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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
 Posted - 06/25/2008 : 06:55:47 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf
Simon, I find your use of the term Smurf-bag most offensive. The NAABCP will be hearing about this!
Hint the B is for blue.
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I apologize from the bottom of my heart.
Is it okay if I call him a mother-smurfer?
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Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2008 : 07:41:29 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by tomk80
Uncommonly dense now also needed to chime in. |
And Dembski doesn't disappoint. But all he's focused on is "Lenski's seething contempt."| And DaveScot has a new buzzword it seems: "chance worshippers". |
He's used that in the past, he's just becoming more friendly towards it. And he seems to be assuming that nobody is interested in replicating Lenski's results, and then using that assumption as evidence that Lenski's results aren't interesting. Idiot. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2008 : 10:06:18 [Permalink]
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Attacks of character; bad faith and misrepresentation to hide the weakness of their science.
Quite typical, indeed, but that really annoys me each time. |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2008 : 10:34:08 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by tomk80
Uncommonly dense now also needed to chime in. |
And Dembski doesn't disappoint. But all he's focused on is "Lenski's seething contempt."| And DaveScot has a new buzzword it seems: "chance worshippers". |
He's used that in the past, he's just becoming more friendly towards it. And he seems to be assuming that nobody is interested in replicating Lenski's results, and then using that assumption as evidence that Lenski's results aren't interesting. Idiot.
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Andy & Conservapedia are about to get pretty much the same scientific ass-kicking that Dembski & Intelligent Design have been on the recieving end of for quite a while. It is said that misery enjoys company, so I expect the two to become closer than ever.
I wonder if Dembski and/or his minions are stupid enough to use it for reference. Come to think of it, I don't recall ever seeing that happen, which is something of a comment on the site.
As for "Lenski's seething contempt," it is richly deserved. Just who the hell does this Andy punk think he is?
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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tomk80
SFN Regular
Netherlands
1278 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2008 : 12:58:05 [Permalink]
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And now Davescot chimed in again.
One thing is very clear. Creationists really don't like these results. |
Tom
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll- |
| Edited by - tomk80 on 06/25/2008 13:01:49 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 06/25/2008 : 13:13:00 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by tomk80
And now Davescot chimed in again.
One thing is very clear. Creationists really don't like these results.
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That is patently pathetic. And I gotta feeling that they'll soon begin to like them even less as peer review adds confirmation.
When will the Discovery Institute, or any creationist hootenanny, mount a similiar study? They claim to have the inside skinny on this evolution stuff, so one would think that they would publish somewhere other than Uncommon Deciet, and do it often.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2008 : 13:43:45 [Permalink]
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Yup. Standard foolish misunderstanding of the word "random" followed by ad hominem attacks based upon that misunderstanding.
If I were to misunderstand the word "Texas" to mean "pus-filled boil" and start making fun of DaveScot because I heard "DaveScot lives in Texas," I wonder what he would think about it...| One thing is very clear. Creationists really don't like these results. |
And their arms must be very tired indeed from grasping at these far-away and tiny straws. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2008 : 14:10:47 [Permalink]
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Which is particularly surprising to me as the part of these results that annoy them so much (bacteria evolving through random mutations) have been demonstrated some 65 years ago.
Now, there knowledge of science might be six decades late, that would explain quite a bit. |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2008 : 14:17:44 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Simon
Now, there knowledge of science might be six decades late, that would explain quite a bit. |
It's more like six centuries late, and they refuse to advance. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2008 : 06:31:28 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
New Scientist has a nice, short summary of the "Lenski Affair."
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Excellent article, although I reccommend that the whole thing be read at Rationalwiki (link in Dave's OP).
I am loving every minute of this! It it so nice to have something new to rub creationist noses in. I mean, we got lots of stuff for that already, but this is alive & thriving in Dr. Lenski's lab for all to see, step by evolutionary step, from beginning to, well, the current end. I'm sure that, given time and conditions, it can go much further.
"Goo to you via the zoo?" Sure, why not?
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2008 : 20:58:10 [Permalink]
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I have read some about the long-term e. coli study a while back. This is a pretty big deal.
I have to say that I like Lenski's style. As an interesting aside... he let his grad student have primary investigator status on this paper (first author listed). That is very cool.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2008 : 21:01:55 [Permalink]
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Oh yeah... Lenski's letter made me think of this:
(or click this link:)CLICK!
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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| Edited by - Dude on 06/26/2008 21:05:25 |
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tomk80
SFN Regular
Netherlands
1278 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2008 : 01:21:09 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dude
I have read some about the long-term e. coli study a while back. This is a pretty big deal.
I have to say that I like Lenski's style. As an interesting aside... he let his grad student have primary investigator status on this paper (first author listed). That is very cool.
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This is actually common in biomedical research. The two "most important" people on the article are the one at the beginning and the one at the end. The first author usually did most of the work and wrote the paper (for example a phd student). The last author often is the principal investigator. |
Tom
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll- |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2008 : 03:28:23 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dude
Oh yeah... Lenski's letter made me think of this:
(or click this link:)CLICK!
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Heh, indeed! Gave me a chuckle, that did.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Dr. Lenski is awesome!
