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 Is it just me or has SFN turned into liberal city?
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard

USA
3739 Posts

Posted - 07/20/2006 :  23:16:40  Show Profile  Visit marfknox's Homepage  Send marfknox an AOL message Send marfknox a Private Message
Soooo... which one of you killed all the libertarians, and where'd ya bury their bodies?

You know, 'cause I feel like dancin'.

"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong

Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com

filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 07/21/2006 :  06:13:09   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
Yeh. With a few exceptions, Robb for example, seems that we haven't had an honset conservative in here for a right long time. And the neocons and the religious right (there's an oxymoron for ya) seem to be too big a bunch of pussies to join the fray.

Me, I'm kinda sick of it. It seems that the more scumbaggish the neocons in the government get, the farther left this site goes. Gets a little old after a while.

I think I'll just stick to straight-out skepticism and the ToE, and let the politics alone for a while.

Unless, of course, some ignorant tool(s) of the Republicans and/or their Bible-mistranslating overseers feels put upon and wants to get down and nasty.......

I may have to go off line for a while. My mojo box is all but on it's ass and I'm starting to lose functions. I'm beginning to fear for my documents because some of the functions I've lost are the disc drives. I'm trying to scratch up the $$$ for a new one -- maybe next week.




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 07/21/2006 :  06:33:00   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message
What is a liberal? Clinton is a reasonable right-wing conservative. Bush and his supporters are way over any kind of reasonable line.

I'm more of a leftist than a liberal, if Clinton is a liberal.

These guys, save a few like Conyers, aren't Democrats anymore.

I voted for Ron Paul when he ran for the Libertarian Party. I'm all for the anti Drug War-don't attack other countries-don't give welfare to the wealthy platform. The only thing wrong with Libertarians is that they think there's a "free market" out there somewhere. Well, there are other things wrong with Libertarians maybe, but that's the only thing I could find wrong with Ron Paul.

(edited to say that Clinton is a reasonable conservative only if he is criminally incompetent and had no idea what he was doing with his foreign policy. if he wasn't criminally incompetent, then he's way over the right wing line as well)

I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



Edited by - Gorgo on 07/21/2006 07:19:30
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13463 Posts

Posted - 07/21/2006 :  09:00:22   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo

What is a liberal? Clinton is a reasonable right-wing conservative. Bush and his supporters are way over any kind of reasonable line.

I'm more of a leftist than a liberal, if Clinton is a liberal.

These guys, save a few like Conyers, aren't Democrats anymore.

I voted for Ron Paul when he ran for the Libertarian Party. I'm all for the anti Drug War-don't attack other countries-don't give welfare to the wealthy platform. The only thing wrong with Libertarians is that they think there's a "free market" out there somewhere. Well, there are other things wrong with Libertarians maybe, but that's the only thing I could find wrong with Ron Paul.

(edited to say that Clinton is a reasonable conservative only if he is criminally incompetent and had no idea what he was doing with his foreign policy. if he wasn't criminally incompetent, then he's way over the right wing line as well)

Sigh…

Clinton came in as a liberal but was pushed to the middle by the 94 take over of the house and senate. Mostly, Clinton was a centrist after that. If he hadn't moved to the center he would have been just another failed president like Carter. It was a pragmatic move that worked. Remember that Clinton tried very hard to get universal health care coverage when he was elected. The Republicans torpedoed that by waging a bogus PR campaign that worked.

Clinton did manage to reign in deficit spending and even managed a bit of a surplus, spending wise, that the republicans in office have now completely trashed on the false belief that tax relief to the rich will create jobs and be good for the economy. WRONG!!!! When the conservatives tried to mess with Clinton's budgets, he shut down government and held his ground until the republicans relented.

Even Carter supported NAFTA. Was he a conservative too?

Lyndon Johnson, a liberal, presided over both the greatest advances in civil rights and signed into law the most civil rights legislation of any president ever, even while pursuing the wrong headed Viet Nam war at the same time. See, it used to be that foreign policy was basically non-patrician.

I am a liberal. And I would welcome Clinton back, even though you think that anyone who drops a bomb or implements economic sanctions on any country is a criminal.

Do you actually believe that Clinton would have invaded Iraq????

So yeah, perhaps you are more of a leftist than the liberals. Whatever…

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 07/21/2006 :  09:06:41   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message
Do you think Clinton didn't invade Iraq?

Am I supposed to say (sigh) and "whatever' here in order to sound intelligent?

I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



Edited by - Gorgo on 07/21/2006 09:08:10
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13463 Posts

Posted - 07/21/2006 :  09:10:57   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo

Do you think Clinton didn't invade Iraq?

LOL... Economic sanctions in keeping with UN policy on Iraq? You do have a gift for hyperbole…

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 07/21/2006 :  09:17:09   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message
Don't know about Carter (sigh). Whatever.

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=11&ItemID=2463
http://www.commondreams.org/views02/1018-06.htm
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20021104/cockburn

I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 07/21/2006 :  09:19:07   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message
quote:
LOL... Economic sanctions in keeping with UN policy on Iraq? You do have a gift for hyperbole…



Hyperbole? Cruise missiles, thousands dead, almost daily bombing, impoverishment? That's hyperbole to you? LOL, whatever, (sigh)

The question wasn't, is he as bad as Bush, the question is, what is liberal about attacking Iraq, Yugoslavia and Sudan, agreeing to NAFTA, etc.

I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



Edited by - Gorgo on 07/21/2006 09:26:20
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13463 Posts

Posted - 07/21/2006 :  09:27:05   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message
In answer to Marf and Filthy:

By the way, it does bum me out that we have chased away some of our more centrist, libertarian and even more right leaning skeptics. We lost Slater and Tokyo Dreamer who contributed greatly to our site…

quote:
Gorgo:
millions dead

Yes, Hyperbole...

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 07/21/2006 :  09:39:59   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message
You just beat my edit. LOL (sigh) whatever.

I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



Edited by - Gorgo on 07/21/2006 09:40:34
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 07/21/2006 :  10:38:35   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message
There was nothing legal about the first Gulf War, and even if there was, the prolonging of the sanctions would not have happened without the U.S. and prolonging them after the destruction of the war was criminal by any reasonable standard. The no-fly zones were illegal, which makes any "collateral" deaths and damage over the many years of bombings very illegal.

http://www.fas.org/news/iraq/1999/03/990309-iraq2.htm

Clinton's (and Europe's) attack on Yugoslavia is another example as is the attack on Sudan. Clinton probably did more damage, because his crimes are worshipped by more people than Bush's.


I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



Edited by - Gorgo on 07/21/2006 11:10:49
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 07/21/2006 :  11:11:42   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message
LOL (sigh) whatever, just for hyperbolic emphasis!

I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



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Paulos23
Skeptic Friend

USA
446 Posts

Posted - 07/21/2006 :  11:33:47   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Paulos23's Homepage Send Paulos23 a Private Message
Ya, I agree. I use to come here for the rip roaring debates. Now I come here to clam my mind and go into the debates on another board.

Maybe we should start a campain to attract more conservatives over here for debate.

You can go wrong by being too skeptical as readily as by being too trusting. -- Robert A. Heinlein

Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 07/21/2006 :  11:56:31   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Paulos23

Ya, I agree. I use to come here for the rip roaring debates. Now I come here to clam my mind and go into the debates on another board.

Maybe we should start a campain to attract more conservatives over here for debate.

I very much agree, although I have no idea how to go about it. Without at least two viewpoints, there is no debate and we wind up talking to ourselves; a sort of verbal, around-the-block masturbation, if you will -- ok, a circle-jerk.

Temperance has never been one of my qualities (or failings, depending upon how you look at it), but I think that if we refrain from going for the jugular with each and every remark, and give the other guy ample talking space, it will improve the quality of the fora considerably.

The loss of Slater and Tokyo Dreamer was a sad one, and I still feel that I was at least in part responsible.




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

Go to Top of Page

Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 07/21/2006 :  12:04:00   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message
For losing both of them? Wow.

I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 07/21/2006 :  12:38:03   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message
I do not wish any harm to anyone, but this forum is much better off without the likes of Slater and Rubysue, and a few others. I understand Slater added something to the science portion of the site, but I didn't see much elsewhere.

Again, if these people can be called conservative, well, I dunno. People like Garrette, who had the inside scoop on the WMD's could probably be forgiven for being hoodwinked. At least he and Trish tried to be reasonable, but as shown in the link below, when you applaud this kind of stupidity, what does that make you?

http://www.skepticfriends.org/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=518

I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



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