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pleco
SFN Addict

USA
2998 Posts

Posted - 05/23/2006 :  11:38:08   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit pleco's Homepage Send pleco a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Bill scott
Thanks for the invite. Fortunately, or unfortunately, I have very little time to spend on this forum. Therefore it is my best interest to stick with one thread at a time least my time will get to thinly stretched. Besides, we have hit on my abiogenesis beliefs on numerous occasions over the past few months so I am afraid that the thread would just turn into a regurgitation of past conversations.



You're welcome.

I will continue to remind you until you decide to post, no matter how often you post in other threads (what with so little time you have) and no matter how much copy/paste you do from apparently prolific googling, because I beleive that you are now dodging the question.

by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart.
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4826 Posts

Posted - 05/23/2006 :  12:08:20   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Bill scott

quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
[br
Ah, but you've decided to puss out on the invite as you can't seem to find the time. How about we close down this thread so that you would have the time and opportunity to advance and defend your ideas on your conjecture of abiogenesis?



I will make it easier on you yet, VD. Just go back and reread my posts for the past three months and it will save a lot of time for everyone.



I have, I summarized your position in my first response in this thread to you. You have provided no evidence or logic to support your extradimentional diefic genesis conjecture.

Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion
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Bill scott
SFN Addict

USA
2103 Posts

Posted - 05/23/2006 :  13:15:33   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Bill scott a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer

quote:
Originally posted by Bill scott

quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
[br
Ah, but you've decided to puss out on the invite as you can't seem to find the time. How about we close down this thread so that you would have the time and opportunity to advance and defend your ideas on your conjecture of abiogenesis?



I will make it easier on you yet, VD. Just go back and reread my posts for the past three months and it will save a lot of time for everyone.



I have, I summarized your position in my first response in this thread to you. You have provided no evidence or logic to support your extradimentional diefic genesis conjecture.





quote:
quote:
I will make it easier on you yet, VD. Just go back and reread my posts for the past three months and it will save a lot of time for everyone.




I have, I summarized your position in my first response in this thread to you. You have provided no evidence or logic to support your extradimentional diefic genesis conjecture.



(bill) Good. Then you will have read the posts where I asked numerous times why most of the naturalist on this forum always revert back to changing the subject when their stories holes are being prodded? First thing on this thread.

Forum piece: A methane-producing microbe may offer some clues to the origin of life... story...

Bill: Where did this microbe come from?

Pleco: Nice try, Bill. What is your abiogenesis theory then?

Bill: My theory? I thought this was a forum on the meth-producing microbe which may, or may not, have something to do with life's origin?

Pleco: Stop dodging the topic, Bill.

Bill: Dodge the topic? Is this, or is this not, a thread on the meth-producing microbe that may, or may not, have been involved in life origins?

Pleco: It was Bill until you decided to ask questions on the piece so we decided to switch topics in mid-thread in an effort to try and put you on the defensive and end this Q&A game of yours, Bill.

Bill: I thought questioning just-so stories and exposing holes was a natural response for the skeptical mind?

Pleco: Quit dodging the subject of the thread Bill, which is your abiogenesis theory.

Bill: I thought the subject I responded to was meth-producing microbes and the origins of life?

Pleco: Your dodging Bill.

Bill: Your hallucinating...

Pleco: Your dodging.

Bill: You really need a hobby of some sort...

"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-

"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-

The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-

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Fripp
SFN Regular

USA
727 Posts

Posted - 05/23/2006 :  13:19:47   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Fripp a Private Message
Bill,

You colossal coward. How long did it take you to type that crap? Why not spend your oh-so-precious time explaining your theory of How-It-All-Began?

Why are you such a gutless turd?

Crap or get off the pot.

We're waiting......

"What the hell is an Aluminum Falcon?"

"Oh, I'm sorry. I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a small thermal exhaust port that's only 2-meters wide! That thing wasn't even fully paid off yet! You have any idea what this is going to do to my credit?!?!"

"What? Oh, oh, 'just rebuild it'? Oh, real [bleep]ing original. And who's gonna give me a loan, jackhole? You? You got an ATM on that torso LiteBrite?"
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Hawks
SFN Regular

Canada
1383 Posts

Posted - 05/23/2006 :  14:40:22   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Hawks's Homepage Send Hawks a Private Message
When I noted that this thread had gone from one reply yesterday to a full 19 today, I made the prediction that one of our regular "deists" must be behind this somehow. My prediction was true. I am so smart. SMRT.

quote:
(bill) Non-sense, Kil. I just happen to be very skeptical of the current abiogenesis theory/hypothesis/story being offered. Being skeptical usually brings with it a lot of questions as I am sure you can relate to this. This skepticism refuses to allow me to pass over obvious just-so explanations with out asking for some more information in regards to the obvious holes. I understand that this will not sit well with the naturalist as his/her sacred cow of materialism is being prodded, but hey, why not question something for a change?

Why do you keep on doing this, Bill? Time and again you are saying that because science doesn't have all the answers, it can't have any answers at all. Guess what, Bill. There will always be "holes" in scientific theories. From a scientific perspective, we can't know everything.

Your point about your request for more "information" somehow doesn't sit well with our "holy cow of materialism" is moot. Science is comfortable with there being gaps in knowledge. These gaps are actually the reason for there being science in the first place.

Side note: I am fully aware that the stuff I wrote above have been written and explained to Bill (by several people [myself included] in lots of different ways) NUMEROUS times previously.

METHINKS IT IS LIKE A WEASEL
It's a small, off-duty czechoslovakian traffic warden!
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 05/23/2006 :  15:03:04   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
"Just-so stories...."

Bill, you owe me another irony meter!

So like, what's your version of it, or is that information classified?




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 05/23/2006 :  16:44:26   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message
Bill, what do you think the goal of abiogensis research is? If you think it is to know the first organism that was on this planet and exactly how it formed, you are way off.

This is because that is an unreachable goal. There is no way we could know that, unless we had a time machine. But, if we find a way to create life that occurs in nature and is relatively simple, then we can say that it is the most likely way that life started on earth.

Your questions are completely valid. I'm sorry we don't have answers to them. I really wish we did. But science isn't about knowing the answers, it's about finding them. And that's what this article is, an attempt to get closer to the mystery of how life started.

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 05/23/2006 :  17:21:08   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message
BS said:
quote:
Because the subject was methane-producing microbes and their part in the origins of life and not Bill's personal abiogenesis theory.


Still up to your usual straw-man lies eh?

That or you obviously are incapable of understanding the content of the article.

In no way, as you state, does the article imply that a methane producing microbe had any part in the origin of life.

It suggests that the energy storage mechanisms that this microbe uses could have existed independently from any life form, providing the energy needed for the formation of larger and more complex organic molecules.

But once again, you demonstrate that you are only interested in telling lies and using whatever immoral method available to try and argue against evolution and abiogenesis.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13467 Posts

Posted - 05/23/2006 :  18:39:05   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message
quote:
Me:
Hey Bill. I don't see in the article any claim that abiogenesis has been worked out and answered. I just see that there are people working on the problem and are checking an avenue of research that they happened upon that looks promising. I think it is safe to say that no one would claim to know exactly where this new evidence will lead, beyond more research.

What I see in your replies is the attitude of someone who doesn't even think this, or any “scientific” research into origins is worthwhile. Even if some of your questions are valid, why on earth should all of those questions be answered now for the research to be valid? You are just demonstrating more of your anti science bias and more ignorance about how science works.

You're a trip Bill.

quote:
Bill:
Non-sense, Kil. I just happen to be very skeptical of the current abiogenesis theory/hypothesis/story being offered. Being skeptical usually brings with it a lot of questions as I am sure you can relate to this. This skepticism refuses to allow me to pass over obvious just-so explanations with out asking for some more information in regards to the obvious holes. I understand that this will not sit well with the naturalist as his/her sacred cow of materialism is being prodded, but hey, why not question something for a change?


Sorry Bill. You can only be a skeptic if your willing to change your view if the hypothesis you originally have doubts about turns out to supported by experimentation and evidence. Since you already have a belief about our origins that is supernatural, not falsifiable and not in the least bit scientific, and since you are only willing to accept evidence that supports your belief, you don't really get to be a skeptic. On the subjects like origins, what you are is a nay-sayer, not a skeptic!

Or are you willing to change your beliefs about our origins?


Edited slighly...

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Bill scott
SFN Addict

USA
2103 Posts

Posted - 05/24/2006 :  08:34:32   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Bill scott a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by pleco

quote:
Originally posted by Bill scott
Thanks for the invite. Fortunately, or unfortunately, I have very little time to spend on this forum. Therefore it is my best interest to stick with one thread at a time least my time will get to thinly stretched. Besides, we have hit on my abiogenesis beliefs on numerous occasions over the past few months so I am afraid that the thread would just turn into a regurgitation of past conversations.



You're welcome.

I will continue to remind you until you decide to post, no matter how often you post in other threads (what with so little time you have) and no matter how much copy/paste you do from apparently prolific googling, because I beleive that you are now dodging the question.




quote:
I will continue to remind you until you decide to post, no matter how often you post in other threads (what with so little time you have) and no matter how much copy/paste you do from apparently prolific googling,


(bill) Suit yourself. And I will continue to ignore you when you revert to your customary childish behavior.



quote:
because I beleive that you are now dodging the question.


Your hallucinating. We just went through this in the Noah's Ark thread last week. Where did the earth, meth-producing microbes and outer space come from in my Christian worldview? They came from the eternal existing creator of all that exists, which I will refer to as God. When I look at the creation it cries out creator in my eyes. The miracle of life is another reason I subscribe to a creator. I gave the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ and his affirmation of the book of Genesis as the biggest reason among many that this creator is in fact the creator we read about in the Judeo-Christian Bible. Yes, I realize that this conversation was not over yet and I will make sure to revisit that thread next. So for you to rattle on and on about how Bill refuses to give his theory on how it all started when we just had the very conversation last week shows me just how confused you remain. Unless by continuing to demand my theory on how it all got started you are wanting me to explain how God created the universe, life etc... Of course demanding that the finite have full knowledge of the infinite or the created be able to answer for the creator would just be more evidence of how confused you remain.

"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-

"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-

The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-

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Bill scott
SFN Addict

USA
2103 Posts

Posted - 05/24/2006 :  08:36:49   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Bill scott a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Fripp

Bill,

You colossal coward. How long did it take you to type that crap? Why not spend your oh-so-precious time explaining your theory of How-It-All-Began?

Why are you such a gutless turd?

Crap or get off the pot.

We're waiting......




Two signs often given when the naturalist sees his sacred cow of a completely materialistic abiogenesis theory being riddled with holes and being scrutinized under the weight of a cross examination from a skeptical non-believer.

1. They will immediately begin attacking the skeptical non-believer's worldview in an effort to put him/her on the defensive and to get the subject off of the obvious bankrupt status the naturalist's abiogenesis theory/hypothesis/story/ramblings has to offer. As demonstrated by Pleco amongst others and...

2. They revert to name calling and weak attempts at personal insults. As demonstrated by fripp amongst others

"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-

"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-

The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-

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pleco
SFN Addict

USA
2998 Posts

Posted - 05/24/2006 :  08:39:26   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit pleco's Homepage Send pleco a Private Message
quote:
They will immediately begin attacking the skeptical non-believer's worldview in an effort to put him/her on the defensive and to get the subject off of the obvious bankrupt status the naturalist's abiogenesis theory/hypothesis/story/ramblings has to offer. As demonstrated by Pleco amongst others and...


Pot...kettle.

by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart.
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Bill scott
SFN Addict

USA
2103 Posts

Posted - 05/24/2006 :  08:41:34   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Bill scott a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Hawks

When I noted that this thread had gone from one reply yesterday to a full 19 today, I made the prediction that one of our regular "deists" must be behind this somehow. My prediction was true. I am so smart. SMRT.

quote:
(bill) Non-sense, Kil. I just happen to be very skeptical of the current abiogenesis theory/hypothesis/story being offered. Being skeptical usually brings with it a lot of questions as I am sure you can relate to this. This skepticism refuses to allow me to pass over obvious just-so explanations with out asking for some more information in regards to the obvious holes. I understand that this will not sit well with the naturalist as his/her sacred cow of materialism is being prodded, but hey, why not question something for a change?

Why do you keep on doing this, Bill? Time and again you are saying that because science doesn't have all the answers, it can't have any answers at all. Guess what, Bill. There will always be "holes" in scientific theories. From a scientific perspective, we can't know everything.

Your point about your request for more "information" somehow doesn't sit well with our "holy cow of materialism" is moot. Science is comfortable with there being gaps in knowledge. These gaps are actually the reason for there being science in the first place.

Side note: I am fully aware that the stuff I wrote above have been written and explained to Bill (by several people [myself included] in lots of different ways) NUMEROUS times previously.




quote:
When I noted that this thread had gone from one reply yesterday to a full 19 today, I made the prediction that one of our regular "deists" must be behind this somehow.


(bill) Lookout Scotland Yard...



quote:
My prediction was true. I am so smart. SMRT.


(bill) Truly a legend in his own mind.






quote:
Why do you keep on doing this, Bill? Time and again you are saying that because science doesn't have all the answers, it can't have any answers at all.


(bill) Where did I say this?



quote:
Guess what, Bill. There will always be "holes" in scientific theories. From a scientific perspective, we can't know everything.


(bill) That is because we were created finite. I keep trying to explain this when it is insisted on by others that I explain the infinite.



quote:
Your point about your request for more "information" somehow doesn't sit well with our "holy cow of materialism" is moot. Science is comfortable with there being gaps in knowledge. These gaps are actually the reason for there being science in the first place.


(bill) Non-sense. My request for more information merely shows that man has no clue how life got started and all these "shot in the dark" attempts to even come up with a plausible hypothesis are simply evidence of this ignorance. To give a naturalist hypothesis on the origin of life the materialist must begin with nothing and go from there. To begin the story with primordial soups and extraterrestrial objects from outer space already in existence and offer no explanation for this existence, or any evidence at all for the story, puts this in the category of wishful thinking at best, and fairytale at worst.

"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-

"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-

The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-

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Fripp
SFN Regular

USA
727 Posts

Posted - 05/24/2006 :  08:42:35   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Fripp a Private Message
You're avoiding the question(s), Bill.

Oh...and you're also a punk

"What the hell is an Aluminum Falcon?"

"Oh, I'm sorry. I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a small thermal exhaust port that's only 2-meters wide! That thing wasn't even fully paid off yet! You have any idea what this is going to do to my credit?!?!"

"What? Oh, oh, 'just rebuild it'? Oh, real [bleep]ing original. And who's gonna give me a loan, jackhole? You? You got an ATM on that torso LiteBrite?"
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Bill scott
SFN Addict

USA
2103 Posts

Posted - 05/24/2006 :  08:43:28   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Bill scott a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by pleco

quote:
They will immediately begin attacking the skeptical non-believer's worldview in an effort to put him/her on the defensive and to get the subject off of the obvious bankrupt status the naturalist's abiogenesis theory/hypothesis/story/ramblings has to offer. As demonstrated by Pleco amongst others and...


Pot...kettle.




So I begain to attack abiogenesis theory and call people names in the Noah's ark thread? Say no...

"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-

"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-

The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-

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