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RickJ
New Member
USA
1 Post |
 Posted - 04/20/2009 : 07:59:46
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Ok, I know the term itself is debatable...
Some say these folks dig with the Bible in one hand and a shovel in the other...
Fine by me.
I love the Biblical Archaeology Society because there are NO presumptions.
They dig and publish their finds.
Many times their finds contradict the Bible but that's ok by me.
Have any of you seen them before?: www.bib-arch.org
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2009 : 09:55:11 [Permalink]
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| Well, after a brief scan of the site I can find no reason to accuse them of using their research for the purpose of supporting biblical historical accuracy for the sake of apologetics. Unless I missed something, which is possible, I have no problem with what the BAS is doing. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2009 : 12:09:06 [Permalink]
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Biblical archaeology has a spotted record as more than a few apologetics weaselled themselves into the field.
But the fact remain that the Bible, in some of its section, act as a historical record. There is no particular reason to a priori distrust it, not until it start being contradicted by other sources or the results from Archaeology.
It is when that serious archaeologist can be separed from shovel wielding apologetists.
But there are several passages of the Bible, most if not all of Exodus, for example, that have essentially be disproved as historical records. |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2009 : 16:02:35 [Permalink]
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Welcome to SFN, RickJ!
Some Biblical Archaeologists are indeed doing real work. But the field is indeed spotty, with some of these people interpreting equivocal evidence as confirming their pre-existing beliefs. Most of these people are simply sifting dirt like any other archeologist's would, and perhaps feeling sad that they haven't found evidence for Jesus or the Exodus.
But, unlike "normal" scientists who generally are prepared for the implications of whatever they dig up, most if not all Biblical Archaeologists have conclusions already in mind before they dip their trowels into dirt. They are thus primed for making erroneous interpretations, even if they successfully resist actually drawing them.
The Bad Archeology site has an article on Biblical Archeology. Boston.com News has another. Lastly, here is Wikipedia's article.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2009 : 17:13:08 [Permalink]
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Okay. I've been looking around a bit. Hershel Shanks is the editor of Biblical Archaeology Review which is linked to in the OP. There are controversies surrounding some of the opinions of this guy that probably shouldn't be dismissed as purely academic. I came up with this article from the The Rational Response Squad, (a group I don't wholeheartedly trust) which I think is worth the read. The article may shed some light on the Biblical Archaeology Society. There is much more out there. I just don't have time now to investigate this further. I am intrigued.
Hershel Shanks and the Biblical Archaeology Review
It begins:
I have been meaning to write an article on a few of the entries in the most recent BAR. No, not the Browning Automatic Rifle, I'm talking about the Biblical Archaeology Review. Although some of you would probably find the first more entertaining, the latter is really the more important and relevant thing to discuss, as far as I'm concerned. Especially in light of the guest appearance this Wednesday night on our show, Dr. Hector Avalos, and his fascinating book, The End of Biblical Studies.
I generally read through this periodical, not only because I find the articles compelling, but the Magazine as a whole attempts to break the chain of evangelism by presenting—and I mean it really tries hard—the most scientific articles it can find, or that have been submitted. Some are unbelievably inaccurate, and at times the Magazine editor, Hershel Shanks, will allow his Jewish-religious viewpoints to interfere with his choice of articles, and often his choice of words.
I make it a point to highlight his Jewishness, because unlike many Biblical periodicals that exist, Shanks is not a fan of evangelism. This is a point that has been consistently made throughout his career. In fact, one has to wonder if perhaps it was the combination of these two factors, his Jewish heritage and his problems with evangelism, that led Shanks to once have openly endorse and back the now-sensationalized James ossuary, which is now considered by many scholars to be a forgery. It was a mistake that has stayed with him for some time, and because of it he has received a lot of grief over it; and rightly he should receive it.... |
Read on.
Edited to add:
And then there is this excerpt from this 2005 article that appeared in Live Science.
Voice of Reason: The 'James Ossuary' and the Need for Skepticism by By Kevin Christopher, from the Skeptical Inquirer.
| …Another example of rushing to judgment and stonewalling against later evidence is Herschel Shanks, who has ardently promoted the James Ossuary and defended Oded Golan. He has engaged in personal attacks on IAA staff and attempted to cast doubt on IAA reports. Shanks has only grudgingly acknowledge the possibility that the James Ossuary inscription is a forgery and that Oded Golan forged the it and many other artifacts. While his magazine touted the James Ossuary as a great archeological find in 2002, its position now is that it does not know whether the artifact is forged or Golan is a forger… |
Now, I am not out to get Shanks at this point. It may just be that he is a mixed bag. At this point, I am only reporting what I have found. But it does seem that his publication needs to be viewed with some amount of skepticism.
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2009 : 19:44:56 [Permalink]
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And the whole mess with Shanks going ad hom on his "anti-Zionist" colleagues while getting sucked onto supporting frauds, is just a sign of what's going on within "mainstream" Biblical Archeology.
Outside that mainstream are the total deliberate frauds, the Ark hunters (both kinds, the nautical vessel and the holy box) and all the flim-flam by completely non-scholarly scammers making bucks by taking advantage of Christian ignoramuses.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2009 : 23:57:56 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by RickJ
Ok, I know the term itself is debatable...
Some say these folks dig with the Bible in one hand and a shovel in the other... |
Well, look, you'll of course find scholars out there who aim to "prove" some aspect of the biblical narrative via their research. (There also seem to be others who aim to do the opposite!)
I love the Biblical Archaeology Society because there are NO presumptions.
They dig and publish their finds. |
I'm not sure that the BAS (and its primary publication, the Biblical Archaeology Review) is 100% presumption-free, and what's being published there isn't the sort of peer-reviewed research that would appear in more scholarly journals; most of what appears in BAR is for more popular consumption.
| Many times their finds contradict the Bible but that's ok by me. |
Yes, you will find articles wherein some scholar publishes a view that challenges a conventional interpretation. I don't know how much they "contradict" the Bible, but I haven't followed BAR enough to know.
Yes! I used to subscribe, but that was a long time ago... |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2009 : 04:06:32 [Permalink]
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Is it coincidence that "Admin1" over on the BAS forums is called "RickJ" by several of its members? The last post in this thread is just one example.
I think we've been spammed. Ironic for someone who praises a lack of an agenda to have a hidden one, yes? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2009 : 06:23:45 [Permalink]
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Curiouser and curiouser.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2009 : 09:48:05 [Permalink]
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| Nah, nothing curious about it. RickJ wanted to advertise, and neglected to tell us it was an advertisement. Happens all the time. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2009 : 10:39:37 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Nah, nothing curious about it. RickJ wanted to advertise, and neglected to tell us it was an advertisement. Happens all the time.
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Too bad he wasn't up front about it. By not doing so, he has hurt his own credibility. Since this might have been an interesting topic on a skeptic site, it's a shame that he chose a method of spamming us instead.
Again, too bad.
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2009 : 11:40:34 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by RickJ
I love the Biblical Archaeology Society because there are NO presumptions.
They dig and publish their finds. |
No presumptions? So they just dig random holes in the ground?
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2009 : 16:03:00 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Is it coincidence that "Admin1" over on the BAS forums is called "RickJ" by several of its members? The last post in this thread is just one example.
I think we've been spammed. Ironic for someone who praises a lack of an agenda to have a hidden one, yes?
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Well, that's what I was wondering, too. It totally seemed like one of those spams that we get. And he hasn't bothered to follow up on any of our comments. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2009 : 20:20:59 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Nah, nothing curious about it. RickJ wanted to advertise, and neglected to tell us it was an advertisement. Happens all the time.
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Oh, I figured that. It certainly wasn't the most offensive way we've been spammed, either.
I'm simply curious as to why RickJ thought SFN was a good place to advertise. Was it a search that showed him our fora have a combination of interests in both Judeo-Christian religion and science?
I suspect the truth is that SFN is one of the worst places imaginable for his site to advertise. Though I'm glad he sparked this discussion, I wish he'd return to post comments about what we've written on Biblical Archaeology.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2009 : 21:03:52 [Permalink]
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It probably was a spam. Probably through some automated search based on key words.
We do regularly discuss about the Archaeology of Biblical times after all. If that's the case, the JREF fora will most likely act as a magnet for the bot. But I have yet to see the same spam there. Maybe they have a different spam filter... |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2009 : 07:44:38 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Simon
Maybe they have a different spam filter...
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JREF doesn't allow neither links (nor even smilies!) the first 10 posts.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
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Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Biblical archaeology?
