|
|
|
furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
 Posted - 01/10/2007 : 06:54:46 [Permalink]
|
Jeeze, this is pathetic.
|
If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
 |
|
|
marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2007 : 07:26:51 [Permalink]
|
Even though Dave pretty much trashed the argument that Tor makes in his film here (I did watch the whole thing. I actually found it to be amusing for the outlandish narration. Particularly the over-the-top-silly song at the end. In other words, I didn't take it seriously. But then, I like Dr. D.) but I want to know more about what Original Intent said here:
quote:
AmanhotepIV (Aman is Pleased) AKA Akhenaten.
Elevated the Aten (sun-disk) to a god. Not monotheastic, henotheistic with the new god Aten, who he also equated with his father, to the head of the pack. Around 1300 BC Not to be confused with Amun-Re.
Or
Amen (roughly "God who is trusted"), first written around 1400, but used previously in oral tradition.
Peace
Joe
Specifically, where'd you get your info? I'm just interested in the topic now. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
|
|
|
|
Original_Intent
SFN Regular
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2007 : 19:57:42 [Permalink]
|
Amanhotep/Akhenaten and the Aten..... I believe it was Durant's Our Oriental Heritage of all things, and not one of my mythology books. I am leary of a lot on the web. I like BBC history for browsing if I don't have a physical book in hand.
Amen - An old Jewsih aquanitence. He was noce to have around for all those strange questions I can come up with, like what Amen means....... I have heard the Amen from Amon-Ra, and from Amanhtep before, but it was in books with the eurocentric bend where Egyptians were of european heritage.
Henotheism - Worship of one god while accepting the existence of others. Hint: Don't call Judiasm a Henotheistic faith. They don't like it...... The answer I usually get is along hte lines of, well G_d killed Baal.......
Peace
Joe
|
|
|
|
ConsequentAtheist
SFN Regular
641 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2007 : 05:58:56 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by Original_Intent
Henotheism - Worship of one god while accepting the existence of others. Hint: Don't call Judiasm a Henotheistic faith. They don't like it......
Perhaps that's because it's an inaccurate and childish characterization. |
For the philosophical naturalist, the rejection of supernaturalism is a case of "death by a thousand cuts." -- Barbara Forrest, Ph.D. |
| Edited by - ConsequentAtheist on 01/11/2007 05:59:27 |
|
|
|
furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2007 : 14:12:14 [Permalink]
|
quote:
quote:
Originally posted by Original_Intent
Henotheism - Worship of one god while accepting the existence of others. Hint: Don't call Judiasm a Henotheistic faith. They don't like it......
Perhaps that's because it's an inaccurate and childish characterization.
Exodus 18:11
Now I know that the LORD is greater than all other gods, for he did this to those who had treated Israel arrogantly."
Exodus 15:11
"Who among the gods is like you, O LORD ? Who is like you— majestic in holiness, awesome in glory, working wonders?
Numbers 33:4
who were burying all their firstborn, whom the LORD had struck down among them; for the LORD had brought judgment on their gods.
Deuteronomy 10:17
For the LORD your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great God, mighty and awesome, who shows no partiality and accepts no bribes.
I know that it is not the current belief that there are other gods besides Yaweh, however it is pretty clear that the OT writers did believe that there were other gods.
|
If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
|
|
|
Original_Intent
SFN Regular
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2007 : 15:09:55 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by ConsequentAtheist
quote:
Originally posted by Original_Intent
Henotheism - Worship of one god while accepting the existence of others. Hint: Don't call Judiasm a Henotheistic faith. They don't like it......
Perhaps that's because it's an inaccurate and childish characterization.
Care to elaborate?
Peace
Joe |
|
|
|
Neurosis
SFN Regular
USA
675 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2007 : 15:28:06 [Permalink]
|
| I have a suggestion for TOR. Why don't you post some of your arguments in the forums without all of the theatrics? The video route does not seem to be hitting home. |
Facts! Pssh, you can prove anything even remotely true with facts.
- Homer Simpson
[God] is an infinite nothing from nowhere with less power over our universe than the secretary of agriculture.
- Prof. Frink
Lisa: Yes, but wouldn't you rather know the truth than to delude yourself for happiness?
Marge: Well... um.... [goes outside to jump on tampoline with Homer.] |
|
|
|
ConsequentAtheist
SFN Regular
641 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2007 : 17:01:38 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by furshur
quote:
quote:
Originally posted by Original_Intent
Henotheism - Worship of one god while accepting the existence of others. Hint: Don't call Judiasm a Henotheistic faith. They don't like it......
Perhaps that's because it's an inaccurate and childish characterization.
I know that it is not the current belief that there are other gods besides Yaweh, however it is pretty clear that the OT writers did believe that there were other gods.
No doubt about it ... |
For the philosophical naturalist, the rejection of supernaturalism is a case of "death by a thousand cuts." -- Barbara Forrest, Ph.D. |
|
|
|
ConsequentAtheist
SFN Regular
641 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2007 : 17:14:18 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by Original_Intent
quote:
Originally posted by ConsequentAtheist
quote:
Originally posted by Original_Intent
Henotheism - Worship of one god while accepting the existence of others. Hint: Don't call Judiasm a Henotheistic faith. They don't like it......
Perhaps that's because it's an inaccurate and childish characterization.
Care to elaborate?
Baiting Jews with the taunt of henotheism is as worthless and adolescent as is baiting chemists with the taunt of alchemy. |
For the philosophical naturalist, the rejection of supernaturalism is a case of "death by a thousand cuts." -- Barbara Forrest, Ph.D. |
|
|
|
marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2007 : 19:30:22 [Permalink]
|
I gotta side with ConsequentAtheist on this henotheistic Jews thing. Obviously Judaism hasn't been henotheistic for a long time. Unless someone is denying that the ancient Jews were probably henotheistic, I don't see what the point of ribbing modern Jews over it is.
Lately I've been seeing a between-a-rock-and-hard-place trap some skeptics have been setting for religious folks. Some religious critics, such as Sam Harris in his book The End of Faith, criticize religion for remaining static, rather than progressing. But then often the same critics, including Harris, dismiss progressive religions which have changed dramatically to reflect social and scientific progress.
If a religious group here and now is to be criticized, it should be criticized for what it is and does here and now. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
|
| Edited by - marfknox on 01/11/2007 19:31:43 |
|
|
|
ConsequentAtheist
SFN Regular
641 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2007 : 19:40:23 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by marfknox
... Lately I've been seeing a between-a-rock-and-hard-place trap some skeptics have been setting for religious folks. Some religious critics, such as Sam Harris in his book The End of Faith, criticize religion for remaining static, rather than progressing. But then often the same critics, including Harris, dismiss progressive religions which have changed dramatically to reflect social and scientific progress.
If a religious group here and now is to be criticized, it should be criticized for what it is and does here and now.
Thank you, marfknox. |
For the philosophical naturalist, the rejection of supernaturalism is a case of "death by a thousand cuts." -- Barbara Forrest, Ph.D. |
|
|
|
furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2007 : 20:43:50 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Baiting Jews with the taunt of henotheism is as worthless and adolescent as is baiting chemists with the taunt of alchemy.
Hmm. It never occured to me that this was meant as taunting or baiting. I don't quite get why the henotheism comment was so bad when memebers frequently characterize religion as mythology, myself included.
I thought we were only soft on Buddhists.
edit spelling |
If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
| Edited by - furshur on 01/11/2007 21:03:56 |
|
|
|
H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2007 : 20:51:29 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by furshur
Hmm. It never occured to me that this was meant as taunting or baiting. I don't quite get why the henotheism comment was so bad when memebers frequently caracterize religion as mythology, myself included.
I thought we were only soft on Buddhists.
Right. Jews already believe in one god, but implying they might believe in more than one is somehow demeaning to them? Why? It isn't like 1000 gods are somehow more improbable than 1 god existing.
I don't get it either. It's like admitting I believe in a unicorn, but getting pissed if someone described me as believing in unicorns. 
|
"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 01/11/2007 20:53:45 |
|
|
|
Original_Intent
SFN Regular
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2007 : 22:30:26 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by ConsequentAtheist
quote:
Originally posted by Original_Intent
quote:
Originally posted by ConsequentAtheist
quote:
Originally posted by Original_Intent
Henotheism - Worship of one god while accepting the existence of others. Hint: Don't call Judiasm a Henotheistic faith. They don't like it......
Perhaps that's because it's an inaccurate and childish characterization.
Care to elaborate?
Baiting Jews with the taunt of henotheism is as worthless and adolescent as is baiting chemists with the taunt of alchemy.
LOL. It was more tounge-in-cheek, it just dosen't always translate well over the net.... But, hey, an atheist running to the defense of my Jewsih freinds (or any religion) is always nice to see......
Peace
Joe |
|
|
|
Original_Intent
SFN Regular
USA
609 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2007 : 22:35:53 [Permalink]
|
quote:
Originally posted by marfknox
I gotta side with ConsequentAtheist on this henotheistic Jews thing. Obviously Judaism hasn't been henotheistic for a long time. Unless someone is denying that the ancient Jews were probably henotheistic, I don't see what the point of ribbing modern Jews over it is.
Lately I've been seeing a between-a-rock-and-hard-place trap some skeptics have been setting for religious folks. Some religious critics, such as Sam Harris in his book The End of Faith, criticize religion for remaining static, rather than progressing. But then often the same critics, including Harris, dismiss progressive religions which have changed dramatically to reflect social and scientific progress.
If a religious group here and now is to be criticized, it should be criticized for what it is and does here and now.
Again, tounge-in-cheeck...
I have a respect for most religions, and do not taunt them.
Peace
Joe |
|
|
 |
|
Topic Locked
