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 Oct 5->World Can't Wait massive protest event
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 09/23/2006 :  00:36:52  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
Event locations

I assume you've been hearing about this. Thought I'd mention it and encourage participation if you are willing and able.

beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 09/25/2006 :  00:58:21   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
No comments here.

On JREF I've been replied to by a band of conservatives (the usual response with these guys) claiming the event is sponsored by some flaky communist group. And there are all sorts of web sites implying the same thing. So I took a look at the validity of the claims and the event sponsors. There are a few radicals among them but other than that the Web and JREF forum members replying in the thread appear to be spreading Swift Boat style lies about this event. It has the flavor of an organized attempt to lessen the impact of the event (not implying anyone on the JREF forum is involved other than to be part of the target audience). I'll let you know what a more detailed investigation turns up.
Edited by - beskeptigal on 09/25/2006 01:00:50
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4826 Posts

Posted - 09/25/2006 :  04:59:31   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal

No comments here.

On JREF I've been replied to by a band of conservatives (the usual response with these guys) claiming the event is sponsored by some flaky communist group. And there are all sorts of web sites implying the same thing. So I took a look at the validity of the claims and the event sponsors. There are a few radicals among them but other than that the Web and JREF forum members replying in the thread appear to be spreading Swift Boat style lies about this event. It has the flavor of an organized attempt to lessen the impact of the event (not implying anyone on the JREF forum is involved other than to be part of the target audience). I'll let you know what a more detailed investigation turns up.



I noted the same "guilt by association" group with ANSWER as well. I banged heads with them for quite a while and even pointed out that they were in two seperate offices with different phone numbers contrary to their assertations to the contrary.

While there are some Communist members and founders, they by no means have steering control or ideological control of such a diverse group of individuals. There are some members of JREF who are convinced that the mere taint of Communist support makes the whole group a commie plot.


Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

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Original_Intent
SFN Regular

USA
609 Posts

Posted - 09/25/2006 :  05:02:35   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Original_Intent a Private Message
It too bad that some of them are open to "all" activist groups. Just what the message needs, a rabble riot. It only took a few of the idiots to destroy and sully the process in Seattle......

And what is up with the mosque in NY? The Muslim community does not need to be involved in this. It can do nothing but detract from the message to the people who will get the message from a 2-minute clip on TV..... especialy if there are any problems.....

Peace
Joe

Edited by - Original_Intent on 09/25/2006 05:04:42
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 09/28/2006 :  00:30:11   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
Well in battling the JREF Bush supporters (and Republicans who claim they don't support Bush but they happen to get annoyed at every post of mine which points out Bush flaws), I did a lot more research. There are some communists among the organizers. Beyond that the whole charge is bogus. A web link was posted claiming it was a communist event and, "did all those people (meaning the long list of endorsements) really know they were supporting a group of commies?" The site had a whole slew of 'selected photos' of last year's event with probably everything related to the Socialist Workers Party and the communist party they could find. So I searched Google images of the event from last year and other than signs which had strong language like, "Drive the Bush Regime out", there wasn't evidence of a communist in sight.

It also turned out the loudest mouths claiming the event is a commie plot was David Horowitz and Michelle Malkin.

It seems so funny to me to even care if people claim to be communists. It seems so passe'. The Libertarian Party Platform isn't exactly the ideal version of the way to run things either and you don't see people freaking out about that.
Edited by - beskeptigal on 09/28/2006 00:31:14
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Starman
SFN Regular

Sweden
1613 Posts

Posted - 09/28/2006 :  00:58:16   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Starman a Private Message
I'm surprised that they don't call it a islamofascist event...

I thought it was the neo-con buzzword of the day.
Edited by - Starman on 09/28/2006 01:00:54
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard

USA
3739 Posts

Posted - 09/28/2006 :  03:30:24   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit marfknox's Homepage  Send marfknox an AOL message Send marfknox a Private Message
I haven't been too fond of World Can't Wait ever since they staged a protest to make a lot of noise to drown out President Bush giving his state of the union speech. What does it philosophically say when you literally drown out what your enemy is saying so you can't hear it?

"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong

Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com

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Luke T.
Skeptic Friend

140 Posts

Posted - 10/04/2006 :  08:13:56   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Luke T. a Private Message
beskeptigal, some of those people on JREF you are lumping together as "a band of conservatives" are actually left-wingers who are quite opposed to Bush. Your ignorance of their political leanings is uproariously laughable.

And don't just take the word of other media sources. Ask the WCW people themselves about their political origins:

quote:
Q: But aren't there communists in World Can't Wait?

A: Yeah, there are. Supporters of the Revolutionary Communist Party helped initiate it. They're in it because they think it's absolutely urgent to get rid of this regime, that it would both lift a huge burden from the world and would also give people a sense of their own potential power, and they think all that would open up avenues to get to the kind of society they want. Same as a whole lot of other people in World Can't Wait which, by the way, includes Greens, Christians, Republicans, anarchists, Muslims, Jews, feminists, Democrats, pacifists, and people who claim no affiliation also think it's urgent to drive out the Bush Regime and also think it can help lead to bigger changes that they want in society, coming from their own viewpoints.


http://worldcantwait.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2160&Itemid=2

Heh. "Supporters" of the Revolutionary Communist Party helped start WCW. One of those "supporters" is the CHAIRMAIN of the RCP.

Read their site. It is immediately obvious that while they claim to be composed of people from all walks of life, they are all about the communist agenda.

quote:
Who's NOT Gonna Stop This War…
There is a logic to an attack on Iran not only from the standpoint of the neocons and Bush, but for the “opposition” Democratic Party as well. For the neocons, a U.S. dominated Iran is key to radically reshaping the Middle East, come what may. It is a critical part of their articulated vision of the U.S. as the world's new Roman Empire—a sole, unchallengeable superpower. For the Democrats, who may have had reservations about embarking on this adventure in Iraq, or may have regrets about how it worked out, they are—in the words of Al Gore—“lashed to the mast of our ship of state.” Like it or not, they are along for the ride because to bail now would—judged by the interests of U.S. imperialism —represent a major and destabilizing setback for U.S. imperialism.

A revolutionary understanding of the forces driving all this is explored in a very in-depth and strategic way in recent talks by Bob Avakian, Chairman of the Revolutionary Communist Party, USA—in particular in the talk “Why We're in the Situation We're In Today…And What To Do About It: A Thoroughly Rotten System and the Need for Revolution.” That talk, and six other critical recent talks by Bob Avakian, are available for download at bobavakian.net, or revcom.us.


http://www.worldcantwait.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2810&Itemid=220

If you want to be another Democratic useful idiot for a bunch of maoists, that's your business. Just don't delude yourself into believing this is some kind of "mainstream" movement just because they don't like Bush.

Attending their protests is as stupid as attending a rally sponsored by the American Nazi Party just because they are opposed to something you are opposed to.

I will bet you a year's supply of donuts that the praises of Cuba and North Korea will be sung at this rally.



Edited by - Luke T. on 10/04/2006 08:15:44
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Luke T.
Skeptic Friend

140 Posts

Posted - 10/04/2006 :  08:18:17   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Luke T. a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Luke T.

beskeptigal, some of those people on JREF you are lumping together as "a band of conservatives" are actually left-wingers who are quite opposed to Bush. Your ignorance of their political leanings is uproariously laughable.

And don't just take the word of other media sources. Ask the WCW people themselves about their political origins:

quote:
Q: But aren't there communists in World Can't Wait?

A: Yeah, there are. Supporters of the Revolutionary Communist Party helped initiate it. They're in it because they think it's absolutely urgent to get rid of this regime, that it would both lift a huge burden from the world and would also give people a sense of their own potential power, and they think all that would open up avenues to get to the kind of society they want. Same as a whole lot of other people in World Can't Wait which, by the way, includes Greens, Christians, Republicans, anarchists, Muslims, Jews, feminists, Democrats, pacifists, and people who claim no affiliation also think it's urgent to drive out the Bush Regime and also think it can help lead to bigger changes that they want in society, coming from their own viewpoints.


http://worldcantwait.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2160&Itemid=2

Heh. "Supporters" of the Revolutionary Communist Party helped start WCW. One of those "supporters" is the CHAIRMAN of the RCP.

Read their site. It is immediately obvious that while they claim to be composed of people from all walks of life, they are all about the communist agenda.

quote:
Who's NOT Gonna Stop This War…
There is a logic to an attack on Iran not only from the standpoint of the neocons and Bush, but for the “opposition” Democratic Party as well. For the neocons, a U.S. dominated Iran is key to radically reshaping the Middle East, come what may. It is a critical part of their articulated vision of the U.S. as the world's new Roman Empire—a sole, unchallengeable superpower. For the Democrats, who may have had reservations about embarking on this adventure in Iraq, or may have regrets about how it worked out, they are—in the words of Al Gore—“lashed to the mast of our ship of state.” Like it or not, they are along for the ride because to bail now would—judged by the interests of U.S. imperialism —represent a major and destabilizing setback for U.S. imperialism.

A revolutionary understanding of the forces driving all this is explored in a very in-depth and strategic way in recent talks by Bob Avakian, Chairman of the Revolutionary Communist Party, USA—in particular in the talk “Why We're in the Situation We're In Today…And What To Do About It: A Thoroughly Rotten System and the Need for Revolution.” That talk, and six other critical recent talks by Bob Avakian, are available for download at bobavakian.net, or revcom.us.


http://www.worldcantwait.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2810&Itemid=220

If you want to be another Democratic useful idiot for a bunch of maoists, that's your business. Just don't delude yourself into believing this is some kind of "mainstream" movement just because they don't like Bush.

Attending their protests is as stupid as attending a rally sponsored by the American Nazi Party just because they are opposed to something you are opposed to.

I will bet you a year's supply of donuts that the praises of Cuba and North Korea will be sung at this rally.





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Luke T.
Skeptic Friend

140 Posts

Posted - 10/04/2006 :  08:31:17   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Luke T. a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer

quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal

No comments here.

On JREF I've been replied to by a band of conservatives (the usual response with these guys) claiming the event is sponsored by some flaky communist group. And there are all sorts of web sites implying the same thing. So I took a look at the validity of the claims and the event sponsors. There are a few radicals among them but other than that the Web and JREF forum members replying in the thread appear to be spreading Swift Boat style lies about this event. It has the flavor of an organized attempt to lessen the impact of the event (not implying anyone on the JREF forum is involved other than to be part of the target audience). I'll let you know what a more detailed investigation turns up.



I noted the same "guilt by association" group with ANSWER as well. I banged heads with them for quite a while and even pointed out that they were in two seperate offices with different phone numbers contrary to their assertations to the contrary.


In some cities, ANSWER and the WWP are in the same office and use the same phone. I proved this beyond dispute a few years ago on JREF by posting the phone numbers which anyone could check for themselves. In other cities, they are in the same building with different phones.

There is no doubt that ANSWER is a WWP front.

quote:
While there are some Communist members and founders, they by no means have steering control or ideological control of such a diverse group of individuals.


Unmitigated bullshit. They have total control of ANSWER. Do some serious research like I did. Make calls for yourself and ask them. They don't hide the fact they are part of the WWP.

Look at the literature available at these rallies, and ask yourself what would happen if someone unveiled a swastika at a right-wing rally. They'd be run out on a rail. But unleash a hammer and sickle at a WCW or ANSWER rally, and you are hailed.

quote:
There are some members of JREF who are convinced that the mere taint of Communist support makes the whole group a commie plot.



Like I said. Check it out for yourself. Ask them if their goals are Communist or Democrat. Ask them which is better. The communist plan or the Democrat one.

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Luke T.
Skeptic Friend

140 Posts

Posted - 10/04/2006 :  08:34:50   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Luke T. a Private Message
You want to delude yourself that the anti-war movement is not being hijacked by Communists, go right ahead. I bet is just mystifies the daylights out of you why the anti-war movement makes such little headway in the mainstream media, doesn't it?

Anyone who spends five minutes at their rallies can see the clear communist influence at work.

Maybe they ought to get more coverage. Show the communist symbols on display and the rants against Israel and Jews, and the glorification of Cuba and North Korea. That would really help Bush's ratings climb.

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Luke T.
Skeptic Friend

140 Posts

Posted - 10/04/2006 :  08:45:44   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Luke T. a Private Message
quote:
With a membership of approximately 2,000 people, WWP has been extremely effective in organizing the massive anti-war rallies of recent years, some of which have drawn hundreds of thousands of participants. It is the driving force behind Ramsey Clark's International Action Center and International ANSWER; WWP activists run both organizations. Several key ANSWER officials — including Brian Becker, Larry Holmes, Teresa Gutierrez, Sarah Sloan, and Sara Flounders — are WWP members.


http://www.discoverthenetwork.org/groupProfile.asp?grpid=6603



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Luke T.
Skeptic Friend

140 Posts

Posted - 10/04/2006 :  08:51:28   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Luke T. a Private Message
quote:
Production for profit or for human need?
From a talk by Sarah Sloan at the Dec. 2-3 Workers World Party conference.


From the WWP web site: http://www.workers.org/ww/2001/sarahs0111.php

quote:
ANSWER National Headquarters
Washington, D.C.
Contact: Sarah Sloan
202-544-3389
1247 E Street, S.E.
Washington, D.C. 20003


From the International A.N.S.W.E.R. web site: http://answer.pephost.org/site/PageServer?pagename=ANS_media


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Luke T.
Skeptic Friend

140 Posts

Posted - 10/04/2006 :  08:52:58   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Luke T. a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Luke T.

quote:
Production for profit or for human need?
From a talk by Sarah Sloan at the Dec. 2-3 Workers World Party conference.


From the WWP web site: http://www.workers.org/ww/2001/sarahs0111.php

quote:
ANSWER National Headquarters
Washington, D.C.
Contact: Sarah Sloan
202-544-3389
1247 E Street, S.E.
Washington, D.C. 20003


From the International A.N.S.W.E.R. web site: http://answer.pephost.org/site/PageServer?pagename=ANS_media




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Luke T.
Skeptic Friend

140 Posts

Posted - 10/04/2006 :  09:04:10   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Luke T. a Private Message
quote:
Teresa Gutierrez, co-director of the International Action Center and national
coordinator of its Colombia Project, is organizing activists to join the caravan.


From the WWP's own newspaper: http://www.workers.org/pdf/2004/ww051304.pdf

quote:
TERESA GUTIERREZ of New York
Workers World Party
Vice Presidential Nominee


http://www.politics1.com/wwp04.htm

Anyone who thinks "while there are some Communist members and founders, they by no means have steering control or ideological control of such a diverse group of individuals" is an idiot.
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Luke T.
Skeptic Friend

140 Posts

Posted - 10/04/2006 :  09:11:10   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Luke T. a Private Message
quote:
Watch Carl Dix, Spokesperson for the Revolutionary Communist Party, speaking at the Jan. 31st NYC rally.


http://worldcantwait.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=992&Itemid=210
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