 New Topic  Topic Locked
 Printer Friendly Bookmark this Topic BookMark Topic
Previous Page | Next Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 8

filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 05/12/2006 :  03:40:12   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Kil

It's time to gather up a few of Filthy's posts and publish them as articles...

Modesty forbids comment......

I hope you'll give me a chance to clean some that stuff up, first. I wrote a lot of it before I'd learned to link in the sentence and put up images.

Anyhow, I appreciate it....




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

Go to Top of Page

moakley
SFN Regular

USA
1888 Posts

Posted - 05/12/2006 :  04:38:38   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send moakley a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Bill scott

quote:
Originally posted by filthy

‘Tis true, my friends, ‘tis true; they loathe, despise, and outright hate that wretched Flood bilge with a malevolence they usually reserve for Democrats, Communists, atheists, sex because it feels good, anyone named Clinton, and those who accept the Theory of Evolution, whatever their names might be.

Of course, you'll never get the first one of ‘em to admit that....


... apologetics for Noah ... apologetics for god ...

Sorry Bill, but your bible does not say anything about a series of miracles by god in order to overcome the logistical nightmare that was Noah's given task. He and 7 other adults. filthy has simply taken the story as presented in your sacred tome and pointed out it's many problems. And why biblical inerrantist such as yourself are required to "make shit up" to support the flood story.

Where did all the water come from? Where did all the water go? These are fair question for people who do not find offense in questioning the authority of the bible or its human authors.

It should not be a sin to think, although I do believe that willful ignorance should be a sin. Why the bible, or any sacred text, has done more harm than good.

edited: and to or

Life is good

Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous
Edited by - moakley on 05/12/2006 04:40:25
Go to Top of Page

Bill scott
SFN Addict

USA
2103 Posts

Posted - 05/12/2006 :  06:18:31   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Bill scott a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by pleco

The only difference is that you have zero, nada, zilch, evidence other than your book. That is the truth. Period. No amouth of blathering will change that. No amount of twisting the words in your book will expose any physical evidence. You have nothing, and you will always have nothing. That is why you have to say, by default, "Goddidit".

Of course your god could do it. Why do you have to state the obvious? But without leaving any trace other than what was written in that book? Why the cover up? The prankster god, or just testing faith?

Your version of religion is rather pathetic. Other religions don't have to have crutches like this. Why does yours? Is it that intellectually weak?

Oh, and in this case the "naturalist" would not say what you stated - you are confusing your twisted view of evolution with the subject at hand. A "naturalist" says that it is not possible within the realm of known physical laws. This does not mean that a god couldn't do it. It just means that we have no evidence for it. I guess you can't take your blinders off to see that.

BTW, we now know, since you never ever admit it, that you are just a plain jane, bible thumpin', run-of-the-mill fundie christian. 'Bought time you fessed up, even if it was involuntary. We still wonder why you hid it all this time.

You have any college degrees from any degree mills? Just curious, since that seems to follow the intellectually dishonest.




quote:
The only difference is that you have zero, nada, zilch, evidence other than your book.


(bill) Your ignorance shows.


quote:
That is the truth. Period.


(bill) So pleco is the holder of truth. After all truth is exclusive so someone has to be right, while others are wrong. If he says it is truth it must be.


quote:
No amouth of blathering will change that. No amount of twisting the words in your book will expose any physical evidence. You have nothing, and you will always have nothing.


(bill) You'd make a great trial layer P. (Not) My favorite is when you refute entire posts with "liar".

Judge: He's your witness counselor Pleco.

Pleco: Lair. OK, we rest your honor...




quote:
That is why you have to say, by default, "Goddidit".


(bill) Your absurd. The whole foundation of my worldview states that Yahweh is the creator and sustainer of all that exists in our cosmos. What part of "creator and sustainer of all that exists" do you not understand?

Pleco: Bill, See that brand new car sitting on that car lot over there? Bill, who assembled that into a complete car?

Bill: Well looking at the VIN numbers I can tell you that this car was assembled at the Ford assembly plant in Louisville Kentucky with genuine UAW employees.

Pleco: I see. What about the engine? Who assembled that onto the frame of the car?

Bill: Well, as I said this car was assembled in the Louisville Kentucky plant by some of the UAW's best.

Pleco: I see. Again with the Louisville Kentucky plant. Ok Bill, who assembled all those body panels onto that fine looking car?

Bill: Well, as I said this car was assembled in the Louisville Kentucky plant by some of the UAW's best.

Pleco: Again with the Louisville Kentucky plant, Bill. What is that your default answer?

Bill: Yon need admitted, dude.





quote:
Of course your god could do it. Why do you have to state the obvious?


(bill) Because you keep asking, over and over and over...



quote:
But without leaving any trace other than what was written in that book? Why the cover up? The prankster god, or just testing faith?


(bill) Yahweh left more then a trace, he left the entire creation, including yourself. Seek and you will find. Of course do not seek and you will not find. You can have the writing on the wall and still refuse reality. God has given man that prerogative.




quote:
Your version of religion is rather pathetic.


(bill) Maybe someday your blinders will be removed?




quote:
Other religions don't have to have crutches like this. Why does yours? Is it that intellectually weak?


(bill) Again, you are being absurd an so many different levels.

Bill: I believe that Yahweh is the creator of all that exists and is the sustainer of all that exists as well.

Pleco: OK Bill, then in your worldview please tell us how a global flood could have taken place? Oh yeah, in your explanation your not allowed to account for any creator, let alone Yahweh, as I reject your God, Bill.

Bill: So you want me to explain my worldview without referencing to Yahweh as the creative and sustaining agent even though Yahweh, as the creative and sustaining agent, is what I believe?

Pleco: Well yes, that's right.

Bill: That is like me asking you to explain the diversity in all the forms of life that we see on planet earth? Oh, and BTW, you cannot reference the ToE in your explanation or random mutations being guided by natural selection.

Pleco: Bill, stop trying to muddy the waters. We are talking about you here not me.

Bill: You make me laugh P...



quote:
Oh, and in this case the "naturalist" would not say what you stated - you are confusing your twisted view of evolution with the subject at hand. A "naturalist" says that it is not possible within the realm of known physical laws.


(bill) That is right. There is so much unknown to the naturalist that his/her worldview is assumptions piled upon assumptions. For the naturalist to pretend they, definitively, know what the earth was like in the days of Noah, let alone 4.5 billion years ago, is absurd on so many different levels. The naturalist worldview is a house of cards with each card representing assumptions. Pull just one

"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-

"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-

The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-

Go to Top of Page

Robb
SFN Regular

USA
1223 Posts

Posted - 05/12/2006 :  07:40:32   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Robb a Private Message
I have not thought about the latent heat being released and the earth warming up to a crazy temperature. It was an interesting article.

But it points out what most christians believe (except YEC's). That the flood cannot be confirmed or even proved by modern science. Scientifically it could not have happened. But if you believe in a God that created everything from nothing, the flood is not an impossibility. Yes, god did it. There has been alot of discussions on this site that God is outside the realm of what science can explain. Why then do you filthy try to disprove God with science? Whats the point? Non believers will say great job, believers will say God did it.


Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington
Go to Top of Page

filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 05/12/2006 :  07:55:53   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Robb

I have not thought about the latent heat being released and the earth warming up to a crazy temperature. It was an interesting article.

But it points out what most christians believe (except YEC's). That the flood cannot be confirmed or even proved by modern science. Scientifically it could not have happened. But if you believe in a God that created everything from nothing, the flood is not an impossibility. Yes, god did it. There has been alot of discussions on this site that God is outside the realm of what science can explain. Why then do you filthy try to disprove God with science? Whats the point? Non believers will say great job, believers will say God did it.

I do not try to disprove God at all. Nothing could be more futile, especially if you don't believe that such a thing exists. But that doesn't mean that I can't have a little fun at God's, or at least the concept of God's expense. As well as pass along some pretty good information, as can be seen in the OP. Did you know previous to this that pangolins were anteaters and related to both armadillos and sloths? Or that honey could poison a hummingbird?

I have no problem with God or the concept; just with some of God's followers who present myth as fact; legend as history.




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

Edited by - filthy on 05/12/2006 08:01:17
Go to Top of Page

Bill scott
SFN Addict

USA
2103 Posts

Posted - 05/12/2006 :  08:01:26   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Bill scott a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Robb

I have not thought about the latent heat being released and the earth warming up to a crazy temperature. It was an interesting article.

But it points out what most christians believe (except YEC's). That the flood cannot be confirmed or even proved by modern science. Scientifically it could not have happened. But if you believe in a God that created everything from nothing, the flood is not an impossibility. Yes, god did it. There has been alot of discussions on this site that God is outside the realm of what science can explain. Why then do you filthy try to disprove God with science? Whats the point? Non believers will say great job, believers will say God did it.






quote:
Scientifically it could not have happened


I would say that based off many, many, assumptions, and off of their finite and limited knowledge, they have concluded that scientifically it could not have happened.

"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-

"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-

The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-

Go to Top of Page

Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13470 Posts

Posted - 05/12/2006 :  09:21:24   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message
quote:
Bill Scott:
I would say that based off many, many, assumptions, and off of their finite and limited knowledge, they have concluded that scientifically it could not have happened.


Actually Bill, scientifically, it really could not have happened. You just can't have it both ways. If it happened it was a supernatural event completely outside of any possible scientific explanation. The fact is, there is no evidence in the geological record that a worldwide flood occurred. And there is lots evidence to the contrary.

What I wonder (which I understand you have no interest in addressing) is why god would hide all the evidence for such a catastrophe even if the event was supernatural.

Bill, if you were even halfway as interested in where the evidence that supports a world wide flood went as you are of poking holes in evolutionary theory, I would be impressed. Actually, I am impressed. Your lack of any ability to think critically is a wonder to behold. Apparently, all thought processes along those lines ends at the first page of Genesis.

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
Go to Top of Page

BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 05/12/2006 :  10:32:35   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message
Science never stood in the way of a REAL fundie! Like our friends the Flat-Earth Society.

"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini
Go to Top of Page

Chippewa
SFN Regular

USA
1496 Posts

Posted - 05/12/2006 :  10:36:15   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Chippewa's Homepage Send Chippewa a Private Message
Actually, it probably did happen. A gigantic natural dam broke 7000+ years ago; a freshwater lake was replaced by the saltwater Black Sea, and from that event various myths, tales and legends were told, one of which made its way into the Bible. By that time, the ancient huge region that was flooded was referred to as "the world."

Diversity, independence, innovation and imagination are progressive concepts ultimately alien to the conservative mind.

"TAX AND SPEND" IS GOOD! (TAX: Wealthy corporations who won't go poor even after taxes. SPEND: On public works programs, education, the environment, improvements.)
Go to Top of Page

leoofno
Skeptic Friend

USA
346 Posts

Posted - 05/12/2006 :  11:06:03   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send leoofno a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Bill scott
(bill) Yahweh left more then a trace, he left the entire creation, including yourself. Seek and you will find. Of course do not seek and you will not find. You can have the writing on the wall and still refuse reality. God has given man that prerogative.



Could you explain why you think it is so obvious that God created the universe? Is it because of some vague feeling that “it's all too beautiful and complex and fine-tuned” to have been created without the input of an intelligent agent? Or is there something more specific?

I'm not trying to be a smart-ass. I really want to know. While I have come to the conclusion that there is no God, I also realize that, deep down, I would like to believe. I mean, who wouldn't want to accept the promise of eternal happiness if you only had to believe and follow a certain set of rules? After all, the rules are mostly common-sense and I follow most of them already. It wouldn't be too difficult.

The problem is that I have gotten to the point in my life where I need a solid body of evidence before I believe in something so fantastic, not just the say-so of others. I think most people ‘believe' because they have been brought up being told, over and over, that the beliefs they are being brought up with are true. It is engrained and reinforced by both family and community, and becomes a fundamental part of their identity. However, there are many different Faiths, and most are mutually exclusive. They can't all be right, and perhaps none are. That is, I think, what started me down the road to the rejection of my beliefs. At some point I began to ask myself what it was that made my beliefs correct and the others wrong. I found that my faith was based on the assertions of others, and that the evidence that was presented was not very convincing.

So that's where I stand right now. I have abandoned beliefs in the supernatural, but I keep looking for that solid body of evidence to convince me otherwise. That's why I am interested in your claims. You seem confident and assured of your beliefs.

If you've got it, I'd like to see a line of evidence that was not based on an appeal to either authority or incredulity. I know I've asked you a very similar question a little while ago in another thread, but I was hoping maybe you could single out just one argument you find particularly convincing.


P.S. It occurs to me that this may look like an attempt to hijack the thread, but I'b be stunned if it did.

"If you're not terrified, you're not paying attention." Eric Alterman
Go to Top of Page

BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 05/12/2006 :  12:39:24   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message
leoofno, I regret to inform you that clear, well-word and logical arguements are to Bill Scott as bullets are to Supermans chest.

"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini
Go to Top of Page

leoofno
Skeptic Friend

USA
346 Posts

Posted - 05/12/2006 :  12:59:24   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send leoofno a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf

leoofno, I regret to inform you that clear, well-word and logical arguements are to Bill Scott as bullets are to Supermans chest.


I hope you're wrong in this case. Something must convince him he's right. I'd like to know what that is.

"If you're not terrified, you're not paying attention." Eric Alterman
Go to Top of Page

Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4826 Posts

Posted - 05/12/2006 :  13:03:56   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by leoofno

quote:
Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf

leoofno, I regret to inform you that clear, well-word and logical arguements are to Bill Scott as bullets are to Supermans chest.


I hope you're wrong in this case. Something must convince him he's right. I'd like to know what that is.



So far, we've been able to narrow it down to Holy fiat.

Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion
Go to Top of Page

R.Wreck
SFN Regular

USA
1191 Posts

Posted - 05/12/2006 :  15:11:35   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send R.Wreck a Private Message
quote:
(bill) Your absurd. The whole foundation of my worldview states that Yahweh is the creator and sustainer of all that exists in our cosmos. What part of "creator and sustainer of all that exists" do you not understand?



What part of "Why did he make so many really bad designs?" don't you understand, Bill?


The foundation of morality is to . . . give up pretending to believe that for which there is no evidence, and repeating unintelligible propositions about things beyond the possibliities of knowledge.
T. H. Huxley

The Cattle Prod of Enlightened Compassion
Go to Top of Page

Chippewa
SFN Regular

USA
1496 Posts

Posted - 05/12/2006 :  16:54:32   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Chippewa's Homepage Send Chippewa a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by leoofno

...I mean, who wouldn't want to accept the promise of eternal happiness if you only had to believe and follow a certain set of rules?...

Anyone who thinks critically wouldn't. Who could accept eternal happiness knowing that a loved one was condemned to eternal torment simply because they questioned or disobeyed one or two of those set of rules? To accept eternal happiness in that case is to accept being brainwashed.

Anyone with a love of humanity would be appalled at the notion that eternal punishment magically proclaimed from on-high, and established within one culture, applies to all people of a different culture, who are themselves unknowing of those rules or have rules of their own.

Diversity, independence, innovation and imagination are progressive concepts ultimately alien to the conservative mind.

"TAX AND SPEND" IS GOOD! (TAX: Wealthy corporations who won't go poor even after taxes. SPEND: On public works programs, education, the environment, improvements.)
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 8 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Previous Page | Next Page
 New Topic  Topic Locked
 Printer Friendly Bookmark this Topic BookMark Topic
Jump To:

The mission of the Skeptic Friends Network is to promote skepticism, critical thinking, science and logic as the best methods for evaluating all claims of fact, and we invite active participation by our members to create a skeptical community with a wide variety of viewpoints and expertise.


Home | Skeptic Forums | Skeptic Summary | The Kil Report | Creation/Evolution | Rationally Speaking | Skeptillaneous | About Skepticism | Fan Mail | Claims List | Calendar & Events | Skeptic Links | Book Reviews | Gift Shop | SFN on Facebook | Staff | Contact Us

Skeptic Friends Network
© 2008 Skeptic Friends Network Go To Top Of Page
This page was generated in 0.23 seconds.
Powered by @tomic Studio
Snitz Forums 2000