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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2006 :  08:34:01  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message
Welcome to the town of Allopath.

I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2006 :  09:33:34   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message
So why the attack on the FDA? Have they ever done anything remotely similar in the past?

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26009 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2006 :  09:44:12   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
Dr. Mercola makes his living off "alternative medicine." It is in his financial best interest to smear "allopathic" medicine as often as possible.

Note also that on his homepage, he puts up the tired old quote:
All Truth Goes Through Three Stages
  • First it is ridiculed

  • Then it is violently opposed

  • Finally, it is accepted as self-evident
But even if that were true, it's not predictive. The quote is there to hook more suckers - as Dr. Mercola knows well - by suggesting "I'm being laughed at, therefore I know the truth!" But as Carl Sagan said, "they also laughed at Bozo the Clown."

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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pleco
SFN Addict

USA
2996 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2006 :  09:49:04   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit pleco's Homepage Send pleco a Private Message
So this guy has all the truth...if you buy his books...

by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart.
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2006 :  12:08:49   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message
Dr. Mercola describes his Osteopathic profession thusly:
quote:
Traditional Osteopaths do not focus exclusively on bones. Rather, we focus on recognizing an inherent intelligence that perfectly, and with precision, is working to establish wellness in the patient at all times.

This higher intelligence, which we call the "Health" is conscious, precognitive, omnipresent and is a direct reflection of the Divine.
Intelligent Health (IH)? So you bettah be a believah.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2006 :  14:35:17   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message
I thought "Allopath" meant things such as homeopathy, naturopathy, and so on. Never heard the term before. Now the video makes sense.

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard

USA
3739 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2006 :  14:52:58   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit marfknox's Homepage  Send marfknox an AOL message Send marfknox a Private Message
This Dr. Mercola seems to be a bit of dipshit. He links to an article about doctors being the #3 killer under only heart disease and cancer (you can read it here, if it asks for an email address, just give a fake one: http://www.mercola.com/2000/jul/30/doctors_death.htm), and then does a really dumb analysis of the statistics in the article:
quote:
I would encourage you to bookmark this article and review it several times so you can use the statistics to counter the arguments of your friends and relatives who are so enthralled with the traditional medical paradigm. These statistics prove very clearly that the system is just not working. It is broken and is in desperate need of repair.
People who are so "enthralled with the traditional medical paradigm"? Well, I'm pretty enthralled that my cousin who was born with a devastating genetic disorder didn't die before the age of 2 - which he wouldn't have if he'd been born 100 years ago. Does this jackass think no progress has been made in the treatment of diseases? The fact that cancer and heart disease are the #1 and #2 killers in the USA itself is evidence of medical success since those are diseases people tend to get because they live to be old. And of course doctors and other medical workers constantly screw up (they are human after all) and so lots of people are going to die from medical error simply because just about everybody goes to the doctor. My cousin's grandpa went in for minor gall bladder surgury, and medical error led to internal bleeding and his death a few days after the surgery. It was an honest error, not malpractice. It was tragic, too, but what the hell are people supposed to do, not get gall bladder surgery when they need it? Avoid going to the doctor at all? Yeah, we see that works so well for people without health insurance.

The doc writes:
quote:
Care, not treatment, is the answer. Drugs, surgery and hospitals are rarely the answer to chronic health problems. Facilitating the God-given healing capacity that all of us have is the key. Improving the diet, exercise, and lifestyle are basic.
Wow, this guy is just brilliant: diet, exercise, and lifestyle are basic to better health? Whoa! That's so crazy! Nobody would agree with that type of crazy talk, and nobody else promotes such garbage!

But to turn the sarcasm off, does it occur to Dr. Marcola that peoples' unwillingness to live healthier lifestyles is a bigger factor in this "problem" than corruption of the FDA and blind devotion to the "traditional medical paradigm". Most Americans would simply rather take a pill for anxiety and depression rather than totally alter their lifestyle. Is that a shame? Sure. But to act like it's some big secret that Americans tend to treat symptoms rather than lead overall healthy lifestyles, and that people in the medical community are part of some giant machine that encourages such self destructive choices, is just false. What should the doctors do? Refuse to give my dad his lippitor and say, "No, no, pops. What you need to do is change your lifestyle to prevent heart disease."

"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong

Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com

Edited by - marfknox on 07/29/2006 14:56:56
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26009 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2006 :  17:25:55   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Ricky

I thought "Allopath" meant things such as homeopathy, naturopathy, and so on. Never heard the term before. Now the video makes sense.
For any others who might not know, the term "allopath" was coined by the founder of homeopathy. Since "homeopathy" means "treat like with like," the word "allopathy" is supposed to mean the opposite, or treating symptoms with things that do not produce the same symptoms. See Wikipedia for more details.


- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2006 :  18:00:29   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
A lot of people die from both medical mistakes (it ain't all doctors) and what we call iatrogenic or the side effects of medical treatment, usually drug reactions and infections acquired in hospitals.

There is a logic error however, comparing that rate to the rate of other causes of death. It doesn't take into account the DECREASED death rates from other causes BECAUSE of medical care.
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JohnOAS
SFN Regular

Australia
800 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2006 :  18:25:11   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit JohnOAS's Homepage Send JohnOAS a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal

A lot of people die from both medical mistakes (it ain't all doctors) and what we call iatrogenic or the side effects of medical treatment, usually drug reactions and infections acquired in hospitals.

There is a logic error however, comparing that rate to the rate of other causes of death. It doesn't take into account the DECREASED death rates from other causes BECAUSE of medical care.


They also tend to forget that it's a zero sum game, at least until we discover the True Secrets Of Immortality (TM).

Immortality not withstanding, people have to die of something. If we elimate cancer and heart disease, something else will take their places in the list, and the fruit loops can blame "conventional" medicine for failing to solve them too.

John's just this guy, you know.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26009 Posts

Posted - 07/29/2006 :  22:15:39   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal

There is a logic error however, comparing that rate to the rate of other causes of death. It doesn't take into account the DECREASED death rates from other causes BECAUSE of medical care.
Right. When people bring up the number of deaths due to medical "mistakes," I always ask "how many would have died if there were no such thing as medical treatment?"

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Ghost_Skeptic
SFN Regular

Canada
510 Posts

Posted - 07/30/2006 :  00:25:54   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Ghost_Skeptic a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by JohnOASThey also tend to forget that it's a zero sum game, at least until we discover the True Secrets Of Immortality (TM).

Immortality not withstanding, people have to die of something. If we elimate cancer and heart disease, something else will take their places in the list, and the fruit loops can blame "conventional" medicine for failing to solve them too.



Until the point where all deaths are due to accidents, suicide etc.

My uncle was recently killed by a dumb ass doctor who kept telling him (over a period of 2 years) that his deteriorating health was due to old age. By the time his doctor took things seriously and he had exploratory surgery he had a tumor the size of a football in his abdomen and it was way too late. If he had taken the alternative route the same thing would have happened. Human error is alway going to be the weak link in the medical system.

Also, how many deaths due to iatrogenic causes are the result of risky procedures done on people who are going to die if nothing is done? In other words, people who were going to die anyway.

One thing these alties like to denigrate is conventional cancer treatments. They keep claiming it is ineffective, but I bet nearly everyone on this list knows at least one person who is alive several years after being treated for cancer.

As for the conventional medicine not emphasising prevention - Doctors are constantly nagging their patients to quit smoking, lose weight, and exercise more. Perhaps they are not advocating healthy eating enough, but this is changing as well. And it was an "allopathic" epidemiologist in Britian who first made the link between smoking and lung cancer.

And as for "Dr." Mercola's scientific credibility - I have read some of his newsletters. In one he attacked floridation of drinking water making the usual references to how toxic flourine gas is how hydroflouric acid can etch glass (big deal - these are not the flouride compound added to drinking water). He referred to fluoride as "this toxic heavy metal". Flourine is at the top right (excluding the inert gases) corner of the periodic table which makes it as far from a heavy metal as one can get. It is the strongest of the halogens (elements which want to grab an extra electron to fill their outer "shell") while metals want to give up an electron or 2 or 3 to empty their outer "shell".

"You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. / You can send a kid to college but you can't make him think." - B.B. King

History is made by stupid people - The Arrogant Worms

"The greater the ignorance the greater the dogmatism." - William Osler

"Religion is the natural home of the psychopath" - Pat Condell

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter" - Thomas Jefferson
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 07/30/2006 :  01:47:08   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Ricky

I thought "Allopath" meant things such as homeopathy, naturopathy, and so on. Never heard the term before. Now the video makes sense.

Allopathy is a made-up pseudo-Greek term created by the homeopathy quacks to refer to real medicine. Clearly, they realized that could not gain favor by referring to their foes as "real medicine" practitioners, so controlling using the new term was used as a propaganda tactic.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 07/30/2006 :  08:04:47   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message
Wikipedia tells a different tale, HalfMooner. The word was coined in the 19th century, long before there was any real split between Homeopathy and real medicine.

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 07/30/2006 :  13:16:02   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Ricky

Wikipedia tells a different tale, HalfMooner. The word was coined in the 19th century, long before there was any real split between Homeopathy and real medicine.

I'd read that same Wiki article before my last posting. I may have been wrong, but I've assumed that Homeopathy has had strong opposition by real medicine since its inception. That's certainly implied by the first sentence in the article you linked to: "Allopathic medicine is the name given by Samuel Hahnemann, the founder of homeopathy, to the methods of his medical foes."


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Edited by - HalfMooner on 07/30/2006 13:17:05
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 07/30/2006 :  15:05:24   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message
They were his foes, sure, but was there really two classes, "Real medicine" and "Other"? I didn't think so, but I don't know all that much about the history of medicine. Maybe someone who does can chime in?

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
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