Skeptic Friends Network

Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?
Home | Forums | Active Topics | Active Polls | Register | FAQ | Contact Us  
  Connect: Chat | SFN Messenger | Buddy List | Members
Personalize: Profile | My Page | Forum Bookmarks  
 All Forums
 Our Skeptic Forums
 Politics
 The Anthrax Guy
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly Bookmark this Topic BookMark Topic
Previous Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 2

filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 08/14/2008 :  10:25:13   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by chaloobi

A few thoughts:

#1. I hope they did a very thorough autopsy on Ivins to rule out murder.

#2. Conspiracy theorists are going to make hay out of this for decades.
Yeah buddy! They'll have a ball with this one because it is such a natural for way-out speculations. I myself, have a few -- which I'll keep to myself for the nonce.

If it were any administration except Bush's....




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

Go to Top of Page

BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 08/14/2008 :  12:17:12   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So why would they assume the hair isnt from one of the other people who used the mailbox? Hardly seems newsworthy to me, like saying "No blue mailbox paint was found under his fingernails"

"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini
Go to Top of Page

Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 08/14/2008 :  12:27:53   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yeah, the hair in the mailbox thing.... WTF?

Are we talking about a public mailbox? The kind where hundreds of people drop mail into every day? If so, the person who thought they could collect "evidence" from it that would be useful in making a case against this guy needs to be FIRED.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
Go to Top of Page

filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 08/14/2008 :  12:35:14   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I believe that's called "grasping at straws" and hoping to find one heavy enough to "break the camel's back." When you have nothing and still want to justify your paycheck, that's what you do. Mostly, it doesn't work.




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

Go to Top of Page

chaloobi
SFN Regular

1620 Posts

Posted - 08/14/2008 :  12:40:38   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send chaloobi a Yahoo! Message Send chaloobi a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf

So why would they assume the hair isnt from one of the other people who used the mailbox? Hardly seems newsworthy to me, like saying "No blue mailbox paint was found under his fingernails"
This is a public mailbox we're talking about? I assumed it was a post office box.

-Chaloobi

Go to Top of Page

filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 08/14/2008 :  15:52:11   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by chaloobi

Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf

So why would they assume the hair isnt from one of the other people who used the mailbox? Hardly seems newsworthy to me, like saying "No blue mailbox paint was found under his fingernails"
This is a public mailbox we're talking about? I assumed it was a post office box.
A PO box only recieves mail that must be picked up by the box renter. You can't send through it. It must have been a public box and, as stated by others, mere hair in one would not be conclusive proof of much of anything beyond that the guy used that particular box at one time or another. IF they had found his hair among all the rest that might be in there. Which, evidently, they didn't. I really don't see what they have on the guy beyond that he worked with that particular strain of anthrax, mentally ill or not.

Innocent until proven guilty......




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

Go to Top of Page

Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 08/14/2008 :  16:32:55   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message  Reply with Quote
In our society today you are only innocent until accused!


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
Go to Top of Page

chaloobi
SFN Regular

1620 Posts

Posted - 08/14/2008 :  18:59:18   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send chaloobi a Yahoo! Message Send chaloobi a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by filthy

Originally posted by chaloobi

Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf

So why would they assume the hair isnt from one of the other people who used the mailbox? Hardly seems newsworthy to me, like saying "No blue mailbox paint was found under his fingernails"
This is a public mailbox we're talking about? I assumed it was a post office box.
A PO box only recieves mail that must be picked up by the box renter. You can't send through it. It must have been a public box and, as stated by others, mere hair in one would not be conclusive proof of much of anything beyond that the guy used that particular box at one time or another. IF they had found his hair among all the rest that might be in there. Which, evidently, they didn't. I really don't see what they have on the guy beyond that he worked with that particular strain of anthrax, mentally ill or not.

Innocent until proven guilty......


I can't think of how I might leave hair in a public mail box....

-Chaloobi

Go to Top of Page

chaloobi
SFN Regular

1620 Posts

Posted - 08/14/2008 :  19:00:21   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send chaloobi a Yahoo! Message Send chaloobi a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dude

In our society today you are only innocent until accused!


Tell that to O.J.

-Chaloobi

Go to Top of Page

Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 08/14/2008 :  20:01:16   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message  Reply with Quote
What I mean is, there is no presumption of innocence.

If a person is accused of wrongdoing, they are proclaimed guilty. You then have to prove innocence, as opposed to the accuser proving guilt.

Hell, maybe its always been this way, I dunno. Its not right though.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
Go to Top of Page

filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 08/15/2008 :  02:32:33   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I can't think of how I might leave hair in a public mail box....
Yeah, I kind'a wonder about that. But we shed hair all the time and I suppose a strand or so might ride in on an envelope. Or something -- our current DOJ being what it is, the hair could have had help. But that suspicion leaves open the question of if it were planted, why not plant one of Ivins' hairs? Then you'd have a dead cert. As it stands, what we have is a dead researcher and a case that looks to be getting weaker by the day. I dunno....




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

Go to Top of Page

chaloobi
SFN Regular

1620 Posts

Posted - 08/15/2008 :  04:44:13   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send chaloobi a Yahoo! Message Send chaloobi a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by filthy

I can't think of how I might leave hair in a public mail box....
Yeah, I kind'a wonder about that. But we shed hair all the time and I suppose a strand or so might ride in on an envelope. Or something -- our current DOJ being what it is, the hair could have had help. But that suspicion leaves open the question of if it were planted, why not plant one of Ivins' hairs? Then you'd have a dead cert. As it stands, what we have is a dead researcher and a case that looks to be getting weaker by the day. I dunno....




I have visions of this 3 inch layer of hair accumulating over the years in the bottom of every public mail box....

-Chaloobi

Go to Top of Page

chaloobi
SFN Regular

1620 Posts

Posted - 08/15/2008 :  04:45:45   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send chaloobi a Yahoo! Message Send chaloobi a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dude

What I mean is, there is no presumption of innocence.

If a person is accused of wrongdoing, they are proclaimed guilty. You then have to prove innocence, as opposed to the accuser proving guilt.

Hell, maybe its always been this way, I dunno. Its not right though.


Yeah, I assumed OJ was guilty right from the white bronco chase... And despite the verdict, I'm pretty sure he killed those two.

-Chaloobi

Go to Top of Page

Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 08/18/2008 :  21:50:28   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message  Reply with Quote
New article:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26279202/


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
Go to Top of Page

filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 08/21/2008 :  07:29:36   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Has the FBI screwed it up again? Yeah, probably. Indeed, they're gaining a reputation for incompetence and outright knavery second only to the Bush Administration itself.

"August 8, 2008. Shortly after it was announced that Steven Hatfill would be paid $5.8 million of our money for having his life ruined by the U.S. Department of Justice, the FBI announced that it now knew who the real murderer was, but he wouldn't be going to trial either. The suspect had committed suicide. Case closed.

Obviously, Bruce Ivins couldn't face the humiliation of a trial and conviction in the face of overwhelming evidence. He took the easy way out and avoided being held in prison for years while waiting for his date with the executioner. Or did the FBI hound the man to his death because it didn't have a very good case? I don't know, but I do know that the FBI does not have a very good track record in recent years when it comes to investigating and prosecuting high profile crimes.

This is an agency that puts its faith in pseudoscientific gadgets like the polygraph (don't call it a lie detector) and pseudoscientific techniques like criminal profiling.

The FBI can't even be trusted with DNA testing. Remember FBI analyst, Jacqueline Blake who falsified statements about following protocol in over 100 DNA analysis reports? She dumped extraction blanks that "might have contained contaminating DNA before sending the samples through the computer-operated genetic analyzer that typed the DNA." Her misconduct "could have been detected by close examination of the electronic files produced by the genetic analyzer," but no one checked. Hence, “Blake's record of contamination-free testing for more than two years did not receive scrutiny.”* An FBI press release assured us that all is well with DNA testing. Yes, and we should be assured that there is nothing wrong with their labs that test fingerprints, bullets for lead, bomb squads, etc. It's not very reassuring when we all know what happens to whistleblowers like Frederic Whitehurst who go public about the abuse of forensic science by the FBI: they are not welcome, to put it mildly.

So, excuse me if I'm skeptical when the FBI says it has the goods on somebody. Remember Richard Jewell? Brandon Mayfield? Wen Ho Lee? Remember how these sleuths handled the Ted Kaczynski and the Cary Stayner cases?
"

It's looking like the long & short of it is that these clowns had doodly-squat on Ivins. I've read that the idiots even went so far as to destroy the Anthrax sample they claimed was Ivins', thus eliminating evidence in what can only be described a still-open case in spite of lofty statements to the contrary.




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

Go to Top of Page
Page: of 2 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Previous Page
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly Bookmark this Topic BookMark Topic
Jump To:

The mission of the Skeptic Friends Network is to promote skepticism, critical thinking, science and logic as the best methods for evaluating all claims of fact, and we invite active participation by our members to create a skeptical community with a wide variety of viewpoints and expertise.


Home | Skeptic Forums | Skeptic Summary | The Kil Report | Creation/Evolution | Rationally Speaking | Skeptillaneous | About Skepticism | Fan Mail | Claims List | Calendar & Events | Skeptic Links | Book Reviews | Gift Shop | SFN on Facebook | Staff | Contact Us

Skeptic Friends Network
© 2008 Skeptic Friends Network Go To Top Of Page
This page was generated in 0.36 seconds.
Powered by @tomic Studio
Snitz Forums 2000