Skeptic Friends Network

Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?
Home | Forums | Active Topics | Active Polls | Register | FAQ | Contact Us  
  Connect: Chat | SFN Messenger | Buddy List | Members
Personalize: Profile | My Page | Forum Bookmarks  
 All Forums
 Our Skeptic Forums
 Politics
 Subliminal slurs in Bush's speech
 New Topic  Topic Locked
 Printer Friendly Bookmark this Topic BookMark Topic
Previous Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 3

HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 01/27/2007 :  01:17:08   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message
Beskeptigal asked:
quote:
Why is an escalation in the Iraq war being called a "surge"?
Because it makes the war sound like an exciting water-park ride?


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Go to Top of Page

HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 01/27/2007 :  01:25:35   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message
Boron10 wrote
quote:
Because that's what it is. A surge. The military definition of a surge is when ships and troops are sent by the President to a place of crisis on short notice.

Here is the first link in a google search for "surge ready." Note that it's a couple years old.
That just proves the military has been capable of weasel-words to avoid saying "escalation." The Pentagon is famous for weasel language, and is the reigning world champ in the field. They probably tossed out that term right after Vietnam. IMHO, "escalation" is a more objective term, while "surge" seems to be more appropriate for water or a soft drink.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Go to Top of Page

HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 01/27/2007 :  01:33:04   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Mycroft

Wow, this is embarrassingly petty.

And no, I'm not talking about Bush.

First, there is a strong possibility it was not intentional.

Second, if it was intentional, so what? The right thing to do is take the "high road" and ignore it.

Third, making an issue of it only makes Democrats come across as a whiney cry-babies. There is a reason Mom and Dad didn't care who "started it" and the reason is it doesn't matter.




See, most of us are not as sensitive to your kind of baiting on this, and we can take it easier than a politician who might have clout to lose by sounding petty. You can call it petty, I call as I see it, as subtlety. Me sounding petty's no big deal. What am I going to become, more of a lame duck than I am? It's us guys in the trenches who are willing to take up the little issues along with the big. Both types ARE issues, though.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Go to Top of Page

beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 01/27/2007 :  02:06:55   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
Well over at JREF the male versions of Ann Coulter have found the thread. It gets so tiring. No discussion, just ignorant nonsense. It reminds me of flies. You have a picnic and all is well until they find you then they are there until you leave. But it is my fault for using politics or religion as an example of something like persuasion. There are these people who seem to just want to bash people instead of having a conversation.

I shall have to ponder my approach.

Go to Top of Page

Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13470 Posts

Posted - 01/27/2007 :  09:15:22   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal

Well over at JREF the male versions of Ann Coulter have found the thread. It gets so tiring. No discussion, just ignorant nonsense. It reminds me of flies. You have a picnic and all is well until they find you then they are there until you leave. But it is my fault for using politics or religion as an example of something like persuasion. There are these people who seem to just want to bash people instead of having a conversation.

I shall have to ponder my approach.



I have left a reply over there...

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
Go to Top of Page

Boron10
Religion Moderator

USA
1266 Posts

Posted - 01/27/2007 :  17:50:28   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Boron10 a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by beskeptigal:
quote:
Originally posted by Boron10:
...Umm.. If a lot of people are "totally unaware," wouldn't that make it an ineffective slur? Don't you think people are getting offended over something so minor as to be insignificant?
No, the idea is an under the radar negative connotation. Actually, in this case I believe the Neocons () were going for a cumulative effect with lots of negative and positive words.
You are almost certainly right. I had to think more about the idea of removing the word "Democratic" and reassigning the the label "Democrat" to the party, thereby conjuring images of politicians, rather than the democratic ideal. It is a subtle slur, but a slur nonetheless. The unfortunate part is this: with all the outcry about it, the Democratic Party now seems like a bunch of whiners. Seems like a lose-lose situation there. Brilliant move.
quote:
Bush's speech has others like 'surge'. Someone else found it on the DOD site but the pdf file crashed my computer twice. I was going to see how common a military term it was. But it's a minor point because a surge implies a short burst and I see no evidence of some short little operation.
You almost addressed your point in a following post:
quote:
Surge ready status and planning is apparently an existing military term. So we'll see if it was appropriately applied in the current escalation in Iraq. The bottom line is going to be which term was more appropriate for the actual action taken.
The action that is now in progress is a surge. It may also be an escalation; the words describe different aspects of a military operation.

And, finally:
quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner:
That just proves the military has been capable of weasel-words to avoid saying "escalation." The Pentagon is famous for weasel language, and is the reigning world champ in the field. They probably tossed out that term right after Vietnam. IMHO, "escalation" is a more objective term, while "surge" seems to be more appropriate for water or a soft drink.
I believe I have addressed this point above. A surge describes what happens to the ships and troops. An escalation describes what happens to the area of conflict.
Go to Top of Page

byhisgrace88
Formerly "creation88"

USA
166 Posts

Posted - 01/27/2007 :  19:39:58   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send byhisgrace88 an AOL message Send byhisgrace88 a Private Message
I realize the Bush speech this is kind of over. But whether he tried to do it or not, it is no different than everyone insisting on calling people from the pro-life camp "anti-abortion".

Indeed, if we consider the unblushing promises of reward and the staggering nature of the rewards promised in the Gospels, it would seem that Our Lord finds our desire, not too strong, but too weak. We are half-hearted creatures, fooling about with drink and sex and ambition when infinite joy is offered us, like an ignorant child who wants to go on making mud pies in a slum because he cannot imagine what is meant by the offer of a holiday at the sea. We are far too easily pleased.-- C.S. Lewis
Go to Top of Page

Boron10
Religion Moderator

USA
1266 Posts

Posted - 01/27/2007 :  20:46:11   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Boron10 a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by byhisgrace88:
I realize the Bush speech this is kind of over. But whether he tried to do it or not, it is no different than everyone insisting on calling people from the pro-life camp "anti-abortion".
But isn't that the actual platform? Please explain to me how "pro-life" is a more accurate label. I say it's a misnomer: how many "pro-life" people support the death penalty? I'd wager a strong percentage.

Anyway, what about "pro-choice" versus "pro-abortion?" Nobody actually advocates abortion (ok, maybe a few isolated psychos), people just feel that a woman deserves the right to choose what happens to her body; that includes preserving the option of abortion.
Go to Top of Page

beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 01/27/2007 :  22:44:51   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
At first I was going to say pro-life and anti-abortion were equally accurate but you made good points, B10.

Most people have caught on to the "Name your side" as I called it on my TAM presentation slide. Tax cut vs tax relief, death tax vs estate tax vs the Paris Hilton benefits tax and so on. I think fewer people are as aware of the more subtle stuff.

Go to Top of Page
Page: of 3 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Previous Page
 New Topic  Topic Locked
 Printer Friendly Bookmark this Topic BookMark Topic
Jump To:

The mission of the Skeptic Friends Network is to promote skepticism, critical thinking, science and logic as the best methods for evaluating all claims of fact, and we invite active participation by our members to create a skeptical community with a wide variety of viewpoints and expertise.


Home | Skeptic Forums | Skeptic Summary | The Kil Report | Creation/Evolution | Rationally Speaking | Skeptillaneous | About Skepticism | Fan Mail | Claims List | Calendar & Events | Skeptic Links | Book Reviews | Gift Shop | SFN on Facebook | Staff | Contact Us

Skeptic Friends Network
© 2008 Skeptic Friends Network Go To Top Of Page
This page was generated in 0.17 seconds.
Powered by @tomic Studio
Snitz Forums 2000