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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
 Posted - 05/24/2006 : 08:48:41 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Fripp
You're avoiding the question(s), Bill.
Oh...and you're also a punk 
Please explain... |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2006 : 09:25:14 [Permalink]
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quote:
Your hallucinating. We just went through this in the Noah's Ark thread last week. Where did the earth, meth-producing microbes and outer space come from in my Christian worldview? They came from the eternal existing creator of all that exists, which I will refer to as God. When I look at the creation it cries out creator in my eyes. The miracle of life is another reason I subscribe to a creator. I gave the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ and his affirmation of the book of Genesis as the biggest reason among many that this creator is in fact the creator we read about in the Judeo-Christian Bible. Yes, I realize that this conversation was not over yet and I will make sure to revisit that thread next. So for you to rattle on and on about how Bill refuses to give his theory on how it all started when we just had the very conversation last week shows me just how confused you remain. Unless by continuing to demand my theory on how it all got started you are wanting me to explain how God created the universe, life etc... Of course demanding that the finite have full knowledge of the infinite or the created be able to answer for the creator would just be more evidence of how confused you remain.
Gracious! Such certainty!
But Bill, what if your world view is clouded by the cataracts of deception? What if no gods exist and the Christ was just another mad rabbi with a following? We see that species of Kool-Aid drinker all the time today, you know. Most come to a sorry end, as indeed, did Jesus.
Why must everything be handed to you in black and white? Why can you not follow the evidence as it is presented, one tiny piece at a time?
Magic, Bill, might someday replace science, if the Republicans have their way, but ceremonial hoo-hah and futile prayer will never be the equal of careful and critical study of the empirical evidence as it is discovered.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Fripp
SFN Regular
USA
727 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2006 : 09:39:40 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Bill scott
quote:
Originally posted by Fripp
You're avoiding the question(s), Bill.
Oh...and you're also a punk
Please explain...
'Twon't work, Bill. Instead of dodging and nitpicking and cherry-picking what issues you choose to argue, step up to plate , Bill. The thread is there. It is YOU who determines how you are going to spend your so-called "limited time" here on this forum.
Explain your theory of How-It-All-Came-To-Be. Don't whine that you've already done it "time and time again". You haven't.
Elucidate us, Bill. |
"What the hell is an Aluminum Falcon?"
"Oh, I'm sorry. I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a small thermal exhaust port that's only 2-meters wide! That thing wasn't even fully paid off yet! You have any idea what this is going to do to my credit?!?!"
"What? Oh, oh, 'just rebuild it'? Oh, real [bleep]ing original. And who's gonna give me a loan, jackhole? You? You got an ATM on that torso LiteBrite?" |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2006 : 10:06:29 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
quote:
Your hallucinating. We just went through this in the Noah's Ark thread last week. Where did the earth, meth-producing microbes and outer space come from in my Christian worldview? They came from the eternal existing creator of all that exists, which I will refer to as God. When I look at the creation it cries out creator in my eyes. The miracle of life is another reason I subscribe to a creator. I gave the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ and his affirmation of the book of Genesis as the biggest reason among many that this creator is in fact the creator we read about in the Judeo-Christian Bible. Yes, I realize that this conversation was not over yet and I will make sure to revisit that thread next. So for you to rattle on and on about how Bill refuses to give his theory on how it all started when we just had the very conversation last week shows me just how confused you remain. Unless by continuing to demand my theory on how it all got started you are wanting me to explain how God created the universe, life etc... Of course demanding that the finite have full knowledge of the infinite or the created be able to answer for the creator would just be more evidence of how confused you remain.
Gracious! Such certainty!
But Bill, what if your world view is clouded by the cataracts of deception? What if no gods exist and the Christ was just another mad rabbi with a following? We see that species of Kool-Aid drinker all the time today, you know. Most come to a sorry end, as indeed, did Jesus.
Why must everything be handed to you in black and white? Why can you not follow the evidence as it is presented, one tiny piece at a time?
Magic, Bill, might someday replace science, if the Republicans have their way, but ceremonial hoo-hah and futile prayer will never be the equal of careful and critical study of the empirical evidence as it is discovered.
quote:
Gracious! Such certainty!
But Bill, what if your world view is clouded by the cataracts of deception? What if no gods exist and the Christ was just another mad rabbi with a following?
(bill) Of course the historical evidence suggests otherwise. Again, I will reopen that thread shortly.
quote:
We see that species of Kool-Aid drinker all the time today, you know. Most come to a sorry end, as indeed, did Jesus.
(bill) Either you failed to read the end or you have forgotten. In the end Jesus triumphs over death it's very self and accends to the right hand of God. A very different ending then the Kool-Aid crowd, indeed.
quote:
Why must everything be handed to you in black and white? Why can you not follow the evidence as it is presented, one tiny piece at a time?
(bill) Because at the rate man is going the sun will long be burned up by the time they come out with their final abiogenesis report, which I am sure will still have the primordial soup and meth-producing microbes already in existence, and I don't have the time to be waiting around that long.
quote:
Magic, Bill, might someday replace science, if the Republicans have their way,
(bill) Maybe. But my hope does not rest in the repub. party.
quote:
but ceremonial hoo-hah and futile prayer will never be the equal of careful and critical study of the empirical evidence as it is discovered.
(bill) I agree. I did not need any prayer, but rather just some plan ol common sense, to blow up the latest materialistic abiogenesis report/theory/hypothesis/story/fairytale/ramblings offered up.
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"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2006 : 11:27:24 [Permalink]
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quote:
(bill) Of course the historical evidence suggests otherwise. Again, I will reopen that thread shortly.
History written by whom and with what agenda? I do not entirely trust history without supporting documentation, and you shouldn't either.
quote:
(bill) Either you failed to read the end or you have forgotten. In the end Jesus triumphs over death it's very self and accends to the right hand of God. A very different ending then the Kool-Aid crowd, indeed.
More magic? In my experience, dead = cold meat. I cannot accept resurections merely on the word of some ancient text. Revive me a corpse and then we'll talk about it. Until then, you might as well be practicing Vodoun.
quote:
(bill) Because at the rate man is going the sun will long be burned up by the time they come out with their final abiogenesis report, which I am sure will still have the primordial soup and meth-producing microbes already in existence, and I don't have the time to be waiting around that long.
Perhaps. But do you prefer a version supported by no more than mere faith?
quote:
(bill) Maybe. But my hope does not rest in the repub. party.
Nor does the hope of anyone with the ability to think coherently.
quote:
(bill) I agree. I did not need any prayer, but rather just some plan ol common sense, to blow up the latest materialistic abiogenesis report/theory/hypothesis/story/fairytale/ramblings offered up.
Can you always rely on "common sense" even when it defies reason? I find myself reminded of the myth of the fang in the boot that killed or injured all in the family that put it on after the original, fatal snakebite. "Common sense" says that it could happen. Herpetology calls "bullshit" on it, and can prove that it's bullshit. And yet, it persists.
The long and short of it is; we will never know it all and that which we will learn will come to us in bits and pieces. And many of those bits will be perhiferal to the subject at hand, as are these microbes, but important in increasing our understanding.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2006 : 12:25:38 [Permalink]
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Bill wrote: quote:
When I look at the creation it cries out creator in my eyes.
We're well off the track of the article about a possible chemical reaction that may have preceded life, and yet is a possible candidate for, or an example of, the kind of chemistry that might have fueled early life. But that's okay, Bill. Your comments certainly did create life in this thread!
Bill, disregarding the article for the moment, positing a divine Creator does nothing at all to solve the mystery of creation from nothing. It only adds another link, another problem further back in time: How was the Creator created?
Just supposing that some human-appearing entity sitting on a cloud said, "Fiat lux!" can provide no comforting logical simplification of the issue. (That is, logically, it can't comfort. I suppose that if one has an idée fixe with that image, it might seem psychologically comforting, and one might even feel compelled to defend such a myth, even using disingenuous arguments. But that's simply not logic.)
In this limited regard, your Biblical Creation theory is no better or worse than the scientific "creation theory" of the Big Bang. Evidence strongly suggests that the Big Bang happened, but nobody really knows what caused it, or came before it -- or even if those questions themselves are valid.
Whatever may have come before them, the difference is that there is strong evidence for the existence of the Big Bang, while there is only a book of ancient myths supporting the Biblical Creator.
So please realize that your constantly repeated fixed idea, or obsession, is itself no evidence at all, even though it's all you've ever given us here. Certainty is no kind of evidence.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2006 : 13:10:12 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by filthy
quote:
(bill) Of course the historical evidence suggests otherwise. Again, I will reopen that thread shortly.
History written by whom and with what agenda? I do not entirely trust history without supporting documentation, and you shouldn't either.
quote:
(bill) Either you failed to read the end or you have forgotten. In the end Jesus triumphs over death it's very self and accends to the right hand of God. A very different ending then the Kool-Aid crowd, indeed.
More magic? In my experience, dead = cold meat. I cannot accept resurections merely on the word of some ancient text. Revive me a corpse and then we'll talk about it. Until then, you might as well be practicing Vodoun.
quote:
(bill) Because at the rate man is going the sun will long be burned up by the time they come out with their final abiogenesis report, which I am sure will still have the primordial soup and meth-producing microbes already in existence, and I don't have the time to be waiting around that long.
Perhaps. But do you prefer a version supported by no more than mere faith?
quote:
(bill) Maybe. But my hope does not rest in the repub. party.
Nor does the hope of anyone with the ability to think coherently.
quote:
(bill) I agree. I did not need any prayer, but rather just some plan ol common sense, to blow up the latest materialistic abiogenesis report/theory/hypothesis/story/fairytale/ramblings offered up.
Can you always rely on "common sense" even when it defies reason? I find myself reminded of the myth of the fang in the boot that killed or injured all in the family that put it on after the original, fatal snakebite. "Common sense" says that it could happen. Herpetology calls "bullshit" on it, and can prove that it's bullshit. And yet, it persists.
The long and short of it is; we will never know it all and that which we will learn will come to us in bits and pieces. And many of those bits will be perhiferal to the subject at hand, as are these microbes, but important in increasing our understanding.
quote:
History written by whom and with what agenda? I do not entirely trust history without supporting documentation, and you shouldn't either.
(bill) I don't, but rather provided 3 independent sources that all corroborated, independently, the resurrection of the historical figure of JC who had been crucified on a Roman cross. I gave testimony of legal experts who declared that if we can't historically make a claim for the resurrection of JC then, pray-tell, what can we definitively know about history? Again, I will open that thread back up shortly.
quote:
quote:
(bill) Either you failed to read the end or you have forgotten. In the end Jesus triumphs over death it's very self and accends to the right hand of God. A very different ending then the Kool-Aid crowd, indeed.
More magic? In my experience, dead = cold meat. I cannot accept resurections merely on the word of some ancient text.
(bill) It does not matter what you accept, but, rather what the evidence looks like when laid beside the evidence for other persons of history, which when done so the debate over the occurrence of the resurrection becomes a moot point.
quote:
Revive me a corpse and then we'll talk about it. Until then, you might as well be practicing Vodoun.
(bill) So not only do you want me to be able explain and have full knowledge of the infinite, but now you want me to duplicate his works as well? I think I will have to get back to you on that one.
quote:
quote:
(bill) Because at the rate man is going the sun will long be burned up by the time they come out with their final abiogenesis report, which I am sure will still have the primordial soup and meth-producing microbes already in existence, and I don't have the time to be waiting around that long.
Perhaps. But do you prefer a version supported by no more than mere faith?
(bill) No. Which is one reason I am very skeptical of materialistic abiogenesis theory, based on no evidence what so ever, and I accept the documented and corroborated historical event known as the resurrection of the Lamb of God who died that you and I could be reconciled to God for our many transgression against him. He died that we may live...
quote:
quote:
(bill) Maybe. But my hope does not rest in the repub. party.
Nor does the hope of anyone with the ability to think coherently.
(bill) I found the division of all politicians into a Repub. or Dem. corner is a waste of time as many dems vote conservative on many issues while many repubs go left.
quote:
The long and short of it is; we will never know it all and that which we will learn will come to us in bits and pieces.
(bill) Which is why I find your insistence that I account for every single detail of the Noah's Ark era and your insistence that your conclusion was not |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Fripp
SFN Regular
USA
727 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2006 : 13:21:50 [Permalink]
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Filthy: Bill, please explain very clearly, and in detail, how Noah, using only Bronze Age tools, was able to build a wooden vessel - a very large wooden vessel - that was able to remain afloat in the most turbulent seas ever known in the history of man. Be aware that wooden ships are notoriously unstable/leaky and that such a feat has NEVER been duplicated.
Bill: God did it.
The rest of the Skeptic Friends forum: Uhh... Bill? Could you perhaps be just a little more detailed in your explanation?
Bill: I can't explain the unexplainable. It's the almighty God after all. I can't be expected to understand how He works... I just know that it is the truth....no explanation necessary. |
"What the hell is an Aluminum Falcon?"
"Oh, I'm sorry. I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a small thermal exhaust port that's only 2-meters wide! That thing wasn't even fully paid off yet! You have any idea what this is going to do to my credit?!?!"
"What? Oh, oh, 'just rebuild it'? Oh, real [bleep]ing original. And who's gonna give me a loan, jackhole? You? You got an ATM on that torso LiteBrite?" |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2006 : 14:21:02 [Permalink]
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quote:
(bill) I don't, but rather provided 3 independent sources that all corroborated, independently, the resurrection of the historical figure of JC who had been crucified on a Roman cross. I gave testimony of legal experts who declared that if we can't historically make a claim for the resurrection of JC then, pray-tell, what can we definitively know about history? Again, I will open that thread back up shortly.
And resurrections have never been repeated? And you are citing lawyers on this? Pul-leese! 
In science, the claim (experiment) must be repeatable. Writings and opinions means nothing if not supported by empirical evidence.
quote:
(bill) It does not matter what you accept, but, rather what the evidence looks like when laid beside the evidence for other persons of history, which when done so the debate over the occurrence of the resurrection becomes a moot point.
Huh? What evidence? More writings by lawyers of things that have nothing to do with law? History is written by the victors, always to their favor. Thus far, according to the evidence, the resurrection comes off as a myth little different than any other.
It is true that what I accept means little for I am merely a minority of one, as are you.
quote:
(bill) So not only do you want me to be able explain and have full knowledge of the infinite, but now you want me to duplicate his works as well? I think I will have to get back to you on that one.
Hey, you've been doing that to us for as long as you've been here. Multiple times, you have insisted that we give you every detail of the abiogenesis and Big Bang hypothesis, and multiple times it has been explained to you why we cannot. But I gotta admit; you're consistent.
quote:
(bill) No. Which is one reason I am very skeptical of materialistic abiogenesis theory, based on no evidence what so ever, and I accept the documented and corroborated historical event known as the resurrection of the Lamb of God who died that you and I could be reconciled to God for our many transgression against him. He died that we may live...
Yeah, right!
Again, we have explained as much as is known about abiogenesis. And you have replied with no better than Biblical myth. The existence of the Holy Lands and the milina-old stories surrounding them is not evidence for any sort of resurrection, nor even walking on water.
quote:
(bill) I found the division of all politicians into a Repub. or Dem. corner is a waste of time as many dems vote conservative on many issues while many repubs go left.
Change the word "many" to "some" and I'll agree with you. Unfortunately, many Democrats have become afflicted with acute pussyism and I'm very pleased to not belong to that party.
quote:
(bill) Which is why I find your insistence that I account for every single detail of the Noah's Ark era and your insistence that your conclusion was not based off of multitudes of assumptions based on more assumptions absurd on so many levels.. For example if there was a fellow named Noah, who 1000's of years back built a boat to make it through the coming flood, then this would have accrued in a world that was created by the Judeo-Christian God. According to the Bible God gave Noah the instructions on how to build his boat. Now if God can create the universe where the universe did not exist before and bring about life, from nothing, where no life existed before, then sustaining Noah and his ark would not be a problem for God. If he did this all supernaturally, or, if he, using his infinite knowledge, gave Noah a schematic to make the boat it makes no difference to the final outcome and we probably will never know, until eternity, by which means God choose to sustain Noah. The point being that sustaining Noah is not going to be a big problem for the creator of the cosmos, weather he chooses to give out intimate details, to his finite creation, on how he does this is irrelevant. Unless you hold to the notion that the finite should have full knowledge of the infinite that is.
Very good, even though I and others have demonstrated that the so-called Flood was and remains a physical impossibility and Noah's alleged vessel would have been about as seaworthy as a soggy hay bale. Broach, hog, sag, twist, founder, and break up with the loss of all hands and cargo in the first hour.
Here is where you have effectively killed the conversation. As soon as you come up with "God done it 'cause God can do anything it wants!" we have come to the end. You see, I can no more disprove the existence of God and the supernatural in general than you can prove it.
A pretty good catch-all for everything, is it not? When in doubt... God done it! [hooray]
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2006 : 15:25:29 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Bill scott
quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
quote:
Originally posted by Bill scott
quote:
it provides a common source of energy for both sides and could be a useful starting point for a compromise, the authors report in the June issue of Molecular Biology and Evolution.
(bill) Starting point? I thought this was new information on life's origins? This piece begins in the middle of the story with the starting point not even mentioned.
Blue emphasis mine.
If your reading comprehension is that bad, then I'm not surprised that you have trouble coping with any and all sciences. It's much easier to sit in front of a minister and like a sponge suck up whatever tripe he spews forth.
Non-sense doc.
Bullshit!
quote:
Those were all perfectly acceptable questions regarding the science of Betsy's piece.
You still don't seem to comprehend what that article was all about. How you can be so ignorant and incapable of understanding the written word, it's a miracle you are even capable of operating a computer.
Let me paraphrase the article for you since you don't seem to be able to put the article in its correct context:
There are two hypothesis regarding what was the first kind of bacteria, and how it worked and what made them tick. The two hypothesis are very different from each other. The new discovery provides evidence of an energy-source that works for both hypothesis of how the first life/bacteria looked like. As such this new discovery leads to a useful starting point for a compromise between the two first-life hypothesis.
The starting point the opening article refers to is the starting of the merger of the two hypothesis, not the starting point of life as you seem to think is means.
BS, your constant effort to mis-interpret much of what we write is getting tiresome. Please refrain from doing so, it's very annoying.
quote:
Of course that is if science is what you are truly interested in and not just pushing some just-so story based upon a hypothesis upon a hypothesis based upon some theory...
This seems to be your belief, and if you decide to think this is how the world is, then I can't stop you.
However, this is not what the real world is. The world is different from what you think it is. Science is the method of finding out the answers to the question: what is the world? How does it work?
Some answers can be answered with extremely high confidence, some answers are only tentative. Some answers will probably never get answered. I can live with that.
Apparently you can't. Abiogenesis in a science in it's infancy. That means that there are no theories with decent levels of confidence. There are many hypothesis, and there are theories that describes different aspects of the necessary components of early life, and it's chemistry. But for now, it's a very incomplete jigsaw puzzle.
The article has identified an important piece of the puzzle though. This is what brings us skeptics excitement. That you do not understand the significance of the piece is symptomatic of your inability to accept that there is a puzzle in the first place.
quote:
As the avid skeptic that you say you are I am very surprised that it was not you who asked where the primordial pond or the methane-producing microbe came from? I know the skeptic in me begged to ask the question...
I didn't have to ask that question, because I know that the answer to the question about the "primordial soup" lies in the theory of how this solar system formed.
The question of where the "methane-producing microbe" came for... is still under investigation. God-did-it is just a cop-out to be used when you are unwilling to follow the evidence, or when it gets too complicated to be easily understood. I don't blame you.
When I was a child I was scared shitless of thunder. Now that I have gotten some understanding of what happens, and why it happens, I think it's one of the most awe-inspiring events one could witness (at a safe distance, say a few hundred meters).
Meteorology isn't an exact science in terms of weather predictions. Right now, Abiogenesis cannot give exact predictions on how the initial life looked like. But we know more today than we did 100 years ago. The same goes for meteorology.
Bill, just because you're ignorant of most of the aspects of the finer aspects of meteorology, does that stop you looking at the weather report on TV and prepare for rain only then they say it's probably going to rain?
Just because evolutionary theory is too complicated for you, and you have willingly chosen to be ignorant about it, doesn't mean that it hasn't important lessons for us to learn, and your ignorance of it doesn't make is less relevant, or less true (in the scientific sense that a theory have much evidence).
Just because Abiogenesis is in its infancy doesn't mean that given enough time a viable theory could not be constructed, many answers of how life could happen may get answered.
Kil is right. Bill you are a nay-sayer because your belief in a deity dictates that whatever evidence is provided by default has to be false or misinterpreted. That is the opposite of being a skeptic. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2006 : 17:05:51 [Permalink]
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Mab, I pointed out to him a page or so ago that his deliberate misrepresentation of that articles info was rather obvious.
The article suggests that the chemistry of energy storage used by this microbe may have occured independently from any life form thus providing a source of useable energy that may have allowed larger organic molecules to form and kickstart the first life form.
You've pointed it out, I've pointed it ou.... BS won't even respond to us calling BS on his deliberate misrepresentation.
He is pathetic-
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2006 : 17:06:46 [Permalink]
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| So far, it appears Methanosarcina acetivorans has more lucid things to say about life's possible origins than does Bill Scott. |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2006 : 17:31:07 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner
So far, it appears Methanosarcina acetivorans has more lucid things to say about life's possible origins than does Bill Scott.
AMEN! |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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verlch
SFN Regular
781 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2006 : 22:03:10 [Permalink]
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You guys just don't "read" between the lines, you seem to read a Super Computer betwix the lines.
You know, the more I look at tiny mycobacterium, the more it resembles dinosaurs and elephants. |
What came first the chicken or the egg?
How do plants exist without bugs in the soil, and bugs in the soil without plants producing oxygen?
There are no atheists in foxholes
Underlying the evolutionary theory is not just the classic "stuff" of science — conclusions arrived at through prolonged observation and experimentation. Evolution is first an atheistic, materialistic world view. In other words, the primary reason for its acceptance has little to do with the evidence for or against it. Evolution is accepted because men are atheists by faith and thus interpret the evidence to cor-respond to their naturalistic philosophy.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. II Timothy 4:3,4
II Thess. 2:11 And for this cause God shall
send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
You can not see the 'wind', but you can see its effect!!!!
Evolution was caused by genetic mistakes at each stage?
Radical Evolution has 500 million years to find fossils of fictional drawings of (hard core)missing links, yet they find none.
We have not seen such moral darkness since the dark ages, coencides with
teaching evolution in schools. (Moral darkness)
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places, EPH 6:12.
"Thus, many scientists embracing naturalism find themselves in the seeming dilemma recently articulated by biochemist Franklin Harold: "We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity [i.e., Darwinian evolution]; but we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical system, only a variety of wishful speculations."
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Hawks
SFN Regular
Canada
1383 Posts |
Posted - 05/24/2006 : 22:04:55 [Permalink]
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quote:
Why do you keep on doing this, Bill? Time and again you are saying that because science doesn't have all the answers, it can't have any answers at all.
(bill) Where did I say this?
Eeeerm, everytime you claim that scientific theories must account for creation ex nihilo (or something other that is totally irrelevant) even though they were never meant to answer for it.
quote:
Your point about your request for more "information" somehow doesn't sit well with our "holy cow of materialism" is moot. Science is comfortable with there being gaps in knowledge. These gaps are actually the reason for there being science in the first place.
(bill) Non-sense. My request for more information merely shows that man has no clue how life got started and all these "shot in the dark" attempts to even come up with a plausible hypothesis are simply evidence of this ignorance.
I suspect that you didn't really address what I actually wrote. It is not nonsense that science is uncomfortable with gaps in knowledge. The raison d'etre of science is to try to fill in those blanks.
quote:
(bill)To give a naturalist hypothesis on the origin of life the materialist must begin with nothing and go from there.
No, bill. Try to understand this. A naturalist hypothesis on the origin of life does not have to account for creation ex nihilo any more/less than a naturalist hypothesis on the origin of the produce in your supermarket would.
Naturalist: These oranges in the fruit section originated from Brazil.
Bill: Your assumption is that there is no infinite god with infinite powers. The origin from Brazil hypothesis doesn't account for the creation of matter from nothing.
quote:
(bill)To begin the story with primordial soups and extraterrestrial objects from outer space already in existence and offer no explanation for this existence, or any evidence at all for the story, puts this in the category of wishful thinking at best, and fairytale at worst.
And to begin the origin from Brazil story with the existence of Brazil and oranges would also be a fairytale. |
METHINKS IT IS LIKE A WEASEL
It's a small, off-duty czechoslovakian traffic warden! |
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