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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25973 Posts

Posted - 02/11/2007 :  19:38:24   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dude

I think its ammusing to see how some of you here treat the idea of libertarianism the same way some republicans treat liberals.
I hope it's clear from my writings that I consider libertarianism, conservatism and liberalism with equal disdain, at least as far as all three are offered in the U.S. today.

I was only half joking, years ago, when I suggested that Kil run for President from within a brand-new "Critical Thought Party." And he said he'd do it, too, so long as I'd be there as his speechwriter. So how's that exploratory committee coming, Kil?

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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JohnOAS
SFN Regular

Australia
800 Posts

Posted - 02/11/2007 :  20:04:38   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit JohnOAS's Homepage Send JohnOAS a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.

I was only half joking, years ago, when I suggested that Kil run for President from within a brand-new "Critical Thought Party." And he said he'd do it, too, so long as I'd be there as his speechwriter. So how's that exploratory committee coming, Kil?



Doesn't the USA have some (perhaps unwritten) law that would pretty much ruin your campaign as soon as you were confronted with the probing question:

"So, do you believe God?"

or words to that effect. Or is this just an awareness campaign?



John's just this guy, you know.
Edited by - JohnOAS on 02/11/2007 20:05:40
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25973 Posts

Posted - 02/11/2007 :  20:27:44   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
Yes, it's highly unlikely an atheist could be President in the currect atmosphere here, but that's beside the point. We have to start our work now, so that Kil can actually get elected when he's... oh... a hundred and forty seven years old or so (modern medicine is great, ain't it?). But we won't get any Federal money until we get 5% of the vote, so we've gotta get the ball rolling.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Neurosis
SFN Regular

USA
675 Posts

Posted - 02/11/2007 :  23:16:06   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Neurosis an AOL message Send Neurosis a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.

Yes, it's highly unlikely an atheist could be President in the currect atmosphere here, but that's beside the point. We have to start our work now, so that Kil can actually get elected when he's... oh... a hundred and forty seven years old or so (modern medicine is great, ain't it?). But we won't get any Federal money until we get 5% of the vote, so we've gotta get the ball rolling.



I think I saw this process outlined in an episode of Futurama. Perhaps I'll distill it and present it before the Committee to Elect Kil as a Rational Alternative, in a few months (giving you guys plenty of time to form such a commitee).

Facts! Pssh, you can prove anything even remotely true with facts.
- Homer Simpson

[God] is an infinite nothing from nowhere with less power over our universe than the secretary of agriculture.
- Prof. Frink

Lisa: Yes, but wouldn't you rather know the truth than to delude yourself for happiness?
Marge: Well... um.... [goes outside to jump on tampoline with Homer.]
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard

USA
3739 Posts

Posted - 02/12/2007 :  17:30:55   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit marfknox's Homepage  Send marfknox an AOL message Send marfknox a Private Message
Dude wrote:
quote:
It is a mistake to think that Libertarians don't have anything to contribute to the political discourse. I think its ammusing to see how some of you here treat the idea of libertarianism the same way some republicans treat liberals.
Who here said that Libertarians don't have anything to contribute to the political discourse? I remember criticizing the purist capitalism part of the Libertarian political ideology, and I recall beskeptical doing the same thing. Of course real individuals who label themselves Libertarian can vary a great deal, and most individuals who bother learning and thinking about politics at all have something valuable to contribute.

Extreme devotion to purist capitalism - which admittedly only a minority of self-declared Libertarians possess - should be treated with disdain.

"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong

Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com

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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13457 Posts

Posted - 02/12/2007 :  18:48:22   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Neurosis

quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.

Yes, it's highly unlikely an atheist could be President in the currect atmosphere here, but that's beside the point. We have to start our work now, so that Kil can actually get elected when he's... oh... a hundred and forty seven years old or so (modern medicine is great, ain't it?). But we won't get any Federal money until we get 5% of the vote, so we've gotta get the ball rolling.



I think I saw this process outlined in an episode of Futurama. Perhaps I'll distill it and present it before the Committee to Elect Kil as a Rational Alternative, in a few months (giving you guys plenty of time to form such a commitee).

Another plus is I can prove that I am sane because they let me go… How many candidates can make that claim?

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25973 Posts

Posted - 02/12/2007 :  19:10:22   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message
You know what? I think we can do it. We successfully raised over $750 for Kil's trip to TAM. I'm sure we can raise the "magical $100,000,000" by the end of 2007.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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JohnOAS
SFN Regular

Australia
800 Posts

Posted - 02/12/2007 :  21:07:40   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit JohnOAS's Homepage Send JohnOAS a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.

Yes, it's highly unlikely an atheist could be President in the currect atmosphere here, but that's beside the point. We have to start our work now, so that Kil can actually get elected when he's... oh... a hundred and forty seven years old or so (modern medicine is great, ain't it?). But we won't get any Federal money until we get 5% of the vote, so we've gotta get the ball rolling.


Sounds perfectly reasonable to me. You can have my vote.

Of course, being a non resident of the USA, my vote is worth slightly less than half of bugger all.


John's just this guy, you know.
Edited by - JohnOAS on 02/12/2007 21:08:39
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2007 :  01:40:48   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dude

It is a mistake to think that Libertarians don't have anything to contribute to the political discourse. I think its ammusing to see how some of you here treat the idea of libertarianism the same way some republicans treat liberals.



I'm waiting for those answers to my questions, Dude. I think I pointed out what I see as some basic flaws in the philosophy the free market will take care of everything. I read their party platform in the last presidential election and frankly thought it was completely unrealistic. When I asked some Libertarians on another forum to defend the platform, they whined that it wasn't meant to be the actual goals, just a direction. That seemed like pretty strong evidence they were backing a fantasy of what they pictured as a carefree society, no government interference, no taxes. But when asked to actually explain how it would work, they couldn't.

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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2007 :  01:44:08   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.

quote:
Originally posted by Dude

I think its ammusing to see how some of you here treat the idea of libertarianism the same way some republicans treat liberals.
I hope it's clear from my writings that I consider libertarianism, conservatism and liberalism with equal disdain, at least as far as all three are offered in the U.S. today.

I was only half joking, years ago, when I suggested that Kil run for President from within a brand-new "Critical Thought Party." And he said he'd do it, too, so long as I'd be there as his speechwriter. So how's that exploratory committee coming, Kil?

Now a Critical Thought Party is my fantasy. And I think if it could be accomplished, it would work quite well.

I don't find the Democratic Party to be anything close to ideal, but currently I certainly don't have disdain for it like I do for the Republican Theocracy Party.


Edited by - beskeptigal on 02/14/2007 01:46:05
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard

USA
3739 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2007 :  18:38:37   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit marfknox's Homepage  Send marfknox an AOL message Send marfknox a Private Message
beskeptical wrote:
quote:
Now a Critical Thought Party is my fantasy.
Ugh, not mine! Fuckin' politics would just corrupt and ruin critical thought's reputation.

"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong

Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com

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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13457 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2007 :  19:01:09   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by marfknox

beskeptical wrote:
quote:
Now a Critical Thought Party is my fantasy.
Ugh, not mine! Fuckin' politics would just corrupt and ruin critical thought's reputation.

I agree.

And if elected, I promise not to think critically...

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4954 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2007 :  19:16:53   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by marfknox

beskeptical wrote:
quote:
Now a Critical Thought Party is my fantasy.
Ugh, not mine! Fuckin' politics would just corrupt and ruin critical thought's reputation.

What?!? My prostitute-filled bought-with-bribes lobbyist headquarters in DC would most certainly not be corrupt!!
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 02/15/2007 :  14:01:36   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message
beskeptigal said:
quote:
I'm waiting for those answers to my questions, Dude. I think I pointed out what I see as some basic flaws in the philosophy the free market will take care of everything. I read their party platform in the last presidential election and frankly thought it was completely unrealistic. When I asked some Libertarians on another forum to defend the platform, they whined that it wasn't meant to be the actual goals, just a direction. That seemed like pretty strong evidence they were backing a fantasy of what they pictured as a carefree society, no government interference, no taxes. But when asked to actually explain how it would work, they couldn't.



So what?

I'm not sure how you can go from me saying that it is a mistake to think libertarians don't have anything to contribute to you asking me to defend their position on economics.

You are going to be waiting a long time, it seems.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 02/16/2007 :  14:28:41   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message
Well you were the one that seemed to be promoting Libertarians, Dude. If you weren't then don't answer the questions. At TAM5 by a show of hands Libertarians in the audience were in the majority. I assume by the poll here there are some on the SFN forum. I'd like to hear any of them defend their belief in the Libertarian Party line.

As for my fantasy Critical Thought Party, in my fantasy they don't fall into the corrupt milieu, Marf.
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