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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard

USA
4574 Posts

Posted - 02/10/2009 :  19:56:35  Show Profile Send H. Humbert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ok, this is one of the more extraordinary things I've seen lately.

First, play this game. The instructions are in Japanese, so here's the object of the game:

1) Click on start. The diagnostic tool will count down from 3 and show you some numbers.

2) Remember where the numbers are. The diagnostic tool will make the numbers go away and replace them with empty circles.

3) Now click each circle in turn, in order from smallest to largest. Zero is smallest.

At completion, the game will score your "brain age." The younger the better.

Start here.

You can list your scores if you want. I scored a 27.

But once you've completed the test, watch this video and prepare to feel very, very humbled.

Is that fricken amazing or what?


Hat tip to Greg Laden.


"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman

"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie

tomk80
SFN Regular

Netherlands
1278 Posts

Posted - 02/11/2009 :  01:23:45   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit tomk80's Homepage Send tomk80 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I scored 32

Tom

`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll-
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astropin
SFN Regular

USA
970 Posts

Posted - 02/13/2009 :  10:28:44   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send astropin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
On my first attempt I got 29......I'm 42. I'll take it.

I would rather face a cold reality than delude myself with comforting fantasies.

You are free to believe what you want to believe and I am free to ridicule you for it.

Atheism:
The result of an unbiased and rational search for the truth.

Infinitus est numerus stultorum
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard

USA
4574 Posts

Posted - 02/13/2009 :  11:27:06   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send H. Humbert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yeah, but what did you guys think of the chimp? That's the part I found incredible. It was like he was hardly paying attention, yet could outperform any one of us. I was actually laughing in amazement at just how awesome he was. It's exhibitions like that which force me to reevaluate my notions of animal intelligence.


"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman

"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie
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Simon
SFN Regular

USA
1992 Posts

Posted - 02/13/2009 :  12:20:13   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Simon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It was pretty impressive.

He indeed seemed mostly bored about the whole thing, but it might just be projection as chimp's physical expressions are not the same than ours.


But, I suspect it might be an effect of the filtrating that happen within our brain as part of the building of the conscience...

Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9677 Posts

Posted - 02/13/2009 :  16:35:46   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by astropin

On my first attempt I got 29......I'm 42. I'll take it.

First try I scored 34, that was early in the morning and I was barely awake.
Second try I scored 29. That was a few hours after I finished a bottle of Red (merlot).
Conclusion: I shouldn't be driving my car to work early mornings...


Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 02/13/2009 :  16:49:01   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
What was the question again?




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13467 Posts

Posted - 02/13/2009 :  18:32:46   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by filthy

What was the question again?





Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Zebra
Skeptic Friend

USA
354 Posts

Posted - 02/13/2009 :  22:11:49   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Zebra a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I got a 33 (after spazzing the first set of numbers on the test).

The video seems almost too amazing to be true - the chimp only saw the numbers for a fraction of a second! And chimps wouldn't know Arabic numerals unless they'd been coached! Turns out this chimp was the chimp champ at this game, and that his performance was not different from college students until the display time was shortened. From some guy's writeup on a neuroethics blog:
One memory test included three 5-year-old chimps who'd been taught the order of Arabic numerals 1 through 9, and a dozen human volunteers.

They saw nine numbers displayed on a computer screen. When they touched the first number, the other eight turned into white squares. The test was to touch all these squares in the order of the numbers that used to be there.

Results showed that the chimps, while no more accurate than the people, could do this faster.

One chimp, Ayumu, did the best. Researchers included him and nine college students in a second test.

This time, five numbers flashed on the screen only briefly before they were replaced by white squares. The challenge, again, was to touch these squares in the proper sequence.

When the numbers were displayed for about seven-tenths of a second, Ayumu and the college students were both able to do this correctly about 80 percent of the time.

But when the numbers were displayed for just four-tenths or two-tenths of a second, the chimp was the champ. The briefer of those times is too short to allow a look around the screen, and in those tests Ayumu still scored about 80 percent, while humans plunged to 40 percent.

That indicates Ayumu was better at taking in the whole pattern of numbers at a glance, the researchers wrote.
Okay, okay. But I bet I could hit the white squares more accurately than the chimp (except after a bottle of merlot).

Edited to add:
26 on 2nd try.
20 on 3rd try. I'm getting younger!
My tactic on 3rd try was to look for the path from low to high, rather than looking at the individual numbers.

Edited again:
The # of items increases, and possibly the duration for which they're shown decreases (harder to judge), as you solve a page correctly. Reverse happens when you mess up. It doesn't seem to care how long you take to respond.

120 seems to be the max (it's giving 3 very different #s, for what seems like a long time, at the end of that test).

I can get 20 repeatedly, but haven't been able to break 20. Always err on 2-3 pages (with what seems like 7-9 #s), can't get past that degree of difficulty. (Any young whippersnappers care to try? Or, donate a fresh young brain to someone destined to turn 46 in 2 weeks?)


I think, you know, freedom means freedom for everyone* -Dick Cheney

*some restrictions may apply
Edited by - Zebra on 02/13/2009 23:17:18
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On fire for Christ
SFN Regular

Saudi Arabia
1266 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2009 :  01:41:05   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send On fire for Christ a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So basically they know the sequence of numbers (not the actual meaning) and what they are demonstrating is short term visual memory and hand-eye coordination. If you think about it that way, it's not as surprising as it seems at first.

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Zebra
Skeptic Friend

USA
354 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2009 :  02:23:59   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Zebra a Private Message  Reply with Quote
And I think you can see the chimp chowing down on a treat after each successful page, in the video. That may be part of why it looks so desultory. ("Sheesh, don't tell me I have to do this stupid task yet again for one of those great treats. Humans, I tell ya. Get a life.")


I think, you know, freedom means freedom for everyone* -Dick Cheney

*some restrictions may apply
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard

USA
4574 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2009 :  02:24:22   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send H. Humbert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by On fire for Christ

So basically they know the sequence of numbers (not the actual meaning) and what they are demonstrating is short term visual memory and hand-eye coordination. If you think about it that way, it's not as surprising as it seems at first.
Still, the visual speed is impressive. It's like humans see the world in slow motion compared to many animals.

Also, a timely article: Kids and Monkeys About Equal in Math Skills.


"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman

"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie
Edited by - H. Humbert on 02/14/2009 02:25:08
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9677 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2009 :  05:50:54   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by H. Humbert
Still, the visual speed is impressive. It's like humans see the world in slow motion compared to many animals.
That is not so surprising.
The signals travel the neurons at a finite speed (what? I'd guess around 10-20m/s). Since the volume of the human brain is so much greater than of a chimp, it's perfectly logical that the chimp brain would be faster because the distance inside the chimp-brain that the signal has to travel is so much shorter.


Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13467 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2009 :  09:10:15   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So, a high score doesn't win? Darn!!!

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Simon
SFN Regular

USA
1992 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2009 :  09:12:15   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Simon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think part of the difference is in the actual processing of the signal once he arrives there. In men the brain foolishly make sense of it and put them in the correct mathematical orders while the chimp does not waste time doing so...

Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996
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On fire for Christ
SFN Regular

Saudi Arabia
1266 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2009 :  14:14:50   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send On fire for Christ a Private Message  Reply with Quote
plus, we don't get treats.

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