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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 07/21/2006 : 16:13:31 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo
I do not wish any harm to anyone, but this forum is much better off without the likes of Slater and Rubysue, and a few others. I understand Slater added something to the science portion of the site, but I didn't see much elsewhere.
Again, if these people can be called conservative, well, I dunno. People like Garrette, who had the inside scoop on the WMD's could probably be forgiven for being hoodwinked. At least he and Trish tried to be reasonable, but as shown in the link below, when you applaud this kind of stupidity, what does that make you?
http://www.skepticfriends.org/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=518
A bystander. I don't think I ever got involved in that one, although I didn't go through all 18 pages of it to be sure. The topic wasn't something that interested me.
I got into it with Tokyo Dreamer over Republicans and made a particularly nasty remark; Slater was a little homophobic and I, among others, remarked on it.
Never the less, both were assets to the fora. They were literate and well spoken, and rarely pedantic. No one has to see everything from 'our' point of view. He/she can have an entirely differing set of opinions and prejudices, and still be an asset to the site.
Show me a man who always agrees with everything I say, and I'll show you one with serious brain damage. And that holds for the entire membership. Ain't nobody always right all the time. Nor always wrong either, comes to that.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2006 : 16:50:05 [Permalink]
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| I doubt that either of them left because of one little thing. People come and go. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2006 : 18:03:11 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo
I doubt that either of them left because of one little thing. People come and go.
Actually, they absolutely left over politics. Sure it wasn't one thing. Piltdown (Jimmy Reynolds) left over politics too. I know because he told me so. Things got a bit dicey after 9/11 and tempers were short. And both Tokyo Dreamer and Jimmy, who also wrote articles for us, were moderators!
I know I get into it sometimes. But I have always had reservations about the politics folder. The truth of it is that of all the critical thinking in the world will only get you an opinion in politics…
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Chippewa
SFN Regular
USA
1496 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2006 : 19:10:17 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by marfknox
Is it just me or has SFN turned into liberal city?
It might also be that more and more people over the last two years, skeptical or not so skeptical are growing more and more frustrated with the mounting arrogance, indifference and stupidity of the Bush regime. Also, the Bush regime itself has long ago co-opted the label "conservative". Nowadays, anyone critical of their actions (or lack thereof) regardless of actually having leanings towards being a Republican or a Democrat is in today's context, defined as having a liberal outlook. |
Diversity, independence, innovation and imagination are progressive concepts ultimately alien to the conservative mind.
"TAX AND SPEND" IS GOOD! (TAX: Wealthy corporations who won't go poor even after taxes. SPEND: On public works programs, education, the environment, improvements.) |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2006 : 20:30:18 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by marfknox
Soooo... which one of you killed all the libertarians, and where'd ya bury their bodies?
I believe Snake is a libertarian.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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Ghost_Skeptic
SFN Regular
Canada
510 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2006 : 00:37:40 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Chippewa
quote:
Originally posted by marfknox
Is it just me or has SFN turned into liberal city?
It might also be that more and more people over the last two years, skeptical or not so skeptical are growing more and more frustrated with the mounting arrogance, indifference and stupidity of the Bush regime. Also, the Bush regime itself has long ago co-opted the label "conservative". Nowadays, anyone critical of their actions (or lack thereof) regardless of actually having leanings towards being a Republican or a Democrat is in today's context, defined as having a liberal outlook.
I am a fiscal conservative - does that count? I think a regime dedicated to deficit spending and environmental degradation and ignoring the constitution can hardly be considered conservative.
I think the criticism of the Bush regime here has become particularly shrill and may be putting people off. Either that or the indefensible has few defenders. |
"You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. / You can send a kid to college but you can't make him think." - B.B. King
History is made by stupid people - The Arrogant Worms
"The greater the ignorance the greater the dogmatism." - William Osler
"Religion is the natural home of the psychopath" - Pat Condell
"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter" - Thomas Jefferson |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2006 : 01:41:01 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Chippewa
It might also be that more and more people over the last two years, skeptical or not so skeptical are growing more and more frustrated with the mounting arrogance, indifference and stupidity of the Bush regime. Also, the Bush regime itself has long ago co-opted the label "conservative". ...
This is one of the reasons I've gotten more and more active in political and anti-war activities. A lot more of my time is occupied on countering the mess this country is currently in. From the end of Reagan's meddling in Central America until Bush was elected, I hadn't been involved much in politics except voting and going to the stupid caucuses they have here in lieu of primaries.
As much as the war and stupidity of Bush are issues, so has been the increasing efforts of the Christian religious groups to make the government in their image. Corporate control of mainstream media, increased spying on law abiding citizens, and the mind boggling actions of arresting people without trial and refusing to condemn the practice of torture or trying to say the crap they have done to people wasn't really torture makes the claim the government is out of control an understatement.
It feels very threatening if people don't speak up against it, so I am indeed more vocal politically than in times past.
I think, though, if people make an effort not to get personal, we do have things to say to each other. The problem is a fair number of people who currently side with the neocons and religion pushers is they are dogmatic. They don't have rational arguments supporting their beliefs and don't tolerate ideas and facts that contradict those beliefs. "God says so", "gays and abortion are sins", "we are fighting terrorists in Iraq" and so on. What can you say to those convictions?
Where are the skeptical conservatives? Their own party isn't what it claims to be. Clinton had more responsible fiscal policies than Bush by far. Surely the most pious can't believe gays and abortion are the only sins worth speaking out about.
Even if you are against abortion, the evidence shows abortion rates decline with all sorts of actions other than laws against it and protesting at abortion clinics. If you are really against abortion, shouldn't you support the actions that decrease it rather than just screaming "sinner" to women getting medical care at Planned Parenthood?
As far as people leaving because of politics, why not just avoid that particular forum? Or ignore people who are too dogmatic on the other side of issues from your own position? The only time I left a forum over politics was when the moderator deleted posts he didn't like. (Well that and I left the BAUT after the moderator claimed my post contained politics when it didn't.) |
| Edited by - beskeptigal on 07/22/2006 01:42:51 |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2006 : 01:53:34 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Ghost_Skeptic
I am a fiscal conservative - does that count? I think a regime dedicated to deficit spending and environmental degradation and ignoring the constitution can hardly be considered conservative.
I think the criticism of the Bush regime here has become particularly shrill and may be putting people off. Either that or the indefensible has few defenders.
You may be one of those skeptical conservatives then. I wish there were more of you. But as to Bush criticism, the man is so bad, there is no way to discuss balance, there is no good there to balance the atrocious. Think about that reaction of all those people with the "I'm sorry" signs after the 2004 election. People were devastated. Have you ever felt that way because your guy didn't win President before? It was unique and this situation is intolerable.
But I would rather discuss the issues with skeptical conservatives than have them leave the board. As for the dogmatic conservatives, they give one the chance to polish one's arguments. |
| Edited by - beskeptigal on 07/22/2006 01:55:26 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2006 : 02:33:52 [Permalink]
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It is said that the love of money is the root of all evil. I disagree. Dogmatic political philosophy is that root and it goes into the public soil to a great depth. And thus it has always been. Even in the halls of the tyrants, no one is immune to political divisiveness. History has tyrants assassinated at every turn.
Politics divide families -- the American Civil War for example -- and destroyed countries. Millions have been slaughtered over mere thoughts -- some good ones; most nonsense -- or for subscribing to the *wrong* political faction.
And politics have injured these fora. I ask: is it worth it?
Everyone has something to contribute, and I include Bill Scott, verlch, and even Bigbrain and HYBRID. Their contributions might be made in the form of the answers to their remarks, but they are contributions never the less in that they cause the rest of us to research and put forth reference. Go back and look at the threads they have been involved in, if you don't believe it.
I, for one, hate to see anyone depart and therefore, I'll keep my rabid, lefty views to myself for a while. It might help elevate the quality of the discussion.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2006 : 03:23:54 [Permalink]
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quote:
I know I get into it sometimes. But I have always had reservations about the politics folder. The truth of it is that of all the critical thinking in the world will only get you an opinion in politics…
There are no facts involved? Only because there are so many lies that it's difficult to sort them out.
So, we quit talking about things because some people get angry? Isn't it a shame that people get angry who defend actions that cause people to die and suffer?
Tell me that people never get angry and rude in the other folders. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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| Edited by - Gorgo on 07/22/2006 03:25:33 |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2006 : 03:36:45 [Permalink]
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quote:
Actually, they absolutely left over politics. Sure it wasn't one thing. Piltdown (Jimmy Reynolds) left over politics too.
And you believe everything people say. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2006 : 04:01:28 [Permalink]
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| Rubysue said a lot of things when she left, but from what I saw, the reason she left is that she had nothing of substance to say and she liked the drama of making a loud exit. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2006 : 08:06:38 [Permalink]
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quote:
Everyone has something to contribute, and I include Bill Scott, verlch, and even Bigbrain and HYBRID. Their contributions might be made in the form of the answers to their remarks, but they are contributions never the less in that they cause the rest of us to research and put forth reference. Go back and look at the threads they have been involved in, if you don't believe it.
I don't know about those people, but Slater and Rubysue, and a couple of others here don't care much about research. They're just here to be insulting. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2006 : 08:37:02 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo
And you believe everything people say.
Well, I am having a bit of trouble believing that you just asked me that… |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2006 : 08:37:55 [Permalink]
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| Really. (sigh) whatever. LOL |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Topic Locked
