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 JonBenet killer found?
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4954 Posts

Posted - 08/17/2006 :  05:55:19  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message
Frankly, I am stunned at hearing this. Leaving aside for the moment the rather sick media obsession (rabidly eaten up by the public?) with this, it always seemed to me that her parents had something to do with it.

Now, ten years later, some freaky-looking guys is saying that "I was with JonBenet when she died . . . I loved JonBenet, and she died accidentally." I don't recall anymore the specifics of the case, but there was no forced entry. There seemed to have been other strange issues, too. How does this strange guy suddenly show up? I'll be curious to have this straightened out!

sack of kittens
New Member

12 Posts

Posted - 08/17/2006 :  06:36:08   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send sack of kittens a Private Message
I have argued this one recently elsewhere . I stated that those who blamed the parents in some form were little better than villagers in a b movie about to storm the castle with pitchforks and flaming torches. The evidence never added up to their guilt and now many have to eat crow . Always look at the evidence . Too many are damned by other means . This is not sudden either , it seems it has been some time in the making . It only seems sudden as you have just heard the news.
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 08/17/2006 :  07:08:24   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
I pretty much figured the case would be solved by the guy getting caught for something else and confessing JonBenet. I had grave doubts about her family doing it, even though on average it is the family who is responsible for these things.

In a way, I still hold them responsible. They put their child up and showed her off like some sort of prize calf at the county fair. Pretty disgusting, if you ask me.

So, they've got the guy. Or so we are told, at any rate. It's too soon to come up with an opinion at the moment -- the storys, and there will be many of them, have yet to come out.

One question I have is; why is Homeland Security involved in a local, decade-old, kidnap/murder case? I would think that the FBI or some such would have jurisdiction. Are there no more terrorists to be caught?




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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furshur
SFN Regular

USA
1536 Posts

Posted - 08/17/2006 :  07:22:56   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send furshur a Private Message
I'm stunned also. Why did the parents act so guilty? Why refuse to talk to the police? Why stonewall the investigation? The whole thing makes no sense to me. Very sad and disturbing....

If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know.
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sack of kittens
New Member

12 Posts

Posted - 08/17/2006 :  09:17:12   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send sack of kittens a Private Message
Jesus h yahweh people! have a look at the wiki thread and links.Do you not remember the dingo case Evidence not human suspicion. This is a skeptic forum . Use your brains.What's to be stunned by? They did not put the child up to be murdered , only you disapproved of the way the child was used /practices followed . That is not the same as come murder/molest my child , no matter how we may disagree. Think straight please.
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4954 Posts

Posted - 08/17/2006 :  09:49:37   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by sack of kittens
This is not sudden either , it seems it has been some time in the making . It only seems sudden as you have just heard the news.

Uh, except that it was breaking news on CNN yesterday. Otherwise, I haven't followed the story and haven't seen anything on the major national news sites. So I'm certainly not the only person its "sudden" to.
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4954 Posts

Posted - 08/17/2006 :  09:55:51   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by sack of kittens

Jesus h yahweh people! have a look at the wiki thread and links.

The, uh, wiki? For the JonBenet case? Who knew? (But I guess that if the Super Friends can have a wiki, anything can.) Seriously, man, you obviously care lots about the case. But most of us haven't thought about it in years, and even then I don't think too many of us devoted too much to it. So relax and let us get up to speed on the matter!
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sack of kittens
New Member

12 Posts

Posted - 08/17/2006 :  10:08:47   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send sack of kittens a Private Message
I care about this case greatly because it is one of those cases that draws attention and leads to unfounded positions. If people stopped and looked at the evidence then there would not be the media circus . As a sceptic I look at the evidence. Skeptical ( note the k ) thinking requires this. You apply the same train of thought to criminal cases as those which are paranormal . You apply the same thought to positions couched in scientific terms . Wether the claim is political , social , judicial or otherwise , it is always ON THE EVIDENCE.Do you remember the dingo case
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4954 Posts

Posted - 08/17/2006 :  10:15:25   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by sack of kittens

I care about this case greatly because it is one of those cases that draws attention and leads to unfounded positions. If people stopped and looked at the evidence then there would not be the media circus . As a sceptic I look at the evidence. Skeptical ( note the k ) thinking requires this. You apply the same train of thought to criminal cases as those which are paranormal . You apply the same thought to positions couched in scientific terms . Wether the claim is political , social , judicial or otherwise , it is always ON THE EVIDENCE.Do you remember the dingo case

No, I don't remember the dingo case. And you're right-- we should consider cases on evidence. However, I'm not on the jury in the JonBenet case, and my opinion on who did it is irrelevant. Besides speaking right now on this forum, I have never in my life discussed it with another person. (No one I know cares to discuss it more than the "Did you hear? Yeah. Anyhow...") If the little girl were killed by her parents or some freaky school teacher, it doesn't change the naturalistic paradigm of the world.

Again, I'm glad you've followed the case over the last 10 years. Indeed, it seems your conclusions were correct (though this guy seems sketchy enough that he might be insane and making it up!). But most of us clearly haven't bothered with it, so forgive us if we entertained illogical ideas for the two or three seconds we thought about the case.
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4826 Posts

Posted - 08/17/2006 :  10:24:33   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by furshur

I'm stunned also. Why did the parents act so guilty? Why refuse to talk to the police? Why stonewall the investigation? The whole thing makes no sense to me. Very sad and disturbing....



Question: Your child has just been brutally murdered and you didn't do it. The police start interrogating you and it seems like they want to blame you for it. Do you cooperate or do you lawyer up to protect yourself from a misguided investigation that seems to be looking for a scapegoat?

How do you get them to focus on finding the killer and not just focus on the usual suspects?

Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion
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sack of kittens
New Member

12 Posts

Posted - 08/17/2006 :  10:26:00   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send sack of kittens a Private Message
I will take that as a " i should have looked at the case objectively". Satisfies me.
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 08/17/2006 :  11:25:39   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
Who wants to take my bet, the guy is a nut, didn't do it and just has a morbid fantasy?

The Boulder police continue to show their incompetence in this case, except they may have had to arrest based on the confession even if not convinced. OTOH, there was a news report the guy had details not released to the public. That is either bullshit from the reporter, highly likely, or incompetence from the PD, in that the info was indeed out there and they are the last to know that.


So here's the evidence:

I saw the interview. This guy was willing to say he did it, he loved her, it was an accident, yadda yadda yadda. But when asked how did he get in, how did he get her in the basement, "no comment". Yeah right, IE he doesn't really have any details because he wasn't there.

Wife has already claimed he was in Alabama at the time. The family and many others say he was obsessed with this and the Polly Klaas murders. He never lived in Colorado. He may have lived near the Ramsy family in Georgia but that was 4 years before the murder and long before the girl was into pageants.

Evidence against the parents: The big one, John Ramsey went straight to the body for no reason other than the police hadn't searched the house and it didn't look like they were going to. And there are a number of other incriminating pieces from the garrotte stick being Patsy's paint brush, the handwriting, the emotional response on TV (yes you can analyze such things) and the dollar amount of the ransom.

If there is a DNA match of this guy to the unidentified DNA I'll be shocked. For now, I'm confident I'll win the bet if anyone takes it. Skepticism is looking for evidence, not looking at the news reports.
Edited by - beskeptigal on 08/17/2006 11:30:28
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4954 Posts

Posted - 08/17/2006 :  11:55:56   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by sack of kittens

I will take that as a " i should have looked at the case objectively". Satisfies me.

Or perhaps "if I realy cared to look into it for more than 10 seconds, I would have considered the evidence more carefully."
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4954 Posts

Posted - 08/17/2006 :  11:59:06   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal

Who wants to take my bet, the guy is a nut, didn't do it and just has a morbid fantasy?

The Boulder police continue to show their incompetence in this case, except they may have had to arrest based on the confession even if not convinced. OTOH, there was a news report the guy had details not released to the public. That is either bullshit from the reporter, highly likely, or incompetence from the PD, in that the info was indeed out there and they are the last to know that.


So here's the evidence:

I saw the interview. This guy was willing to say he did it, he loved her, it was an accident, yadda yadda yadda. But when asked how did he get in, how did he get her in the basement, "no comment". Yeah right, IE he doesn't really have any details because he wasn't there.

Wife has already claimed he was in Alabama at the time. The family and many others say he was obsessed with this and the Polly Klaas murders. He never lived in Colorado. He may have lived near the Ramsy family in Georgia but that was 4 years before the murder and long before the girl was into pageants.

Evidence against the parents: The big one, John Ramsey went straight to the body for no reason other than the police hadn't searched the house and it didn't look like they were going to. And there are a number of other incriminating pieces from the garrotte stick being Patsy's paint brush, the handwriting, the emotional response on TV (yes you can analyze such things) and the dollar amount of the ransom.

If there is a DNA match of this guy to the unidentified DNA I'll be shocked. For now, I'm confident I'll win the bet if anyone takes it. Skepticism is looking for evidence, not looking at the news reports.

Hey, BSG, I would totally not be shocked to hear this. In fact, a few news articles I read this morning suggested as much, and noted that he'd not be the first lunatic, er, mentally ill person, to "confess" to a crime he didn't commit!
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 08/17/2006 :  12:23:19   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
I recall reading about the dingo case a few years ago -- A dingo actually did it, but I don't remember the details.

I can give a firm 'I dunno!" on the Ramsey case. All of the evidence I have seen thus far is pretty much circumstantial and far from convincing. And so, as I don't trust our too-often sensationilst and hysterical media, I'll wait and see.

Is the guy guilty? Maybe. Is he, either way, a nutcase? I think that's a safe bet. Might he get off on an insanity plea? Not hardly...

There is yet another question in this. Why did HomeLand Security get involved in a local murder case -- an everyday occurance? Is the admuinistration again trying to clog up the news to fog over their incompentence?

We shall see.




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Ghost_Skeptic
SFN Regular

Canada
510 Posts

Posted - 08/17/2006 :  13:34:31   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Ghost_Skeptic a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by filthy

I recall reading about the dingo case a few years ago -- A dingo actually did it, but I don't remember the details.


It was the Lindy Chamberlain case. She was a Seventh Day Adventist accused of killing her daughter near Ayer's Rock (which has been renamed to its original name now I believe). She said her daughter was dragged away by a dingo and was eventually vindicated.

I agree with your "prize calf" comment Filthy. I always thought the picture of that little girl with all that makeup that was always on the covers of the supermarket tabloids was very creepy - something that would definitely appeal to a pedophile. No wonder the parents were suspects.

"You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. / You can send a kid to college but you can't make him think." - B.B. King

History is made by stupid people - The Arrogant Worms

"The greater the ignorance the greater the dogmatism." - William Osler

"Religion is the natural home of the psychopath" - Pat Condell

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter" - Thomas Jefferson
Edited by - Ghost_Skeptic on 08/17/2006 13:38:36
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