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astropin
SFN Regular
USA
970 Posts |
 Posted - 11/12/2008 : 11:57:09
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I had a conversation a while back with someone who was really into lucid dreaming. Basically just being fully aware that you are dreaming, thus being able to control the dream. I was skeptical of course but curious.
Now I'm not going to get into any related mumbo jumbo about lucid dreaming. I only want to focus on one part of it. Being aware that you are in fact dreaming and then being able to manipulate the dream.
It basically boiled down to finding "triggers". Things you routinely dream about that are (or should be) obviously not routine in your waking life.
Example: Lights don't come on when you flick the switch. That's a big one (common to many people) and in fact that is the only consistent trigger I've found that works for me.
I've now had several occasions where I've become aware that I am dreaming because lights failed to come on. However I have had little success in taking control of the dream. I have on a couple of occasions been able to steer the dream in a new (more positive) direction. (Usually lights not turning on will signal a dream turning bad).
One time (very recently) I realized I was dreaming after several lights failed to come on.....I felt like I had no control over the dream and I didn't want to be there anymore, so I successfully had my wife (both in the dream and in bed) wake me up. In the dream I was yelling at her "Wake me up, I want you to wake me up". In the dream she look confused but got up off the couch and put her hand on my shoulder. In real life I was still in that state of being immobile and sounded like a drunk mumbling 90 year old man....but it was enough to have her reach over and push on my shoulder.
Anyone had any experience with this?
It's absolutely fascinating to suddenly become aware that you are in fact dreaming. So exciting in fact that many people wake themselves up the first time they experience it.
I have not dedicated any time to this at all and so far the only trigger that works for me is the lights thing. Even though I have a number of other "reoccurring" things that happen in dreams....so far none of those other things have triggered my awareness.
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I would rather face a cold reality than delude myself with comforting fantasies.
You are free to believe what you want to believe and I am free to ridicule you for it.
Atheism:
The result of an unbiased and rational search for the truth.
Infinitus est numerus stultorum |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2008 : 12:40:08 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by astropin
Anyone had any experience with this? |
Just once.
One time, many years ago, I had I dream where I was able to fly (also the only dream I remember where that happened). It was a liberating and exhilarating feeling. I remember swooping high above my street and looking down from above. I then became conscious that it must be a dream, since I knew I could not fly in waking life.
Suddenly I realized that if this were a dream, I could do anything I liked. I felt like a superhero, or Neo in the Matrix. Immediately my thoughts turned to crime (says a lot about me, no?). There could be no consequences to anything I did. So I remember flying down and just walking into a stranger's house. I think I was going to just start stealing things, or maybe I didn't really have a plan. I just knew the normal social and legal boundaries no longer applied. So I walk right in like I owned the place.
Then this is where it gets weird. As I walked in, I remember a man jumped up from his armchair and started yelling at me. "What do you think you're doing in my house!?" My bravado quickly began to fade as this irate man stormed toward me. I immediately went back outside and tried to fly away. But my powers were lessened now. Instead of being able to shoot up into the sky, I was limited to prolonged jumps. I remember getting up to about treetop level before slowly floating down again. And the man is still chasing me, so I'm having to quickly land and push off again in a new direction as he follows below. I would see him trying to work out my new trajectory and race to catch up with me. I'm in a panic now, frantically trying to get away as fast as my slow-but-extraordinarily-high jumps will allow. I vaguely remember putting some distance between us--perhaps hopping over some houses to the next street--before waking up.
And that's been my only experience with lucid dreaming. It was fun while it lasted, but obviously I couldn't maintain total control throughout. So I guess I buy into the idea that it may be possible to do more with practice.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 11/12/2008 12:42:11 |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2008 : 13:02:12 [Permalink]
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Oh, and I have been able to wake myself from a series of "night terrors," including several that were alien abduction scenarios. But those were more nightmares. After having several of them, I was able to recognize them for what they were and attempt to wake myself. In my dream, I'd be lying in bed thrashing violently, sometimes even pitching myself on the bedroom floor, only to open my eyes and find myself lying serenely in bed (albeit with a racing heartbeat). That sounds closer to what you described. I wouldn't really call it lucid dreaming though because, while I was aware that I was dreaming, I was unable to control events within the dream itself.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2008 : 13:24:32 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by astropin
Anyone had any experience with this?
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Hmmmm....
I have no memory of ever being aware of lights in dreams, much less having success turning them on or off. I have been aware of night or day, bright or dim, but I've never focussed my attention on lights themselves.
Regarding awareness in dreams, I commonly become aware I'm dreaming in nightmares. It's typically like I reason my way out of the dream: "Hey, wait a minute. This can't be happening. This is just a dream. What a relief." Then I wake up. I've never even thought to attempt to take control. |
-Chaloobi
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2008 : 13:29:10 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by H. Humbert
And that's been my only experience with lucid dreaming. It was fun while it lasted, but obviously I couldn't maintain total control throughout. So I guess I buy into the idea that it may be possible to do more with practice.
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Don't you feel like your subconscious sabataged you? I've had similar expreineces in dreams where I'm foilded by circumstance. I've been in dreams and I feel too guilty to cheat. My personal sensibilities hold true - I can't even dream infidelity. |
-Chaloobi
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2008 : 14:18:37 [Permalink]
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I had a couple of time where I realized that I was dreaming but never directed any dreams (never tried as far as I remember).
But yes, lucid dreaming is a known phenomenon. You can train yourself to do it, apparently.
I remember about an interview with a French comic book author where the guy stated 'programming' his dreams before going to sleep. Selecting the subject and stuff... |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2008 : 15:49:04 [Permalink]
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I use to have a reoccurring dream. This dream involved flying and falling. Rarely did the flying make any sense in regard to what preceeded it during these dreams. And what preceeded flying in these dreams was rarely the same. I would just start rising off the ground, eventually when I was far enough off the ground I would start to panic. I couldn't fly forever so falling was inevitable. But while still rising I would think that I had to get back on the ground. This never worked as I kept rising and rising. Until suddenly I found myself falling. Falling faster and faster toward the ground causing even greater panic. These dreams go blank prior to hitting the ground, and sometimes just prior.
Now the dreams go blank prior or just after liftoff. Is that me exercising some kind of control over these dreams? I don't know. I do know the panic seemed very real. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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Randy
SFN Regular
USA
1990 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2008 : 17:49:19 [Permalink]
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A number of years ago on the Discovery Channel was a 30 minute innovative gadget program called "Beyond 2000". They did a ten minute segment on a device called 'DreamLight'. As I recall, it was a sleep mask that could detect REM, which it would then pulse red lights. The pulsing light would be a signal to the wearer that they are dreaming. With practice one could "master and control their own dreams". I remember a few students interviewed that were very successful at manipulating their dreams. Oh yeah...'DreamLight' spun out from some University Psy departments studies on dreams.
The links below could be the same device mentioned back in the mid '90s on Beyond 2000...
http://www.lifetools.com/novadreamer/ldmore.html
http://www.world-of-lucid-dreaming.com/novadreamer.html
Come to think of it, I have a copy of that Beyond 2000 program on DVD. Think I'll try to dig it out and give it a look-see.
Edited to add...
Just watched the program. It was Stamford University that was doing the research on lucid dreaming. DreamLight was a spin off product.
Both links above mention a Stephen LaBerge. Think he headed the research back then at Stamford.
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"We are all connected; to each other biologically, to the earth chemically, to the rest of the universe atomically."
"So you're made of detritus [from exploded stars]. Get over it. Or better yet, celebrate it. After all, what nobler thought can one cherish than that the universe lives within us all?"
-Neil DeGrasse Tyson |
| Edited by - Randy on 11/12/2008 18:34:35 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2008 : 18:22:55 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by astropin
One time (very recently) I realized I was dreaming after several lights failed to come on.....I felt like I had no control over the dream and I didn't want to be there anymore, so I successfully had my wife (both in the dream and in bed) wake me up. In the dream I was yelling at her "Wake me up, I want you to wake me up". In the dream she look confused but got up off the couch and put her hand on my shoulder. In real life I was still in that state of being immobile and sounded like a drunk mumbling 90 year old man....but it was enough to have her reach over and push on my shoulder. |
Dream-time and real-time seldom match up well. People enter dream states dozens of times each night, but can have dreams which seem like they span many hours.
Also, external events can be incorporated into dreams. I once had a dream that a tiny, corkscrew-shaped creature was drilling itself into the back of my hand, and woke up to the same sensation only to find that my hand, hanging off the edge of the bed, was being poked by the corner of a cardboard box. And several times I've dreamed of being inside a building that's on fire, to wake and find out that the fire alarm in my dream had the same cadence as my alarm clock's buzzer, presently beeping.
So my first guess about the above would be that to an objective observer (who could see your dreams as they occured), the events you describe happened in a different chronological order than you list them. You, dreaming, wouldn't be able to tell. You probably made some noise - perhaps it sounded like what you said you were yelling - but your brain probably incorporated your wife into the dream after she started shaking you. Or it could have been a combination of the two.
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- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2008 : 19:45:10 [Permalink]
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| Indeed, it may be that some of the dream sequences are actually making sense because when you think back about it, you unconsciously put them in order and fill up some of the gaps. |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
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astropin
SFN Regular
USA
970 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2008 : 10:03:57 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by astropin
One time (very recently) I realized I was dreaming after several lights failed to come on.....I felt like I had no control over the dream and I didn't want to be there anymore, so I successfully had my wife (both in the dream and in bed) wake me up. In the dream I was yelling at her "Wake me up, I want you to wake me up". In the dream she look confused but got up off the couch and put her hand on my shoulder. In real life I was still in that state of being immobile and sounded like a drunk mumbling 90 year old man....but it was enough to have her reach over and push on my shoulder. |
Dream-time and real-time seldom match up well. People enter dream states dozens of times each night, but can have dreams which seem like they span many hours.
Also, external events can be incorporated into dreams. I once had a dream that a tiny, corkscrew-shaped creature was drilling itself into the back of my hand, and woke up to the same sensation only to find that my hand, hanging off the edge of the bed, was being poked by the corner of a cardboard box. And several times I've dreamed of being inside a building that's on fire, to wake and find out that the fire alarm in my dream had the same cadence as my alarm clock's buzzer, presently beeping.
So my first guess about the above would be that to an objective observer (who could see your dreams as they occured), the events you describe happened in a different chronological order than you list them. You, dreaming, wouldn't be able to tell. You probably made some noise - perhaps it sounded like what you said you were yelling - but your brain probably incorporated your wife into the dream after she started shaking you. Or it could have been a combination of the two.
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I agree that is usually the case. I was fully aware that I was dreaming. I was also fully aware that I was trying to wake up. My cries of "wake me up" (which were crystal clear in my dream) were being uttered out loud....just not very clearly because I was still mostly in the state of sleep paralysis. My wife was afraid I might actually wake up the kids when she reached over and pushed my shoulder. I would agree that she most likely pushed my shoulder in bed prior to me seeing her stand up and put her hand on my shoulder in the dream. Incorporating sounds and touches into your dreams is very common. |
I would rather face a cold reality than delude myself with comforting fantasies.
You are free to believe what you want to believe and I am free to ridicule you for it.
Atheism:
The result of an unbiased and rational search for the truth.
Infinitus est numerus stultorum |
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furshur
SFN Regular
USA
1536 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2008 : 08:24:40 [Permalink]
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When I was a youngster I use to have nightmares and was able after a time to train myself to realize I was dreaming and wake my self up. I would actually realize in the dream that I was dreaming and wake up.
More recently there have been several times where I was dreaming realized I was dreaming and was able to control the dream to a certain extent - but the more control I had it seems the more conscience I was and would wake up.
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If I knew then what I know now then I would know more now than I know. |
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Lucid Dreaming
