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Ghost_Skeptic
SFN Regular

Canada
510 Posts

Posted - 09/11/2006 :  22:58:00  Show Profile Send Ghost_Skeptic a Private Message
A new paper suggests that a cytokine storm (an over reaction by the immune system) is what kills people infected with H5N1 (Bird flu). The same response is believed to have been the major cause of death from the 1918 Spanish flu. A cytokine storm is also what nearly killed 6 volunteers during a drug trial in Britain recently.

I have always considered the immune system to be an examble of Unintelligent design. It is like having a police force made up of vicous psycopaths - they will get rid of the criminals but may turn on us at any time as our immune system does with allergies, auto immune diseases and cytokine storms. Another of God's blunders.

What is your favourite example of unintelligent design?

"You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. / You can send a kid to college but you can't make him think." - B.B. King

History is made by stupid people - The Arrogant Worms

"The greater the ignorance the greater the dogmatism." - William Osler

"Religion is the natural home of the psychopath" - Pat Condell

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter" - Thomas Jefferson

H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard

USA
4573 Posts

Posted - 09/12/2006 :  00:25:08   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send H. Humbert a Private Message
quote:
What is your favourite example of unintelligent design?
The reproductive system sharing an orifice with the excretory system.


"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman

"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 09/12/2006 :  02:22:56   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
The human spine. It belongs to a quadraped and is ill-equiped to carry our upper body weight in a vertical position.

The vision center of the brain. It is way 'round the back, making impluses from the eye travel farther than necessary.

There are so many of them! How 'bout mouth parts on non-feeding animals such as adult mayflies and some species of flatworm. And the second, unused lung in serpents.

In all fairness -- Pretty Damn' Good Design: the octopus and the *heh* stingray. They are very well equiped for what they do.




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

Edited by - filthy on 09/12/2006 03:35:01
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woolytoad
Skeptic Friend

313 Posts

Posted - 09/12/2006 :  04:31:30   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send woolytoad a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by filthy

The human spine. It belongs to a quadraped and is ill-equiped to carry our upper body weight in a vertical position.

The vision center of the brain. It is way 'round the back, making impluses from the eye travel farther than necessary.

There are so many of them! How 'bout mouth parts on non-feeding animals such as adult mayflies and some species of flatworm. And the second, unused lung in serpents.

In all fairness -- Pretty Damn' Good Design: the octopus and the *heh* stingray. They are very well equiped for what they do.




Also, as with all engineering, there are always trade offs. Perhaps certain features were selected at the expense of another because they are more beneficial???
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 09/12/2006 :  04:44:17   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message
woolytoad said:
quote:
Also, as with all engineering, there are always trade offs. Perhaps certain features were selected at the expense of another because they are more beneficial???


Or as long as a trait doesn't decrease fitness (the ability to pass genes along to the next generation) it is not selected against.

We humans are probably stuck with our crappy spines unless some environmental pressure comes along that starts selecting for a spine more appropriate to bipedal upright posture.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 09/12/2006 :  05:35:37   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
There's an old guy -- y'all probably know him; he lives right close by. He's the drifty, old fart with the ramshackle garage full of tools and great, rusty piles of apparent junk that everyone who goes in there stumbles over. But if you need something fixed, he's the man to see. He'll dig through his incomprehensible collection of crap and fish out odd bits and pieces, and get your what-ever up and running. Of course, it might not much resemble that which you brought to him, and it will no longer fit the box it came in, but it will make do. And it won't cost you much at all.

In the biological community, that old fart's name is Evolution.

Evolution does not seek perfection. Evolution works with whatever is laying around the shop, and thus, as our distant ancestors were quadrapeds, and the original spine could be made to work reasonably well, we're stuck with it.

Something else the semi-compentent, old bastard screwed up was to not remove, when it was no longer necessary, that tidy, little, potential time bomb on the tag end of our large intestines. Or was that so intelligently designed and he dared not tamper with it?




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

Edited by - filthy on 09/12/2006 07:04:56
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
24918 Posts

Posted - 09/12/2006 :  07:12:57   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Ghost_Skeptic

What is your favourite example of unintelligent design?
The fact that our breathing tubes intersect with our eating tubes, thus ensuring that we risk death by choking every time we ingest life-sustaining food, has gotta be one of the all-time boneheaded decisions of any allegedly intelligent designer.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Ghost_Skeptic
SFN Regular

Canada
510 Posts

Posted - 09/12/2006 :  07:28:02   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Ghost_Skeptic a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by woolytoad


Also, as with all engineering, there are always trade offs. Perhaps certain features were selected at the expense of another because they are more beneficial???



The difference between evolution and engineering is that evolution never starts with a "clean slate" it always has to build on what went before leading to all sorts of non-optimal solutions.

"You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. / You can send a kid to college but you can't make him think." - B.B. King

History is made by stupid people - The Arrogant Worms

"The greater the ignorance the greater the dogmatism." - William Osler

"Religion is the natural home of the psychopath" - Pat Condell

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter" - Thomas Jefferson
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 09/12/2006 :  08:58:05   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
Some might say that the human brain was a major 'aw shit!' After all, what other species gets into or causes the endless and unnecessary insanity that marks at least some of our every endevor?

And then, there is the skull that contains that ridiculous brain. I do not know of any other species where the head causes the same difficulties in giving birth.




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

Edited by - filthy on 09/12/2006 08:59:19
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9451 Posts

Posted - 09/12/2006 :  13:44:25   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Ghost_Skeptic

A new paper suggests that a cytokine storm (an over reaction by the immune system) is what kills people infected with H5N1 (Bird flu). The same response is believed to have been the major cause of death from the 1918 Spanish flu. A cytokine storm is also what nearly killed 6 volunteers during a drug trial in Britain recently.
If that is the case, then shouldn't it be possible to put some restraint on the immune-system to block such a cytokine storm?
If so, then there is a possibility to further lower the mortality rate of the avian flue.

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
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pleco
SFN Addict

USA
2995 Posts

Posted - 09/12/2006 :  13:57:01   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send pleco a Private Message
Nipples on Men!

by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart.
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 09/12/2006 :  14:09:09   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
Seems to me that the foot could be better designed. It evolved from a grasping appendage of an ape-like creature, and is not really suitable for much beyond walking.

We are very slow runners, poor climbers, and clumsy swimmers. And our feet are quite easily injured, rendering us incapable of even walking. There's gotta be a better design.

Just a thought....

Another thought is our knees. Any athelete will tell you that a drunk welder/fabricator could rig up better.




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard

USA
4573 Posts

Posted - 09/12/2006 :  14:19:15   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send H. Humbert a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by pleco

Nipples on Men!

Eh, I don't mind the nipples, but I would have liked to have seen the testicles housed somewhere inside the ribcage.


"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman

"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie
Edited by - H. Humbert on 09/12/2006 14:27:28
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Hawks
SFN Regular

Canada
1383 Posts

Posted - 09/12/2006 :  14:33:59   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Hawks's Homepage Send Hawks a Private Message
quote:
I would have like to have seen the testicles housed somewhere inside the ribcage.

Couldn't agree more. EVERY male must surely have felt the bad effects of this design now and then. My worst was standing up on the pedals when cycling. Then my feet slipped... Also, I once caused one of my friends of a great deal of pain. My serve when playing tennis used to be (while not incredibly accurate) quite hard. After one of my serves, my friend sensed the impending danger and tried to jump out of the way (he jumped up). Put it like this: had he stood still, the ball would have hit him in the stomach. Gosh, we were both down on the ground after that (for different reasons, obviously).

As for other bad designs: I always disliked sinks where there are two taps: one for cold and one for warm. I mean, your choice with this setup is either frost-bite or third degree burns. Unintelligent.

METHINKS IT IS LIKE A WEASEL
It's a small, off-duty czechoslovakian traffic warden!
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pleco
SFN Addict

USA
2995 Posts

Posted - 09/12/2006 :  14:58:15   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send pleco a Private Message
quote:
I would have liked to have seen the testicles housed somewhere inside the ribcage


Without getting too pornographic there are some pros to their current location.

by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart.
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