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Starman
SFN Regular

Sweden
1613 Posts

Posted - 08/28/2006 :  04:01:31   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Starman a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul

It seems most everybody in this forum has listened to her a lot more than me. When I don't like someone I usually don't listen to them hundreds of times as one commentor has.
So first we can't criticize her if we haven't read or listened to here and now we listen to her too much for your liking.

Something that neither you nor your idol seem to comprehend is that to attack a view or opinion you better be sure what this view or opinion really is. Otherwise you will as Coulter does just reveal your stupidity to any moderately informed listener. This is the reason why we have to endure some of Coulters ignorance and vitriol.

It good to see that you realize that having a belief system like that of a church is something negative though.

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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9666 Posts

Posted - 08/28/2006 :  05:18:36   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
Anyway I'm sure Coulter is not perfect but she does have a valid point that some liberals' belief system is like that of a church. And if their beliefs are similar in structure to a church, so what.

Emphasis mine.
Name one single liberal that holds such a belief system as Coulter describes, and support your argument with evidence.
Otherwise I'm inclined to agree with Halfmooner that you're full of shit (and that is not a judgement I make lightly, since I have responsibilities as a moderator).

The rest of your post is just very poor excuses for Colter being an ass-hole, because "liberals aren't any better". Since when does that matter? If she was a God loving Christian, she wouldn't have behaved in this way to begin with.
She played you for a sucker and you bought it lock, stock, and barrel.
And now that she's been exposed you're left with two choices:
acknowledge that you've been suckered, or continue to refuse to accept the fact that she's been exposed as the lying sensationalist media-whore that she is.

(edited to fix grammar)

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
Edited by - Dr. Mabuse on 08/28/2006 10:22:41
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moakley
SFN Regular

USA
1880 Posts

Posted - 08/28/2006 :  05:23:24   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send moakley a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by H. Humbert

quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
It is impossible for me to answer that question unless I have seen the incident that Coulter saw. If you do honestly perceive someone taking pleasure in another's person's death I think it is courageous to bring it to people's attention because it is definitely wrong to take pleasure in your spouse's death.

You know, the more I think about this the more it is pissing me off. I can't fucking believe you called Coulter's insane accusation "courageous."

Do you think fighting child molestation is courageous? Now, what if I accused you of being a kid toucher? Am I now "courageous" for leveling that accusation at you or am I horribly out of line for accusing you of such a thing?

Also, coming from a person who proudly believes that reading 40% of her book while doing no fact checking makes him an expert. Far as I can tell he is just a member of the choir.

Life is good

Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25973 Posts

Posted - 08/28/2006 :  06:36:49   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul

If she lied about something, that's wrong.
"If?" You've been given examples of Coulter's lies. There should be no question about whether or not she's lied.

Of course, since you go on to fabricate excuses for her lies, it's no wonder that you can't see them.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 08/28/2006 :  07:42:21   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
Hi GK, and welcome to SFN!

I've not read her books simply because I've read some of her colunms and picked up the gist of her and her writings. She is far too shallow and shrill for my tastes, even if she were writing fiction. But I suppose others get a kick out of her, and some even take her words for gospel, don't ask me why.

I do not 'believe nor 'have faith' in the ToE. As has been shown in many previous postings, the ToE is not the be-all/end-all of science. It is merely the best explanation for certain biological process' found and supported by the existing evidence thus far. Indeed, it is so well supported by that evidence that it is considered a fact by the biological sciences. The only reason that it remains a 'theory' is there is and will always be an outside chance that new evidence could refute it. Unlikely to the point of ridicule, of course, but there it is.

I do not think Coulter knows exactly what a scientific theory is. In brief; it is an hypothesis that has become so well backed by empirical evidences that it is all but impossible to disprove. Such is the ToE, and such it will remain.

To call the ToE a religion is no more than a straw man used by a great many on the fundalmentalist, religious right -- much to my amusment. Coulter is merely parroting them, and for excellent reason: they comprise much of her audience and a writer always plays to his/her audience.

I urge you to open the TO link. I would provide some others -- safe ones; we don't don't play fuck-up-the-guy's-machine games here -- but my machine is fucked up and it's hard to say how long I'll be here this time.

In fact, if I might be allowed to whine a bit, Poe's raven has been roosting above my chamber door for some weeks, now...




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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GK Paul
Skeptic Friend

USA
306 Posts

Posted - 08/28/2006 :  14:11:27   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send GK Paul a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse

quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
Anyway I'm sure Coulter is not perfect but she does have a valid point that some liberals' belief system is like that of a church. And if their beliefs are similar in structure to a church, so what.

Emphasis mine.
Name one single liberal that holds such a belief system as Coulter describes, and support your argument with evidence.
Otherwise I'm inclined to agree with Halfmooner that you're full of shit (and that is not a judgement I make lightly, since I have responsibilities as a moderator).

The rest of your post is just very poor excuses for Colter being an ass-hole, because "liberals aren't any better". Since when does that matter? If she was a God loving Christian, she wouldn't have behaved in this way to begin with.
She played you for a sucker and you bought it lock, stock, and barrel.
And now that she's been exposed you're left with two choices:
acknowledge that you've been suckered, or continue to refuse to accept the fact that she's been exposed as the lying sensationalist media-whore that she is.

(edited to add a fact)

Well its obvious to me that you haven't read the book. She states that liberals tend to have a structured belief system much like a church. For example the Catholic Church has the sacrament of Baptism, and Coulter states that a liberal sacrament is abortion... The Catholic Church used to have the dogma of infallability of the pope, which meant the pope was incapable of being wrong. Coulter states 2 or 3 people [whom I forget the names since I'm not that up on liberal icons] are considered by liberals to be infallable...
Church members are encouraged to tithe to the church, and liberals are encouraged to tithe to the national teachers union. And she goes on and on... Got to go.


"Something cannot come from nothing" -- Ken Tanaka - geologist

"The existence of a Being endowed with intelligence and wisdom is a necessary inference from a study of celestial mechanics" --Sir Isaac Newton


GK Paul
Edited by - GK Paul on 08/28/2006 14:25:42
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25973 Posts

Posted - 08/28/2006 :  14:15:24   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul

Well its obvious to me that you haven't read the book. She states that liberals tend to have a structured belief system much like a church. For example the Catholic Church has the sacrament of Baptism, and Coulter states that a liberal sacrament is abortion...
And you've dodged Dr. Mabuse's question: name a single liberal for whom abortion is a "sacrament."
quote:
The Catholic Church used to have the dogma of infallability of the pope, which meant the pope was incapable of being wrong. Coulter states 2 or 3 people [whom I forget the names since I'm not that up on liberal icons] are considered by liberals to be infallable...
Ah, so even though you don't know who those liberals are, you trust Coulter that other liberals consider them "infallible?"
quote:
and so on.
Indeed, when are you going to answer Mab's direct question?

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
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pleco
SFN Addict

USA
2996 Posts

Posted - 08/28/2006 :  14:29:29   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit pleco's Homepage Send pleco a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
Well its obvious to me that you haven't read the book. She states that liberals tend to have a structured belief system much like a church. For example the Catholic Church has the sacrament of Baptism, and Coulter states that a liberal sacrament is abortion... The Catholic Church used to have the dogma of infallability of the pope, which meant the pope was incapable of being wrong. Coulter states 2 or 3 people [whom I forget the names since I'm not that up on liberal icons] are considered by liberals to be infallable...
Church members are encouraged to tithe to the church, and liberals are encouraged to tithe to the national teachers union. And she goes on and on... Got to go.



From this fallacious description one could say that neo-cons also have a religous belief system outside of their religion...what does the bible say about false idols?


by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart.
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4954 Posts

Posted - 08/28/2006 :  15:29:03   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul
Well its obvious to me that you haven't read the book. She states that liberals tend to have a structured belief system much like a church. For example the Catholic Church has the sacrament of Baptism, and Coulter states that a liberal sacrament is abortion... The Catholic Church used to have the dogma of infallability of the pope, which meant the pope was incapable of being wrong. Coulter states 2 or 3 people [whom I forget the names since I'm not that up on liberal icons] are considered by liberals to be infallable...
Church members are encouraged to tithe to the church, and liberals are encouraged to tithe to the national teachers union. And she goes on and on... Got to go.
But Coulter doesn't even make sense. To state that "a liberal sacrament is abortion" is illogical. A sacrament is, by some accounts, "an outward, visible sign that conveys an inward, spiritual grace," and that "the sacraments in and of themselves, rightly administered, are used by God as a means to communicate grace to faithful recipients."

On the other hand, many (but not all) liberals-- as well as some libertarians-- argue that the medical procedure called abortion should be, to some degree, legal. It's a philosphical and legal issue.

If Coulter is trying to say that "abortion" is sacred for liberals (which, more and more is just a boogeyman that right-wing pundits use to punch around in order to ralley voters and/or donors; the right's caricature of "liberal" doesn't exist), she's still isn't making sense. In any serious discussion of something sacred, a religious or supernatural element must be involed. But there's nothing supernatural or religious about the abortion debate. Coulter wants to make it religious, but her arguemnt is a tautology: Liberalism is a religion because abortion is religiously sacred; Abortion is religiously sacred because its a sacrement of the Liberal religion.

Coulter continues making things up by claming that "liberals" hold so-and-so to be infallable. Of course, this isn't true, and Coulter has to be high if she actually thinks this. Indeed, she's probably just being bombastic. But if so, her argument breaks down. On the one hand, the religious element is worthless (since there's no infallable element) and moreover, for any argument she could make about a liberal politician or thinker commanding a good deal of clout, one could just as easily make that argument about a conservative.

Beyond some superficial bombast, Coulter's arguments, well, suck, and people who think that she serves some good in our current political discourse are very out of touch.
Edited by - Cuneiformist on 08/28/2006 19:08:29
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 08/28/2006 :  15:55:48   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message
I'll try once again. Ann Coulter is a practitioner of the "Big Lie." Basically, this is sensationalist disinformation repeatedly told without evidence. This kind of brute-force propaganda finds fertile soil (or night-soil) in gullible minds like yours, GK. Hitler used the same technique, and enough "good Germans" ate it up, the Bigger the Lie the better.

As an OSS report said of Hitler:
quote:
His primary rules were: never allow the public to cool off; never admit a fault or wrong; never concede that there may be some good in your enemy; never leave room for alternatives; never accept blame; concentrate on one enemy at a time and blame him for everything that goes wrong; people will believe a big lie sooner than a little one; and if you repeat it frequently enough people will sooner or later believe it.
This description fits Ms. Coulter to a T. One of the things Coulter has learned from the real world is the propaganda techniques of the Nazis.

Since it is growing apparent that Congressional supporters of the Iraq war are beginning to jump ship, while opponents are making very strong campaigns to oust them, and since it it seems clear that the mess in Iraq is unwinnable, it is only a matter of time until the US has to cut its losses and pull out. Ms. Coulter will then be in a position to launch a new Dolchstoßlegende ("Stab-in-the-back legend") to explain the "defeat," and to blame godless liberals for it.

[Edited to remove a repeated word typo.]


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Edited by - HalfMooner on 08/28/2006 18:56:32
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GK Paul
Skeptic Friend

USA
306 Posts

Posted - 08/28/2006 :  18:00:08   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send GK Paul a Private Message
In response to Dr. Mabuse and Dave W. questions, Coutler states on page 17 and 18 that Rep. Nancy Pelosi told Democrats they should vote against the Rebublican budget as "an act of worship". Source Joseph Laconte, New York Times, Jan 2 2006. Coulter goes on to say that a former Time magazine White House correspondent [I'm withholding the name but Coulter gives it on page 18] told the Wahington Post in 1998 that she would be happy to give {Clinton oral sex} to thank him for keeping abortion Legal... Also churches don't want their followers to use profanity and according to Coulter liberals are discouraged from using the word abortion.


"Something cannot come from nothing" -- Ken Tanaka - geologist

"The existence of a Being endowed with intelligence and wisdom is a necessary inference from a study of celestial mechanics" --Sir Isaac Newton


GK Paul
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9666 Posts

Posted - 08/28/2006 :  18:17:32   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul

quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
(edited to add a fact)



I didn't edit to add a fact, I edited to correct grammar.
I changed a "your" to "you're" as in you are, as it was meant to be (it wasn't correct grammar before the change, so the misspelling should have been obvious).

When you are attributing a quote to me, you damn well better make sure not to distort my words, or I'll start calling you a fucking liar too.

Tread carefully, so you don't stick your foot in your mouth.

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9666 Posts

Posted - 08/28/2006 :  18:30:01   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul

In response to Dr. Mabuse and Dave W. questions, Coutler states on page 17 and 18 that Rep. Nancy Pelosi told Democrats they should vote against the Rebublican budget as "an act of worship". Source Joseph Laconte, New York Times, Jan 2 2006.

Can someone dig up the original source to verify that the quote is genuine?

I asked for evidence. The original article by Joseph Laconte is a step in the right direction. Right now, I don't know the context of Nancy Pelosi's words, or even who she is.

quote:
Coulter goes on to say that a former Time magazine White House correspondent [I'm withholding the name...
Why are you withholding the name? It makes no sense to me.
quote:
...but Coulter gives it on page 18] told the Wahington Post in 1998 that she would be happy to give {Clinton oral sex} to thank him for keeping abortion Legal...
Again, I want to see the original article. First hand information. I don't trust Coulter's say-so. I'm a skeptic after all. I need independent verification.
quote:
Also churches don't want their followers to use profanity and according to Coulter liberals are discouraged from using the word abortion.
By whom? I haven't heard anything such.
There are many SFN-members who would qualify to the wikipedia or Webster definition of liberal, and we go around saying abortion all the time.

Abortion.

Abortion, abortion, abortion, abortion, abortion, abortion...


Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4954 Posts

Posted - 08/28/2006 :  19:35:19   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse

quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul

In response to Dr. Mabuse and Dave W. questions, Coutler states on page 17 and 18 that Rep. Nancy Pelosi told Democrats they should vote against the Rebublican budget as "an act of worship". Source Joseph Laconte, New York Times, Jan 2 2006.

Can someone dig up the original source to verify that the quote is genuine?

I asked for evidence. The original article by Joseph Laconte is a step in the right direction. Right now, I don't know the context of Nancy Pelosi's words, or even who she is.


Hey, Mab. So here's the scoop: It's classic Coulter. You're right-- Coulter's citation is from an NY Times op-ed piece, where Mr. Loconte (Coulter's so lazy that she didn't even get the name right) says:
quote:
NANCY PELOSI, the Democratic leader in the House, sounded like an Old Testament prophet recently when she denounced the Republican budget for its ''injustice and immorality'' and urged her colleagues to cast their no votes ''as an act of worship'' during this religious season.
For the record, Mr. Loconte is "a research fellow in religion at the Heritage Foundation," which is a "a think tank - whose mission is to formulate and promote conservative public policies based on the principles of free enterprise, limited government, individual freedom, traditional American values, and a strong national defense." So already, we should be skeptical of quote-mining-- both from Coulter and Mr. Loconte.

So where did Loconte get his quote? From a speech by Pelosi given in December. It's a budget bill, which, at 700 pages, is something no one will bother to read. Following Pelosi:
quote:
We all know one thing for sure, no one in this Congress has read that bill. In just a short while we will be voting on a bill that no one has read, but we do know certain things about it that make it objectionable, not just to us, but to the religious community in America.
She invokes some sad old Christmas rhyme and asks
quote:
Do we say, ‘God bless you' with this budget when Congress leaves here without passing a budget which comes close to meeting the needs of America's families who are struggling to pay their home heating bills and pay the price at the pump? This same Congress that gave obscene subsidies to oil companies who are making historic profits this year, and yet we give a small token to America's families to help pay the bills to those oil companies.


She goes on about various issues related to the poor and middle class, and how perhaps Congress should show some heart and help them out. As part of her speech, she notes that
quote:
Religious denominations prayed and lobbied that Congress would do the right thing. They sai
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25973 Posts

Posted - 08/28/2006 :  19:41:58   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
And I see you added something new since I first replied to your prior post, GK Paul:
quote:
Church members are encouraged to tithe to the church, and liberals are encouraged to tithe to the national teachers union.
Is it possible for people who aren't members of a union to give money to that union? Surely you mean the National Education Association, anyway - and I can't find a "donate" link on their website, nor can I join the NEA because I'm not a professional educator. How would I "tithe" to the NEA even if I were what Coulter calls a "liberal?"

But onto your latest:
quote:
Originally posted by GK Paul

In response to Dr. Mabuse and Dave W. questions, Coutler states on page 17 and 18 that Rep. Nancy Pelosi told Democrats they should vote against the Rebublican budget as "an act of worship". Source Joseph Laconte, New York Times, Jan 2 2006.
And Coulter apparently stopped reading with Laconte's piece, instead of finding out why Pelosi said what she said. Let me quote from the Congressional Record (page H12241):
The gentleman from Washington State (Mr. McDermott) quoted the prophet Isaiah. My favorite saying from Isaiah is when he said: “To minister to the needs of God's creation is an act of worship. To ignore those needs is to dishonor the God who made us.”

Let us vote “no” on this budget as an act of worship and for America's children.
That, after she discussed how the budget shortchanges children, the elderly and students. She was talking about worshipping the Christian God, not about worshipping liberalism. And it took me a whole five minutes to figure this out. How long did it take you to get sucked in by another of Coulter's misrepresentations, GK Paul?
quote:
Coulter goes on to say that a former Time magazine White House correspondent [I'm withholding the name but Coulter gives it on page 18] told the Wahington Post in 1998 that she would be happy to give {Clinton oral sex} to thank him for keeping abortion Legal...
Well, another stupid thing said by some idiot or other, and not someone that liberals would consider "infallible" or even any evidence that abortion is some sort of bizarre "sacrament." Of course, Nina Burleigh went on to say, "It was a joke I deeply regret making." She also said, "I think American women should be lining up with their presidential knee-pads on to show their gratitude for keeping the theocracy off our backs." Did Coulter write about that?
quote:
Also churches don't want their followers to use profanity and according to Coulter liberals are discouraged from using the word abortion.
I guess that's something else that Coulter is lying about, 'cause I see liberals encouraging people to talk about abortion all the time, using the word "abortion" to do so.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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