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the_ignored
SFN Addict

2558 Posts

Posted - 04/14/2009 :  18:30:15  Show Profile Send the_ignored a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This is bad, folks...very bad.


The only good thing is, the commentators don't seem too impressed with that video themselves! Download that video before those sods take it down...

Evolved and Rational has an islamic video beneath it for comparison's sake.






>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.

What brought that on? this. Original posting here.

Another example of this guy's lunacy here.

Edited by - the_ignored on 04/14/2009 18:32:31

Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4826 Posts

Posted - 04/14/2009 :  18:46:16   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by the_ignored

This is bad, folks...very bad.


The only good thing is, the commentators don't seem too impressed with that video themselves! Download that video before those sods take it down...

Evolved and Rational has an islamic video beneath it for comparison's sake.








I flagged it for youth violence.

Was that wrong of me?

Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion
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Randy
SFN Regular

USA
1990 Posts

Posted - 04/14/2009 :  18:56:48   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Randy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Most definitely the American Taliban at work. What a sick message.

"We are all connected; to each other biologically, to the earth chemically, to the rest of the universe atomically."

"So you're made of detritus [from exploded stars]. Get over it. Or better yet, celebrate it. After all, what nobler thought can one cherish than that the universe lives within us all?"
-Neil DeGrasse Tyson
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 04/14/2009 :  19:25:27   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm starting to suspect that the video's message was not intended to be... well I suppose how ever you interpret a kid with a gun and a voice over saying "If you don't matter to God, you don't matter to anyone."

Another video, also by aingenesis. This one has a much better message.

Edit: This link seems to support my suspicions above. From what I can gather, the video is saying that "If evolution where true then it doesn't matter what you do" or in the video who you kill.

So this isn't much worse than the same old crap we've heard before.

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
Edited by - Ricky on 04/14/2009 19:33:25
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dglas
Skeptic Friend

Canada
397 Posts

Posted - 04/14/2009 :  19:39:14   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send dglas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
[i]Originally posted by Valiant Dancer

I flagged it for youth violence.

Was that wrong of me?


Yes. Yes it was. Leave the crazy in the clear light of day for all to see.

--------------------------------------------------
- dglas (In the hell of 1000 unresolved subplots...)
--------------------------------------------------
The Presupposition of Intrinsic Evil
+ A Self-Justificatory Framework
= The "Heart of Darkness"
--------------------------------------------------
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard

USA
4574 Posts

Posted - 04/14/2009 :  20:22:18   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send H. Humbert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Ricky
Edit: This link seems to support my suspicions above. From what I can gather, the video is saying that "If evolution where true then it doesn't matter what you do" or in the video who you kill.
The first time I've seen this message was in the context of a billboard:



It's not exactly saying if evolution is true then it doesn't matter what you do, it's saying if evolution is true then we need to fear that our children are suddenly going to start killing us. It's fear-mongering which plays on tragedies like Columbine. It implies that godlessness is the true source of violence and immorality in the world, and of course this is relevant to AiG because they equate the teaching of evolution with the teaching of atheism.

This new video has an entirely new message: "If you don't matter to god, you don't matter to anyone." Not content to spread baseless fears, AiG is now slanting their message to read as a veiled threat. It's saying that if people insist on teaching evolution and ignoring god, then the god believers have no reason not to kill atheists. Of course, the threat is not explicitly overt, and if pressed I'm sure AiG would deny that it was their intention to threaten anyone. I would not be at all inclined to believe them. Their bread is buttered by incensing their ignorant followers to ever higher pitches of hysterical outrage. They want to cash in on all the angry militancy coming from the disenfranchised religious right after their loss of political power with the election of Barack Obama and a Democratic congress. AiG knows how to fan the flames while still leaving room for plausible denial. It's definitely premeditated.


"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman

"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie
Edited by - H. Humbert on 04/14/2009 20:27:19
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 04/15/2009 :  16:55:01   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm in a bit of a hurry, so I can only respond briefly.

This new video has an entirely new message


I agree, but I'm not convinced that was their intent.

It's saying that if people insist on teaching evolution and ignoring god, then the god believers have no reason not to kill atheists. Of course, the threat is not explicitly overt, and if pressed I'm sure AiG would deny that it was their intention to threaten anyone.


I must say (again... sorry) that I'm not convinced myself. I think finding intent is quite difficult to do, and you may be... jumping the gun... a little. I'm not saying your wrong, just that I don't see enough to claim that true. I refuse to dismiss the possibility that the people at AiG are just idiots because I have strong evidence of this.

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
Edited by - Ricky on 04/15/2009 16:55:40
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the_ignored
SFN Addict

2558 Posts

Posted - 04/21/2009 :  09:50:58   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send the_ignored a Private Message  Reply with Quote
How AIG explains that video.

For the heck of it, though it's only from Wikipedia, supposed actual homicide rates.






>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.

What brought that on? this. Original posting here.

Another example of this guy's lunacy here.
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard

USA
4574 Posts

Posted - 04/21/2009 :  11:41:43   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send H. Humbert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by the_ignored

How AIG explains that video.
Yep. I told you they were trying to cash in on Columbine.


"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman

"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 04/21/2009 :  12:27:28   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Of course they're trying to cash in on Columbine! profiting from the tears of others is what they do best -- aside from intentionally lying about science, of course.

But really, this is no more than the same, old froth off the slop bucket that we've encountered so many times before: "There can be no morality if there is no God to provide and guide it," or twaddle to that effect. The young man with the pistol is no more than an exclamation point; a mere punctuation to add some sort of cheap drama melodrama.

AiG was, is, and will always be no more than a joke.




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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the_ignored
SFN Addict

2558 Posts

Posted - 04/21/2009 :  15:25:11   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send the_ignored a Private Message  Reply with Quote
What's ironic is that those gunmen have no idea what "NATURAL selection" means, and of course, AIG will not bother correcting them, since their ignorance plays right into their hands.

Even more sick, get a load of the second picture of one of those guys wearing a shirt that says that humanity is over-rated. Remember our friend Javier agreeing with Cheung when Cheung said basically the same thing?

Then there's William Lane Craig.




>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.

What brought that on? this. Original posting here.

Another example of this guy's lunacy here.
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 04/21/2009 :  17:10:16   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by H. Humbert

Originally posted by the_ignored

How AIG explains that video.
Yep. I told you they were trying to cash in on Columbine.


Do you still believe that the message was that it's ok to kill atheists?

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard

USA
4574 Posts

Posted - 04/21/2009 :  19:35:04   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send H. Humbert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Ricky
Do you still believe that the message was that it's ok to kill atheists?
I think they began this marketing campaign with the intention of cashing in on the Columbine tragedy, but I also believe the dialogue delivered in this latest commercial was deliberately crafted in such a manner as to allow for the reading that there's no reason not to harm atheists, yes. But as I said, it isn't surprising that they would deny this, nor do they merit the benefit of the doubt. They are pathological liars. If they said it was raining outside I would open the window and check. Always assume a creationist is lying whenever they open their mouth.


"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman

"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 04/21/2009 :  20:35:52   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Ricky

Originally posted by H. Humbert

Originally posted by the_ignored

How AIG explains that video.
Yep. I told you they were trying to cash in on Columbine.


Do you still believe that the message was that it's ok to kill atheists?
I don't think that was their intended message. The kid with the gun was supposed to represent an evil atheist, not a God-fearing theist on a holy mission to eliminate freethinkers. AiG simply wanted to demonize atheists. And raise money.

AiG is thoughtful. Any AiG ads to encourage religious nuts to slaughter the unfaithful would only come out once their demonization campaign was successful.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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Simon
SFN Regular

USA
1992 Posts

Posted - 04/21/2009 :  21:00:46   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Simon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I agree with you Mooner, but I can also see where Humbert is coming from.
The initial message, while low and slimy, was quite clear: 'Keep God in the classroom, or kids will turn into killers'.
Yet, they decided to change for another one, much more ambiguous and potentially threatening. Once can ask himself why the change? Why make the message less clear and more likely to be misunderstood?

I don't think that it is part of some nefarious plans. But I can see why other would.

Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 04/21/2009 :  21:15:11   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Simon

I agree with you Mooner, but I can also see where Humbert is coming from.
The initial message, while low and slimy, was quite clear: 'Keep God in the classroom, or kids will turn into killers'.
Yet, they decided to change for another one, much more ambiguous and potentially threatening. Once can ask himself why the change? Why make the message less clear and more likely to be misunderstood?

I don't think that it is part of some nefarious plans. But I can see why other would.
You both may be right. I have been assuming the more direct message was intended, but there's a possibility they were more sophisticated than that. Unlike Hovind, Ham is no fool.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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