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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25976 Posts

Posted - 11/06/2006 :  12:22:10   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo

Good then. You were asking me to explain the word 'criminal' to me.
No, I was asking you to explain your use of the word 'criminal' right after you said that it doesn't always mean "someone who has committed a crime."
quote:
When I asked you to explain, you showed instances in which I used other words, and then asked me to explain my use of the word 'criminal' in those sentences. Sentences which did not contain the word 'criminal.'
No, I quoted you talking about actual crimes and "international law" to show the context in which you were also using the word 'criminal', but then you stated that 'criminal' doesn't always mean "someone who has committed a crime."
quote:
When I asked you to clarify, you refused, and I was the asshole for asking you to clarify.
You appeared to be - and continue to appear to be - playing some sort of game wherein you gratify yourself by deliberately ignoring the plain meaning of a person's words in favor of an easy-to-ridicule caricature of them, at which point you also complain that nobody understands you (which was why I asked the question in the first place).

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 11/06/2006 :  12:36:35   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message
Plain meaning? You asked me to tell you the meaning of the sentences in which I used the word 'criminal' in the sentences which did not contain the word criminal. I asked you to clarify, and you refused. I used the words that I meant to use, and they were simple words, so I did not know how else to answer. If you didn't understand some sentence, then ask me what I meant in that sentence. Otherwise, I can't imagine what meaning you think you may have given to something that I said.

I also explained why in one instance, the War Resister's League used the word 'criminal' in a way that did not necessarily involve the violations of existing laws, and why I used that particular word in that instance, and that that may have been the occasion in which Dude supposedly assumed that I said that all wars were a violation of international law, even though I think I was careful to explain my use of that particular word. Whatever else you're talking about, if you're sincere, you'll have to explain. If you're not sincere, and the jury is out, then, well, that would be good to know.

I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



Edited by - Gorgo on 11/06/2006 12:43:59
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25976 Posts

Posted - 11/06/2006 :  12:50:29   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo

Plain meaning? You asked me to tell you the meaning of the sentences in which I used the word 'criminal' in the sentences which did not contain the word criminal.
No, I asked you to explain whether by "criminal" you meant "a person who had committed a crime" within the context of all your other talk about crimes and international law, after you'd said that "criminal" doesn't always mean "someone who has committed a crime." Or was the word "context" not "simple" enough?
quote:
I asked you to clarify, and you refused.
Yes, I was fed up with the game you were playing, and are now playing again.
quote:
I used the words that I meant to use...
I had absolutely no doubt of that: I was asking you to clarify your meaning, and you refused.
quote:
...and they were simple words, so I did not know how to answer.
Simple words with more than one meaning (a fact you specifically pointed out not once, but twice), which was my whole reason for asking you for clarification in the first place.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 11/06/2006 :  13:16:55   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message
One of the sentences that you used as an example had the phrase, "violation of international law."

How is that to be taken as having several meanings. Is it that the word "violation" can have sexual connotations, and you think I meant "fuck the cheeseburger?" Is that it?

Like I said, Dave. Games.

I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25976 Posts

Posted - 11/06/2006 :  15:14:27   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Gorgo

One of the sentences that you used as an example had the phrase, "violation of international law."

How is that to be taken as having several meanings. Is it that the word "violation" can have sexual connotations, and you think I meant "fuck the cheeseburger?" Is that it?

Like I said, Dave. Games.
Indeed, Gorgo, your games are incredibly annoying. I was asking how the word "criminal" means something other than "someone who has committed a crime" (like you pointed out it can) within the context of phrases like "violation of international law," and you pretend to not understand what I'm asking.

And then the next play in your game is that you switch the referent from the word "criminal" to the word "violation," so that you can call me an idiot and an asshole without actually using either word, so you can still lay claim the moral high ground when it comes to insults, even though your ruse is so transparent it's hard to believe that you think it will work on anyone (except me, of course, since you think I'm an idiot).

Why do you feel the need to start these games, Gorgo?

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 11/06/2006 :  16:13:17   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message
Thanks, Dave. We've established what you are as well as Dude. Now we know.

I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25976 Posts

Posted - 11/06/2006 :  16:22:39   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
I suppose you think so, Gorgo, but you're just blaming others for the games that you play (you can't even stop playing long enough to acknowledge that I'd explained what you said I'd refused to explain). And while we can all see that you're a very angry person, if anyone here understands why you're angry, they're not talking.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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McQ
Skeptic Friend

USA
258 Posts

Posted - 11/06/2006 :  17:12:55   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send McQ a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dude

This seems to be fairly prevelent among republicans these days.

Being anti-gay and a closted gay at the same time.

Anyone see Dawkins' "Root Of All Evil"?

Well, here's the preacher from that megachurch that kicked Dawkins off the property after a brief interview:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15536263/





I agree.

(is the thread back on track now?)

Elvis didn't do no drugs!
--Penn Gillette
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard

USA
3739 Posts

Posted - 11/06/2006 :  19:19:37   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit marfknox's Homepage  Send marfknox an AOL message Send marfknox a Private Message
Gorgo wrote:
quote:
The difference is his need to be insulting. My or your decision to be pissed off about something is irrelevant. This idea that "asshole" is part of a reasonable discussion is just over the top.
I think namecalling such as "asshole" and "idiot" and even things much more abrasive can be a part of reasonable discussion. It all depends on the context. That is why I have occasionally brought up, and here again bring up, Hunter S. Thompson's style of social criticism. Thompson is full of venom and extremely abrasive namecalling, but his unique rhetoric gets his points across in a way that would not be possible without his venom and colorful name/imagery. I love Thompson partially because he is a master of properly calling the right people "fuckers" and such in the right context.

Dude is not nearly the master Thompson is, but his namecalling does sometimes add to the conversation in a constructive manner. Sometimes it shuts a conversation down in a bad way. But for better or for worse, that is his style. Overall Dude is a great benefit to this forum, I'm glad he's around, and I enjoy much of what he has to say.

quote:
What was petty was for you to say that what I said about him was "totally a dodge" when you really had no idea what you were talking about, and it was him that was dodging (as well as calling people idiots and assholes).
Now you bring up stuff from another conversation. Ahem, but I did so know what I was talking about. You are also putting more cruel emphasis on my statements than was intended. You read venom into things when it isn't there. You take things personally that you shouldn't. How you respond to what people say is your responsibility. You are not innocent.

To sum up what I'm sayin', lighten up.

"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong

Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com

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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 11/07/2006 :  01:30:04   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message
quote:
I agree.
(is the thread back on track now?)



Evidently not.

Speaking on the topic, I can't disagree, but Republicans haven't cornered the market on hypocrisy, and I while my first reaction was to snicker, I find it hard to enjoy another's pain. Religion is not a positive force in the universe.

I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



Edited by - Gorgo on 11/07/2006 01:32:02
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 11/07/2006 :  04:29:11   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message
Ah Dude, it appears that your thread has gone far astray and should now be moved to Humor. Or Politics..... Pseudoscience....?

Ain't no big deal, really. I was gettin' kind'a tired of Pastor Ted, anyway. It's all so very sordid and inconsequential. It's good to see an hyprocrit take a fall, but, as I stated elsewhere: "Another one!"

I'm reading that there are numerous, more-or-less closeted gays on various Republican staffs, and it is a mystery to me as to why. Can it be that finding a position of some petty athurority will cause someone to work against their own, best interests?

So 'twould seem.




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Starman
SFN Regular

Sweden
1613 Posts

Posted - 11/07/2006 :  04:46:13   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Starman a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by filthy

I'm reading that there are numerous, more-or-less closeted gays on various Republican staffs, and it is a mystery to me as to why. Can it be that finding a position of some petty athurority will cause someone to work against their own, best interests?
My layman's guess,

They have been indoctrinated to believe that this part of their nature is evil, and must be repressed. This means that gay sex is on their mind a lot (Sex is like oxygen, it is only important when you are not getting any).
They can't stop their urges so they try to make it up to god by combating homosexuality in other ways.

"Any religion that makes a form of torture into an icon that they worship seems to me a pretty sick sort of religion quite honestly"
-- Terry Jones
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 11/07/2006 :  08:01:09   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message
filthy said:
quote:
I'm reading that there are numerous, more-or-less closeted gays on various Republican staffs, and it is a mystery to me as to why. Can it be that finding a position of some petty athurority will cause someone to work against their own, best interests?

So 'twould seem.



Well, the republicans can convince millions of poor, lower/middle class Americans to vote against their own best economic and political self interest.... so it isn't really a shock that they can convince homosexuals to be openly anti-gay. It probably has something to do with peer pressure. When all the people you associate with professionally are anti-gay, you can't really stand up and say the opposite without placing yourself at risk.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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trogdor
Skeptic Friend

198 Posts

Posted - 11/08/2006 :  22:11:48   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send trogdor a Private Message
Well I hate to bring this thread back on topic but I found this scientific tidbit too good to be pass up. association between homophobia and homosexuality


good times.


after you've got the basic idea with the abstract, here are some quotes:


quote:
Procedure
The procedure was explained to the participant on arrival at the laboratory. He was informed that he could terminate participation at any time, and he signed informed consent. The participant was accompanied to a soundproof chamber, where he was seated in a comfortable reclining chair and was given instructions on the proper placement of the MIR strain gauge. After the experimenter's departure from the experimental chamber into the adjoining equipment room, the participant attached the penile strain gauge. The adjoining equipment room housed the Grass polygraph, the videotape player, an IBM-compatible computer, and the two-way intercom. Once the participant indicated that the apparatus was in place by way of the intercom, a 4-min baseline was recorded in the absence of any stimuli. Next, the three sexually explicit videos were presented to the participant. Following each videotaped presentation, he rated his level of subjective sexual arousal (i.e., how "turned on" he was) and the degree of penile erection (i.e., from no change to 100% erection) on a scale of 0 to 10. The participant's penile circumference was allowed to return to baseline levels before the next stimulus was presented. The sequence of presentation was counterbalanced across participants to avoid order effects. Following the final presentation, the participant was debriefed and dismissed.


I hope I'm not violating any copyright laws by posting that. If I am, delete it.

all eyes were on Ford Prefect. some of them were on stalks.
-Douglas Adams
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Starman
SFN Regular

Sweden
1613 Posts

Posted - 12/12/2006 :  06:36:30   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Starman a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by trogdor

Well I hate to bring this thread back on topic but I found this scientific tidbit too good to be pass up. association between homophobia and homosexuality
Here goes another one - 2nd pastor resigns over gay sex scandal
quote:
ENGLEWOOD, Colo. - The founding pastor of a second Colorado church has resigned over gay sex allegations, just weeks after the evangelical community was shaken by the scandal surrounding megachurch leader Ted Haggard.
...
On the videotape, which The Post was allowed to view, Barnes told church members: "I have struggled with homosexuality since I was a 5-year-old boy. ... I can't tell you the number of nights I have cried myself to sleep, begging God to take this away."
Insane religion.....

"Any religion that makes a form of torture into an icon that they worship seems to me a pretty sick sort of religion quite honestly"
-- Terry Jones
Edited by - Starman on 12/12/2006 06:42:54
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