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Original_Intent
SFN Regular
USA
609 Posts |
 Posted - 01/25/2007 : 20:21:47 [Permalink]
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Ouch. I need a boatload of towels to get all of this egg off of my face.......
Actually, I do have to change course. I have always heard them refered to as Democrats. I have never noticed. I always hear Democrats and Republicans. He's a Democrat, He's a Republicans. My mistake. Pretty small in the scheme of things, but apologies to all the folks of the Democratic party.
At least I have an excuse.....
Peace and ommlettes
Joe |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2007 : 23:20:01 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by McQ
What's more likely? He got clever all of a sudden or just barfed up his speech because he so used to using the word wrong?
He is stupid, but he has clever speech-writers. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2007 : 00:23:25 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
quote:
Originally posted by McQ
What's more likely? He got clever all of a sudden or just barfed up his speech because he so used to using the word wrong?
He is stupid, but he has clever speech-writers.
The written speach says democratic... He changed that on the fly. Or they wrote it out correctly so they could claim it was a gaff... |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2007 : 02:36:59 [Permalink]
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Someday, he'll probably shrug off Iraq as a gaff, too, and grin when he does it.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2007 : 03:01:55 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by McQ
I don't know if we can have it both ways here. We tend to say what a moron a certain Executive branch leader is, and how he can't make a good speech. Now we try to give him too much credit for being really clever and slipping in Democrat?
I don't buy it. This is the same guy who pronounces the word Nuke-YOU-lur. I mean, for Pete's sake, he's got the friggin' launch codes and can't even pronounce that word right!
I think it was just an idiotic slip. Occam's razor leads me to that belief with him. What's more likely? He got clever all of a sudden or just barfed up his speech because he so used to using the word wrong?
If HM is correct and there is a facial cue coincident to the use of the word, that is evidence it was purposeful. Don't confuse Bush's total ineptness answering unrehearsed questions with his enunciation giving a rehearsed speech.
Once he screwed up 'nuclear', I'm sure the Party machine decided to go with it as a country boy, not educated elite, etc etc speaking mannerism. If Bush had changed his pronunciation, it would have been an admission he couldn't even pronounce a common word. By keeping the mis-pronunciation, it gave an image it was just his chosen mannerism rather than his ignorant pronunciation.
If you don't think the Republicans invest considerable time and effort into this persuasion campaign, you are overlooking a lot of evidence. Look up what the USA Patriot Act stands for. That acronym had to have taken quite an effort. Read the stuff on Gingrich promoting the positive/negative word campaign. Look into the 'talking points' memos. Why is an escalation in the Iraq war being called a "surge"?
I really wasn't implying the single mis-stated 'Democratic majority' in the speech was expected to have a massive effect. The totality of the positive/negative word campaign certainly is very effective. That has been tested. These guys use real science here. They collect data, form plans, carry them out and test the results.
I wanted to point it out because a lot of people are totally unaware of this purposeful persuasion campaign. And, I also thought it indicated Bush's continued deception and contempt for the people who disagree with him.
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2007 : 03:03:28 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Chippewa
...(It didn't work, and was greeting with an enormous shrug - which is a good sign that maybe the country is getting tired and savvy of Bush's Rove-like plotting.)...
Making people aware of the tricks definitely takes away the effectiveness of them.
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2007 : 03:07:22 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Kil
...The written speach says democratic... He changed that on the fly. Or they wrote it out correctly so they could claim it was a gaff...
I'm pretty sure if it was intentional, that the written speech was clearly to hide the act as an error rather than intentional.
I haven't seen the video, only the audio. If HM noticed a facial change when Bush said it, I think experts in body language would say that was evidence of intentional.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2007 : 08:55:30 [Permalink]
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| The written speach was released one or two days before the actual address. Jim Webb, I've heard, was surprised that Bush left out some of the Katrina relief stuff that was in the hardcopy, and so had to change the "Democratic response" in only a few minutes. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Boron10
Religion Moderator
USA
1266 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2007 : 09:18:22 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal:quote:
Originally posted by McQ:
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If HM is correct and there is a facial cue coincident to the use of the word, that is evidence it was purposeful. Don't confuse Bush's total ineptness answering unrehearsed questions with his enunciation giving a rehearsed speech.
I'll give you that; it's entirely possible. quote:
Once he screwed up 'nuclear', I'm sure the Party machine decided to go with it as a country boy, not educated elite, etc etc speaking mannerism. If Bush had changed his pronunciation, it would have been an admission he couldn't even pronounce a common word. By keeping the mis-pronunciation, it gave an image it was just his chosen mannerism rather than his ignorant pronunciation.
I'm sure y'all remember President Carter? He also mispronounced the word "nuclear" in the same manner ("nucular"). He was a Submarine Officer, in the top 10% of his graduating class at the Naval Academy, persued post-graduate work in nuclear physics, and attended Nuclear Power School. quote:
If you don't think the Republicans invest considerable time and effort into this persuasion campaign, you are overlooking a lot of evidence. Look up what the USA Patriot Act stands for. That acronym had to have taken quite an effort.
I agree, the "Patriot Act" is a classic example of manipulative word-smithing. quote:
Read the stuff on Gingrich promoting the positive/negative word campaign. Look into the 'talking points' memos. Why is an escalation in the Iraq war being called a "surge"?
Because that's what it is. A surge. The military definition of a surge is when ships and troops are sent by the President to a place of crisis on short notice.
Here is the first link in a google search for "surge ready." Note that it's a couple years old. quote:
I really wasn't implying the single mis-stated 'Democratic majority' in the speech was expected to have a massive effect. The totality of the positive/negative word campaign certainly is very effective. That has been tested. These guys use real science here. They collect data, form plans, carry them out and test the results.
It's brilliant of them. Perhaps the Democratic Party should adopt this technique? Turn everyday language into marketing. quote:
I wanted to point it out because a lot of people are totally unaware of this purposeful persuasion campaign. And, I also thought it indicated Bush's continued deception and contempt for the people who disagree with him.
Umm.. If a lot of people are "totally unaware," wouldn't that make it an ineffective slur? Don't you think people are getting offended over something so minor as to be insignificant? |
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McQ
Skeptic Friend
USA
258 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2007 : 17:52:42 [Permalink]
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Thanks to all who responded to my lack of comprehension of GW's ability to be so clever. I saw some very good points brought up all around.
Yet I still really struggle and resist giving him the credit for being that verbally adroit. I try to, really I do!
Let me have my illusion of his incompetence. Please!
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Elvis didn't do no drugs!
--Penn Gillette |
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Aerik
New Member
USA
18 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2007 : 19:14:10 [Permalink]
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| Bush is very prone to subliminal messaging. It's called a "dog whistle," when a politician says something that sounds bi-partisan or neutral, but has this super-subtle nuance that really speaks loudly to a certain base that really riles them up, just like a whistle people can't hear but drives dogs nuts. Last year Bush was evading questions about Iraq and said "Don't put a period where God has put a comma," which was a way of sort-of-secretly talking to his fundy base, saying that he'll continue what he believes to be God's mission indefinitely. |
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Mycroft
Skeptic Friend
USA
427 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2007 : 21:09:13 [Permalink]
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Wow, this is embarrassingly petty.
And no, I'm not talking about Bush.
First, there is a strong possibility it was not intentional.
Second, if it was intentional, so what? The right thing to do is take the "high road" and ignore it.
Third, making an issue of it only makes Democrats come across as a whiney cry-babies. There is a reason Mom and Dad didn't care who "started it" and the reason is it doesn't matter.
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2007 : 22:59:53 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Boron10
...Umm.. If a lot of people are "totally unaware," wouldn't that make it an ineffective slur? Don't you think people are getting offended over something so minor as to be insignificant?
No, the idea is an under the radar negative connotation. Actually, in this case I believe the Neocons ( ) were going for a cumulative effect with lots of negative and positive words. Bush's speech has others like 'surge'. Someone else found it on the DOD site but the pdf file crashed my computer twice. I was going to see how common a military term it was. But it's a minor point because a surge implies a short burst and I see no evidence of some short little operation.
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2007 : 23:05:59 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Mycroft
Wow, this is embarrassingly petty.
And no, I'm not talking about Bush.
First, there is a strong possibility it was not intentional.
Second, if it was intentional, so what? The right thing to do is take the "high road" and ignore it.
Third, making an issue of it only makes Democrats come across as a whiney cry-babies. There is a reason Mom and Dad didn't care who "started it" and the reason is it doesn't matter.
You are missing the big picture, My. The point isn't this little example, the point is it implies a very disingenuous claim of reaching out for bipartisanship, and I just wanted to discuss this one of many types of persuasion tactics we are being subjected to daily. Many people, including you apparently, have no idea how much research is going into these tactics and how successful the return on those billions of research dollars is.
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2007 : 23:10:47 [Permalink]
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| Surge ready status and planning is apparently an existing military term. So we'll see if it was appropriately applied in the current escalation in Iraq. The bottom line is going to be which term was more appropriate for the actual action taken. |
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