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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
 Posted - 07/10/2006 : 14:07:23 [Permalink]
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| Good to hear, Dave. Thanks for straigtening that out. My apologies. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2006 : 15:59:28 [Permalink]
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I hope that this discussion by all sides can remain focused upon what B. has written in her analysis, and not on old stuff that is not really at issue here. B. seems to have done her homework in her critique of the media.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 07/10/2006 16:00:41 |
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Ghost_Skeptic
SFN Regular
Canada
510 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2006 : 23:18:34 [Permalink]
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Reading about how press releases are presented as news (and now the same is done with video clips) reminds of when I worked for Done Petroleum (then the largest upstream oil company in Canada) as it tottered on the verge of bankruptcy for several years before being bought by Amoco. We could read the next morning's Calgary Herald articles about us on the bulletin board the preceding afternoon. These press releases were used verbatum without attribution. I guess the lazy ass reporters wanted people to think they found things out. There is nothing wrong with reporting what a corporation says as long as the information is presented as a press release with attribution.
I wonder if the PR firms that are getting all this government money are kicking some back to Republican Party in the form of campaign contributions. This is what happened in the Sponsorship Scandal that led to the defeat of the Liberals in the last Canadian federal election. |
"You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. / You can send a kid to college but you can't make him think." - B.B. King
History is made by stupid people - The Arrogant Worms
"The greater the ignorance the greater the dogmatism." - William Osler
"Religion is the natural home of the psychopath" - Pat Condell
"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter" - Thomas Jefferson |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2006 : 03:51:33 [Permalink]
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| Gorgo, thanks for the link. What a colorful poster, I'm sorry RubySue has been absent of late. The first post was all color and no guts and it's going on 4 am. It will be the first thing I get back to when I return to the forum. I'll have to read Ruby's links and further posts before commenting on Chomsky et al. But I merely used their description of the point I was making on the JREF thread. I didn't use any of their work as supporting evidence really. |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2006 : 04:34:07 [Permalink]
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| Again, notice that she used Frontpagemag as a source. David Horowitz and others make a living out of lying about people like Chomsky. That doesn't make me a "Chomsky Robot" for noticing nor does it make Chomsky perfect. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2006 : 04:57:45 [Permalink]
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| One only has to Google- "Ruder Finn" Yugoslavia- to read some interesting things about PR and "humanitarian war." |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2006 : 16:30:27 [Permalink]
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OK I read some more of rubysue. The thing about Chomsky is one doesn't have to agree with someone's political view to look at that person's observations.
There must be lots of people with left, right and center political stands that have concerns about corporate and government propaganda and ever increasing control over what information the majority of people in the country get their world view from.
The rest on this issue seems to be some leftover baggage from previous discussions between Gorgo and others. I have no problem with those issues spilling over to this thread if need be. But if the discussion reached its peak usefulness in other threads it isn't likely to go anywhere in this one.
I posted the thread in JREF because that is where the people drawing incorrect conclusions or expressing doubt about my statements in other threads were. You say that information is controlled or at least manipulated and it garners attacks of, "you must be a conspiracy woo."
I suppose opinion of the degree of this threat varies greatly even in this forum. When I see the political use of propaganda in this country; how successful it has been in the last decade; how gerrymandering voting districts and Ohio/Florida election issues have perhaps installed and perhaps kept and will continue to keep the current people in power; I see a country run by a dictatorial-like group of people.
We are so close to not having a free system of elections if we are not already there. Is this China? Are these people in power now going to be able to keep themselves there? So far they have and by similar tactics as used in countries with mere facades of democracies. One doesn't need a military to suppress free elections.
The corporate media control is a serious but nonetheless a side issue as far as product promotion. The fact corporate wealth is at the heart of the control is certainly key. This is what you see in countries run by dictators. The rich and the people in power team up to keep the status quo. You only need military power supporting the status quo when dissent rears up.
Spying on large numbers of people and developing computer programs to detect dissent and address it with propaganda attacks seems to be one potential step up from focus group market surveys. I'm not saying this is what Bush, et al is doing with all the computer data base mining but I do wonder if it has gotten that far. If it has it wouldn't surprise me.
So I am at the near end of the continuum of how bad is it without being into the conspiracy territory as typically described by the woos. I don't expect everyone else thinks it's that bad. I'm out to convince a few more that it is. |
| Edited by - beskeptigal on 07/11/2006 16:34:17 |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2006 : 03:09:05 [Permalink]
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No, you don't have to agree with Chomsky's politics, and you don't have to agree with everything he says to take something away from what he writes. He voted for Clinton and Gore and he's wealthy, so I think that makes him a wealthy Democrat, although he would disagree with that strongly. (that he supports the Democratic Party, not that he's wealthy)
I don't think I ever got through Manufacturing Consent.
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Herman%20/Manufacturing_Consent.html
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I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2006 : 01:10:08 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo
No, you don't have to agree with Chomsky's politics, and you don't have to agree with everything he says to take something away from what he writes. He voted for Clinton and Gore and he's wealthy, so I think that makes him a wealthy Democrat, although he would disagree with that strongly. (that he supports the Democratic Party, not that he's wealthy)
I don't think I ever got through Manufacturing Consent.
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Herman%20/Manufacturing_Consent.html
From just the conclusion that appears to be an excellent piece, whether you like Chomsky or not. I will have to read the rest. Interesting it is from 1988.
quote:
Furthermore, while there have been important structural changes centralizing and strengthening the propaganda system, there have been counterforces at work with a potential for broader access. The rise of cable and satellite communications, while initially captured and dominated by commercial interests, has weakened the power of the network oligopoly and retains a potential for enhanced local-group access. There are already some 3,000 public-access channels in use in the United States, offering 20,000 hours of locally produced programs per week, and there are even national producers and distributors of programs for access channels through satellites (e.g., Deep-Dish Television), as well as hundreds of local suppliers, although all of them must struggle for funding.
The first part hasn't panned out and cable news is as bad as the rest but the public channel in my area has started showing a lot more quality free speech pieces. (As opposed to the totally wacko and weird religious stuff that is still there.) And there are more free speech pieces on the college radio stations here too. |
| Edited by - beskeptigal on 07/13/2006 01:21:33 |
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Ghost_Skeptic
SFN Regular
Canada
510 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2006 : 01:32:24 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
You say that information is controlled or at least manipulated and it garners attacks of, "you must be a conspiracy woo."
We
know
you
no
woo
As you pointed out this doesn't require a big conspiracy - a lot of it is driven by greed and laziness. It is easy and cheap to to run the canned fake news. |
"You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. / You can send a kid to college but you can't make him think." - B.B. King
History is made by stupid people - The Arrogant Worms
"The greater the ignorance the greater the dogmatism." - William Osler
"Religion is the natural home of the psychopath" - Pat Condell
"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter" - Thomas Jefferson |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2006 : 01:59:15 [Permalink]
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quote:
As you pointed out this doesn't require a big conspiracy - a lot of it is driven by greed and laziness. It is easy and cheap to to run the canned fake news.
Let us not forget to assign the proper ammount of blame onto the consumers of network and cable "news" as well.
The bottom line is simple, if people didn't watch it it wouldn't be on TV. (not for long anyway)
Ratings drive the revenue, and the money is what matters.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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JohnOAS
SFN Regular
Australia
800 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2006 : 17:47:58 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal
JohnOAS might be interested in this addition I just added to the thread about fake news in Aussie newspapers.
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=1764567#post1764567
Interesting, but unfortunately not entirely surprising.
I never buy the newspaper during the week. We do get the two of the major newspapers on Sundays, but to be honest that's mostly so we've got a copy of the weekly TV guide. I used to read the comics from both papers, but it's been months since I've even bothered with that. My wife reads them, but I don't bother. I get a little news from a the web and a few subscribed email postings.
From the SMH article Beskeptical linked to in her post.
quote:
But there is a more serious side to drops. Editors are under pressure to boost circulation in an increasingly difficult market. People are busier. More people are driving or listening to MP3 players, rather than reading newspapers on their way to work.
This is me to a tee. I spend at least 2-3 hours a day in the car, so I go through a lot of podcasts. Most of them aren't "real" news in the conventional sense, but they usually reference the big issues in one way or another.
I also spend a good chunk of my time working for a government agency, so I get more exposure to politics than I would sometimes like in this regard.
Thanks for the link. |
John's just this guy, you know. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2006 : 22:56:28 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dude
Let us not forget to assign the proper ammount of blame onto the consumers of network and cable "news" as well.
The bottom line is simple, if people didn't watch it it wouldn't be on TV. (not for long anyway)
Ratings drive the revenue, and the money is what matters.
The big problem is 49% of voters can dig out the real news and we still have that 51% screwing up the country voting the slick marketers into power, (or a close enough election the extra % can be had by scams and fraud). |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2006 : 22:58:20 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Ghost_Skeptic
[quote]
As you pointed out this doesn't require a big conspiracy - a lot of it is driven by greed and laziness. It is easy and cheap to to run the canned fake news.
Did you notice I had to point out it wasn't a conspiracy but a trend 4 more times answering people's replies in the forum?  |
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