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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
 Posted - 10/05/2008 : 10:21:32 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by calebjones1234
The fact that I do present such evidence is why I will soon be banned. |
Wrong!
It's when you accuse Moderators and Administrators of being unfair you run the risk of getting banned. And when you fail to play by the rules laid out for you.
The rules you have to abide is one of presenting evidence for your claims. Part of that includes you provide a link to your source so that we may examine the veracity of your claim. (You did so in this post, which is good. Now we can debate the veracity of your source of information.) It works just like in science: You propose a claim, and provide evidence that verifies your claim. You own the claim. After that, it's your duty to defend your claim when we challenge it. If you successfully defend your claim, proving it holds water, then you will find that we'll change our minds.
With the above laid out for you in no uncertain terms, you have to understand that when you demand we perform what is your duty: to find the backing evidence, you are insulting us. To write "Google William Ayers and the interview he gave that was published Sept. 11, 2001." is disrespecting us, and tells us you are either ignorant of what it means to support your claim, or you're just trolling.
Some people like to live in fantasy land only looking at information which confirms their world-view and ignoring those facts which do not. |
You break the rules by not providing evidence to controversial (or indeed any) claims, then you accuse people of living in fantasy land when they refuse to oblige you. That's highly insulting and it's that kind of behaviour that is going to get you banned. Unless you clean up your act.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2008 : 11:08:06 [Permalink]
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Here is what the Washington Post as to say about the connection:
| The only hard facts that have come out so far are the $200 contribution by Ayers to the Obama re-election fund, and their joint membership of the eight-person Woods Fund Board. Ayers did not respond to e-mails and telephone calls requesting clarification of the relationship. Obama spokesman Bill Burton noted in a statement that Ayers was a professor of education at the University of Illinois and a former aide to Mayor Richard M. Daley (...) |
So... Obama accepted to chair on the board of a philanthropic association alongside an academic and Chicago official and six other members.
That's nothing.
It is another gamble from McCain and co. They are loosing and launch yet another Hail Maria.
Depending on how the media cover it; if they pick it up at a juicy story or state it as how it is a desperate diversion from the economical issue; I expect the Reps to be punished for it. |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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Chippewa
SFN Regular
USA
1496 Posts |
 Posted - 10/05/2008 : 11:55:22 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by calebjones1234
...Some people like to live in fantasy land only looking at information which confirms their world-view and ignoring those facts which do not.
What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
Ah, the Bertrand Russell quote favored by "JeromeDaGnome"  . Too bad he doesn't realize it applies to himself.
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Diversity, independence, innovation and imagination are progressive concepts ultimately alien to the conservative mind.
"TAX AND SPEND" IS GOOD! (TAX: Wealthy corporations who won't go poor even after taxes. SPEND: On public works programs, education, the environment, improvements.) |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2008 : 13:57:32 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Chippewa
Originally posted by calebjones1234
...Some people like to live in fantasy land only looking at information which confirms their world-view and ignoring those facts which do not.
What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
Ah, the Bertrand Russell quote favored by "JeromeDaGnome" . Too bad he doesn't realize it applies to himself.
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Really?
Interesting; people have suggested that Jerome and Caleb might be one and the same.
The fact that they enjoy the same quotes is another circumstancial evidence to support that.
But what could possibly bring a troll back to the site of his former demise? Masochism? Does he want to be spanked by the (symbolic) daddy? |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 10/05/2008 : 14:16:27 [Permalink]
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I realize that it's a bit late for this, as we've lost our caleb'sjones1234, but I feel it's worth a read, anyway. It nicely points out the shameless hypocrisy of the Republicans in general and McCain in particular as respects associations with less than acceptable people. From Hullabaloo, by Digby:
"What with all the current media activity about Obama and his acquaintance, former weatherman Bill Ayers (coming coincidentally on the heels of the McCain campaign launching a full blown character attack) Media Matters wonders why nobody has yet discussed McCain's relationship with his old pal, convicted felon G. Gordon Liddy.
On October 4, The New York Times published a 2,140-word front-page article about Sen. Barack Obama's association with former Weather Underground member William Ayers -- at least the 18th Times article this year mentioning that association. But the Times has yet to mention, let alone devote an entire article to, Sen. John McCain's relationship with radio host and convicted Watergate burglar G. Gordon Liddy. Indeed, in its October 4 article, the Times quoted Chicago Tribune columnist Steve Chapman denouncing Obama's association with Ayers but did not note that Chapman has described Liddy as McCain's "own Bill Ayers" and has written that "[i]f Obama needs to answer questions about Ayers, McCain has the same obligation regarding Liddy." The Times, moreover, quoted McCain criticizing Obama for his association with Ayers without noting that Chapman has faulted McCain for what Chapman described as McCain's "howling hypocrisy on the subject."
As Media Matters for America has noted, Liddy served four and a half years in prison in connection with his conviction for his role in the Watergate break-in and the break-in at the office of the psychiatrist of Daniel Ellsberg, the military analyst who leaked the Pentagon Papers. Liddy has acknowledged preparing to kill someone during the Ellsberg break-in "if necessary"; plotting to murder journalist Jack Anderson; plotting with a "gangland figure" to murder Howard Hunt to stop him from cooperating with investigators; plotting to firebomb the Brookings Institution; and plotting to kidnap "leftist guerillas" at the 1972 Republican National Convention -- a plan he outlined to the Nixon administration using terminology borrowed from the Nazis. (The murder, firebombing, and kidnapping plots were never carried out; the break-ins were.) During the 1990s, Liddy reportedly instructed his radio audience on multiple occasions on how to shoot Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms agents and also reportedly said he had named his shooting targets after Bill and Hillary Clinton.
Liddy has donated $5,000 to McCain's campaigns since 1998, including $1,000 in February 2008. In addition, McCain has appeared on Liddy's radio show during the presidential campaign, including as recently as May. An online video labeled "John McCain On The G. Gordon Liddy Show 11/8/07" includes a discussion between Liddy and McCain, whom Liddy described as an "old friend." During the segment, McCain praised Liddy's "adherence to the principles and philosophies that keep our nation great," said he was "proud" of Liddy, and said that "it's always a pleasure for me to come on your program."
What a pack of dipshits! Read on, dear friends; it gets better, or at least more disgustingly diverse.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2008 : 16:13:40 [Permalink]
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Well, it seems that that stunt of Palin may backfire on her:
| Sarah Palin attacked Obama's patriotism today over his association with former Weatherman Bill Ayers -- a move that makes it perfectly legitimate to raise questions about the Palins' associations with a group founded by an Alaska secessionist who once professed his "hatred for the American government" and cursed our "damn flag." |
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>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2008 : 05:44:21 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by the_ignored
Well, it seems that that stunt of Palin may backfire on her:
| Sarah Palin attacked Obama's patriotism today over his association with former Weatherman Bill Ayers -- a move that makes it perfectly legitimate to raise questions about the Palins' associations with a group founded by an Alaska secessionist who once professed his "hatred for the American government" and cursed our "damn flag." |
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I've been wondering if the press would continue with her (and her husband's association with the Alaska First people.
Here is some more on this. I'd still like to see the media at least asking about it, but my guess is that Palin is done with the press until the election and won't have to answer for this. |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2008 : 06:54:36 [Permalink]
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| But; by filling in in the role of McCain's attack dog (a role that indeed often gets to the VP candidate); she might recall the media attention to her... |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2008 : 07:28:24 [Permalink]
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I wrote
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
It's when you accuse Moderators and Administrators of being unfair you run the risk of getting banned. And when you fail to play by the rules laid out for you. |
It has been pointed out to me that the above statement isn't really correct.
Moderators and Admins have been accused of being unfair in the past, without the accusor being banned.
There are differences though between those past events and caleb: The accusations of being unfair have been well argued.
In fact, if the Staff is being unfair (we're not unfallible after all, at least I'm not. Can't say about Dave though... ), we want to know about it. As constructive criticism. Just because caleb thinks he's being treated unfairly doesn't make it so. To sway our minds you need a well reasoned argument.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2008 : 07:57:46 [Permalink]
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Caleb was a pure troll really; hardly ever referencing or even arguing his position, his posts were mostly incendiary statements laced with a few insults.
I wonder if he was not here just to see how far he could go until getting himself banned. To each his own... |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2008 : 09:02:40 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
Can't say about Dave though... |
I thought I was wrong, once. Turned out I was mistaken. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 10/06/2008 : 09:14:30 [Permalink]
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We try to be as fair as possible. But the truth is that our fairness can manifest itself in ways that could be objectively seen as unfair. For example, we tend to be more tolerant of members who actually contribute something thoughtful to discussions, even though they sometimes break certain rules of civility, than we are to someone who simply disrupts our forums with the goal of eliciting only angry responses.
caleb'sjones1234 presented as a common troll. He took no steps toward becoming a part of the SFN community.
What I'm saying is that we try to look at the whole picture when we evaluate a members behavior. I would like to see all name calling stopped. (You know who you are.) There are more creative ways to express yourself when another member makes you angry or frustrated. And we have taken steps to improve the general civility on our forum and have seen a measure of success along those lines. But again, how should we evaluate an old member who contributes, and a new member who contributes nothing but discord? The call is a subjective one and may not be as strictly fair as it would be if we applied the rules objectively, without regard to other factors.
As staff, we will probably never make everyone completely happy. But we do the best that we can to be fair, even though we could be legitimately accused of being unfair based on certain standards...
It ain't easy... |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 10/07/2008 : 13:20:40 [Permalink]
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To get back on topic, I found this today:"My government is my worst enemy. I'm going to fight them with any means at hand."
This was former revolutionary terrorist Bill Ayers back in his old Weather Underground days, right? Imagine what Sarah Palin is going to do with this incendiary quote as she tears into Barack Obama this week.
Only one problem. The quote is from Joe Vogler, the raging anti-American who founded the Alaska Independence Party. |
Again, I don't know why the media don't push this more (aren't they supposed to be liberal and all?!?) It obviously isn't going to sway the-- honestly, really frightening-- part of the population that honestly hates Obama and/or "liberals", but for those who may have been swayed somewhat by the bogus Obama-pals-with-terrorists line, this may (and should) have some effect the other way. |
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The Rat
SFN Regular
Canada
1370 Posts |
Posted - 10/07/2008 : 16:27:20 [Permalink]
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| If Caribou Barbie had any credibility to begin with the last shred was ripped away with her insultingly stupid accusation. Any chance she could get eaten by a polar bear before her environmental policies wipe them all out? |
Bailey's second law; There is no relationship between the three virtues of intelligence, education, and wisdom.
You fiend! Never have I encountered such corrupt and foul-minded perversity! Have you ever considered a career in the Church? - The Bishop of Bath and Wells, Blackadder II
Baculum's page: http://www.bebo.com/Profile.jsp?MemberId=3947338590 |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 10/07/2008 : 18:43:25 [Permalink]
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Wow... Obama was doing great; McCain starts talking... and the curves drop like a cheerleader's uniform on prom night!
It seems like the box holding people react globally negatively to (obviously negative) comments about the other candidate! |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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Palin accuses Obama of having "terrorist" friends
