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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 02/08/2002 : 16:03:03
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...and goes after troubled souls.
Read it here
Probably this should have gone into Religon, but it looks more like a scam to me.
f
"They will take away my Darwin Fish only when they pry it from my cold, dead bumper!"
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Marc_a_b
Skeptic Friend
USA
142 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2002 : 16:20:42 [Permalink]
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It's $cientology, therefore it is a scam masquerading as religion.
In the words of Mark Bunker, LRH was a tubby lunatic charlitan.
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Lars_H
SFN Regular
Germany
630 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2002 : 17:23:31 [Permalink]
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quote:
It's $cientology, therefore it is a scam masquerading as religion.
As oposed to all those other organized Religions?
But seriously, the timing of this ad campaing seems to suggest that the people making the decisions are not very flexible or fast. All the other assholes have cashed in on September 11th months ago. They are a bit late.
I think we all know what we have to think of their assurance that this is not a recruitment attempt.
That mental health professionals look at this development with concern won't make much of a diffrence either. Isn't it their official church doctrine that all psychaters are evil?
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Marc_a_b
Skeptic Friend
USA
142 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2002 : 17:47:32 [Permalink]
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quote:
As oposed to all those other organized Religions?
But at least the people who set up other religions actualy believed in their spiritual claims. Dianetics started as an alternative mental health therapy. The book was titled Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health
From The Creation of Human Ability, L. Ron Hubbard, 1953
quote:
Scientology has opened the gates to a better World. It is not a
psycho-therapy nor a religion. It is a body of knowledge which, when
properly used, gives freedom and truth to the individual.
This quote has been removed from that book in later printings. In a 1953 letter he discusses marketing strategies for Scientology, including a 'religion angle'. In 1962 a policy letter was sent out to all orgs (back then they were called franchises) stating the change in policy:
quote:
Scientology 1970 is being planned on a religious organization basis throughout the world.
This will not upset in any way the usual activities of any organization. is entirely a matter for accountants and solicitors.
HCO PL October 29, 1962, RELIGION
They may have been slow with the billboards, but they were actualy pretty quick with everything else. Right after the disaster they flooded NY with 'volunteer ministers', encouraging as many people to go as they could, and start printing a lot of promotional materials, Way To Happiness pamphlets, and the like. I can look up copies of some of the e-mails they sent out if you like.
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Tokyodreamer
SFN Regular
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2002 : 22:18:48 [Permalink]
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quote:
But at least the people who set up other religions actualy believed in their spiritual claims. Dianetics started as an alternative mental health therapy.
Actually, Dianetics most likely began as a scam, with no intention of helping anyone, mentally or otherwise:
quote:
At the time, I was friendly with the late Theodore Sturgeon, a distinguished science-fiction writer whose work I admired. Ted knew Hubbard fairly well, and told me that at a sci-fi convention the previous year Hubbard had told him and several other writers something like this: "You guys just wait. I've thought up a racket that's going to make me very rich. You'll hear about it in a few months."
from http://www.skepdic.com/comments/dianeticcom.html
the reader comments section of http://www.skepdic.com/dianetic.html
Of course, this could be inaccurate, but I wouldn't be at all surprised...
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Sum Ergo Cogito |
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ktesibios
SFN Regular
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2002 : 20:48:23 [Permalink]
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quote:
Actually, Dianetics most likely began as a scam, with no intention of helping anyone, mentally or otherwise:
quote:
At the time, I was friendly with the late Theodore Sturgeon, a distinguished science-fiction writer whose work I admired. Ted knew Hubbard fairly well, and told me that at a sci-fi convention the previous year Hubbard had told him and several other writers something like this: "You guys just wait. I've thought up a racket that's going to make me very rich. You'll hear about it in a few months."
There's also a story which has Hubbard telling some fellow sci-fi writers that they're all idiots for knocking themselves out for a penny per word when the way to get rich is to invent a new religion.
That also might be apocryphal, but if you want to get a bit of insight into Hubbard's attitude from his fiction, dig up a story called "Battling Bolto", which appeared in Thrilling Wonder Stories.
It's been nearly two decades since I ran across it in a friend's pulp magazine collection, so my memory of the details is very foggy, (I remember that it involved a man masquerading as a boxing robot) but I clearly recall the way I felt after reading it.
I thought "Wow, this guy really thinks like a con man".
Boris Karloff died for your sins. |
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Lars_H
SFN Regular
Germany
630 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2002 : 21:09:31 [Permalink]
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There are all kinds of myths and urban legends surrounding the creation of Scientology. The one about it coming out of a bet with Heinlein being the most popular. Sometimes as a twist it is added that Hubbard wanted to reveal his hoax before his death and was helped along as a result.
As a sceptic I have to note with regret that there a to many different versions of this and not enough evidence to prove any of them.
There is no doubt in my mind that LRH never believed in his 'religion' himself, but don't think he announced his con-job beforehand.
As for comparing his creation to established religions:
Today nobody can tell if the writers of the evangelium believed in the stuff they wrote themselves and wether Jesus actually lived. There is enough similarity between the events as presented in the new testament and prior pagan religious lore to indicate its writers at least knowingly enhanced the tales somewhat to make it more acceptable for their target audience. It is similar with most complex religions.
I say lets give Scientolgy a few centuries and you won't be able to tell much difference between them and other religions.
They might commit some holy wars, witchhunts, ursurpings of political power and a bit of general genocide but that too is not uncommen for developing religions before they settle down and become civilized.
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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2002 : 22:28:05 [Permalink]
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quote:
There are all kinds of myths and urban legends surrounding the creation of Scientology. The one about it coming out of a bet with Heinlein being the most popular.
Not an actual money bet but not an urban legend either.
Isaac Asimov told me, over drinks one night, that it was he that suggested it to Hubbard as a joke. But L. Ron took the idea and ran with it.
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The brain that was stolen from my laboratory was a criminal brain. Only evil will come from it. |
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The Rat
SFN Regular
Canada
1370 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2002 : 22:46:11 [Permalink]
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quote:
I say lets give Scientolgy a few centuries and you won't be able to tell much difference between them and other religions.
They may have nowhere near that long. Just last night I attended our monthly meeting of the Ontario Skeptics Society for Critical Inquiry, and our guest speaker was none other than Keith Henson, well known Scientology baiter. The 'church' claims to have upwards of 8 million members worldwide. By Mr. Henson's estimation the figure is more like about 55,000. There were once seven scientology centres here in Ontario, there are now two.
I think the only question now is; will they go out with a bang or a whimper?
Free speech; excercise it or SHUT UP! |
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Marc_a_b
Skeptic Friend
USA
142 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2002 : 06:27:11 [Permalink]
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You got to see Keith Henson? Cool!
The birth of the internet was the beginning of the end for Co$. They depended on secrecy and controll of information. Thanks to the internet most of their secrets are easily available, former members have been able to get togeather and compare notes, share information, help in court cases, and expose questionable or illegal activities.
Bang or whimper? That's hard. As it is, because of all the information out there, many of the people left are either the most controlled or the most fanatical. As they wither away that trend will most likely continue. I guess that depends on Miscavage, will he take the money and run when the game is up, or stand his ground and self destruct.
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2002 : 09:56:21 [Permalink]
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Speaking of Scientology, you should get a load of Hubbard's version of creation on this site at: http://216.119.101.244/dawnscireview.asp It's very funny.
The Evil Skeptic
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2002 : 10:20:49 [Permalink]
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Great Googley Moogley!!!
I am not so amazed that this total crap is put forth as True Faith. After all it's only a little more preposterous than most other religons. What I find staggering is that anyone with an education beyond the third grade might actually believe it.
I fear for the future of our species. We are far too easily brain-washed.
f
"They will take away my Darwin Fish only when they pry it from my cold, dead bumper!" |
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Marc_a_b
Skeptic Friend
USA
142 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2002 : 10:53:50 [Permalink]
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quote:
"They will take away my Darwin Fish only when they pry it from my cold, dead bumper!"
Hmm.... as it is winter I would take it your bumper can get to be pretty cold, especialy at night. I'm willing to bet your bumper also does not have a pulse, nor detectable brain activity... So can I have your Darwin Fish? 
personaly though, I think I'd prefer a nice Cthulhu fish
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Xev
Skeptic Friend
USA
329 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2002 : 12:18:53 [Permalink]
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quote:
I say lets give Scientolgy a few centuries and you won't be able to tell much difference between them and other religions.
They might commit some holy wars, witchhunts, ursurpings of political power and a bit of general genocide but that too is not uncommen for developing religions before they settle down and become civilized.
Burning skeptics at the stake?
Over my charred corpse. It ain't going nowhere.
Xev -Ad astra!- Bellringer |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2002 : 14:35:27 [Permalink]
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"Hmm.... as it is winter I would take it your bumper can get to be pretty cold, especialy at night. I'm willing to bet your bumper also does not have a pulse, nor detectable brain activity... So can I have your Darwin Fish?
Well, I'm not quite done with it yet, but if you don't mind waiting, I shouldn't need it in another decade or so. Or the bumper, either, for that matter. Then, you can then have both.
f
"They will take away my Darwin Fish only when they pry it from my cold, dead bumper!" |
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Lars_H
SFN Regular
Germany
630 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2002 : 15:53:49 [Permalink]
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quote:
The birth of the internet was the beginning of the end for Co$. They depended on secrecy and controll of information.
I don't know True Believers never seem inclined in actually accessing any information contrary to their faith. You already have to have doubts to seek out information.
The Catholic Church survived just fine the invention of the printing press and the translation of the Bible in languages the followers could actually understand.
quote:
Bang or whimper? That's hard. As it is, because of all the information out there, many of the people left are either the most controlled or the most fanatical. As they wither away that trend will most likely continue. I guess that depends on Miscavage, will he take the money and run when the game is up, or stand his ground and self destruct.
Those things tend to develope a live of their own. I recall a group of Ex-Scientology members who kept their faith after they left the church and founded a religion of their own based on Scientologys teachings.
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