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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 11/02/2009 :  05:26:00  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ken Ham continues to behind-the-scenes push for YEC nonsense to be taught in public schools. He's really very good at it, making statements almost without seeming to, well, make statements.
Who Is Really Conducting the “Child Abuse”?

We have noticed in recent times, secularists increasingly using the term child abuse as an accusation against Christians teaching their children the Bible, creation, and so on. Famous atheist/evolutionist Richard Dawkins uses that term, and so do others of the “new atheists.” Obviously, one of their ploys is that ‘if you throw enough mud, after a while some of it will stick.” These people also accuse AiG of child abuse. I have numerous quotes of these secularists accusing us of such because children come to the Creation Museum and are exposed to anti-evolution and pro-Bible teachings (that go contrary to what is taught in almost all government-run schools). Recently, another secularist blogger, in response to my new book on dinosaurs (Dinosaurs for Kids) once again accuses me of child abuse, with the headline:

Intellectual child abuse … Our favorite [expletive] crazy Creationut Ken Ham has a new Dino-book out for the kiddies …

But who is really conducting the ‘child absue [sic]?’
I am without doubt that you will tell us. I've looked for reviews in his new book Dinosaurs for Kids but have been unable to locate any, so I'll reserve comment on what I'm sure is another load creationist tripe (see, I can do it too, albeit not so subtly).
These secularists want to teach children they are nothing but rearranged pond scum (as a Scientific American article once called people)—they are just animals—when you die that is the end of you totally, so there is no real meaning and purpose in life. There is no hope—all is hopelessness and purposelessness. This is why they want children only taught atheistic evolution: so they will believe they are just an animal. No wonder we see generations increasingly acting in accord with such a philosophy. And these secularists are the ones who have demanded legalized abortion, so they can allow millions of children to be killed in the womb!

This is all real child abuse that is going on across this nation and around the world.
Oh my gods! Run away! Run away before all is lost!

No Ken, what we have here is a viciously spun mini-rant against fact-based science education. It is mainly the same, old crap that equates abortion with education, and is a cheap shot as well as an outright lie. I call bullshit on your sorry ass!
At AiG and the Creation Museum, we teach children the truth concerning who they are and where they come from—that they do have purpose and meaning in life—that they were created for a purpose—that our Creator so loves us, even while we are sinners (as we sinned in Adam), He paid the penalty for our sin and offers a FREE gift of salvation so we can live with Him for eternity. Yes, there is purpose and meaning in life. We are not just animals; we are all made in the image of God.

How sweet. Another plug for the midway sideshow that you call a museum, that has given the entire scientific community a good laugh. At the Creation Mooseun, you teach lies; utter crap. The Bible is a scientific text in the same way that Mein Kamph promotes atheism.
Christians need to become more active in responding to these “child abuse” claims and standing up for what is right and showing this culture who the real “child abusers” are.

Promoting ignorance to children is the way to go, right?
But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea. Matthew 9:42

Thanks for stopping by and thanks for praying

Ken

Oops, forgot to pray. Sorry 'bout that.

That's actually a pretty good quote. But, as it came not from a book of science, it applies as well to you. Think about it....




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26012 Posts

Posted - 11/02/2009 :  05:48:51   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally quoted by filthy

At AiG and the Creation Museum, we teach children the truth concerning who they are and where they come from—that they do have purpose and meaning in life—that they were created for a purpose—that our Creator so loves us, even while we are sinners (as we sinned in Adam), He paid the penalty for our sin and offers a FREE gift of salvation so we can live with Him for eternity. Yes, there is purpose and meaning in life. We are not just animals; we are all made in the image of God.
You'll note that he doesn't actually say what the meaning or purpose of human life is from a Biblical perspective. Salvation isn't meaning and eternal life with Jesus isn't a purpose. Being made in the image of a loving God is itself meaning- and purpose-free.

Of course, Ham cannot say what meaning or purpose we have because being God's playthings makes life meaningless and purpose-free. Since God is omnipotent, there's nothing that we can do that will make a difference to God's plans. God may have a meaning and purpose in mind for us (if He exists), but that doesn't infuse any particular human life with those attributes.

And this problem isn't unique to fundamentalists. More moderate theists also try to sell their faiths on the "meaning and purpose" question, and fail just as badly.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 11/02/2009 :  06:20:06   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Excellent wrap-up, Dave.

What it is, I'm laid low this morning with the arthur-ritis and worse yet, iI'm bored. When bored, having someone to attack helps. I almost went after Denise O'Leary's latest wheezer, but she is just so.... so superficial. She only has the potential for more ennui.
Darwinism and popular culture: So we really ARE allowed to critique the little god Darwin now?
O'Leary

Apparently, the sort of comments made in my article in Touchstone – about the little god Darwin – have been noticed by at least one person.

THE DARWIN MOVIE’S NOT SELLING, but John Scalzi doubts those evil Creationmongers are a part of the reason:

How about this: The movie is not selling because it is not believed … Huh? Maybe the story is not believable?

People now generally guess that Darwin was a materialist atheist long before his daughter died. And his whole coterie was committed to promoting that view, and is still today.

Ham is far more engrossing and a far more accomplished liar. He's a lot more fun.

Now, what next to keep the fatigue monster from my mind? Maybe I'll start a Scattershot....




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Hawks
SFN Regular

Canada
1383 Posts

Posted - 11/02/2009 :  09:06:09   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Hawks's Homepage Send Hawks a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dave W.
Of course, Ham cannot say what meaning or purpose we have because being God's playthings makes life meaningless and purpose-free. Since God is omnipotent, there's nothing that we can do that will make a difference to God's plans. God may have a meaning and purpose in mind for us (if He exists), but that doesn't infuse any particular human life with those attributes.


Along similar lines, I'm just having an "argument" with some of the ID creationists at uncommon descent. UDers keep on harping on about how atheists have no objective morals and I am simply pointing out that they don't have them either - at least in the the sense that they are infinitely unlikely to know what these morals are, even given that they exist. In order to know the objective moral standard, one must know which god exists and it's moral decrees. This seems infinitely hard for these people to understand.

METHINKS IT IS LIKE A WEASEL
It's a small, off-duty czechoslovakian traffic warden!
Edited by - Hawks on 11/02/2009 10:45:23
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26012 Posts

Posted - 11/02/2009 :  20:05:30   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Hawks

Along similar lines, I'm just having an "argument" with some of the ID creationists at uncommon descent. UDers keep on harping on about how atheists have no objective morals...
All science so far!

It is actually amazing to see how far the quality of discussion has fallen at UD since Dave Scott split. Now, now... stop laughing, I'm serious. While Scooter himself could be counted on to regularly bring the hard-core tard (like when he said that typing a sentence violates the Second Law of Thermodynamics, or that gravity is the strongest of the fundamental forces), he could also be counted on to bring the smack-down when things strayed too far over the "ID has nothing to do with religion" line in the sand.

But with him out of the way, the mush-minded over at UD now seem to feel obligated to bring out the "God, therefore ID" nonsense whenever they've dug themselves too far into a hole. And that kind of tard is available from much classier acts, like Ken Ham. Sure, Ham may not have a frilly shirt or an overgrown sweater, but he did manage to pull together a $25 million "museum," which is something the clowns at UD will never be able to match (not least because they've got nothing to showcase except bad math and stolen videos).

Think about it: even Michael Behe knows better than to leave his little Amazon.com fiefdom to post at UD now, and he's written books filled with major-league stupid.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Hawks
SFN Regular

Canada
1383 Posts

Posted - 11/02/2009 :  20:25:04   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Hawks's Homepage Send Hawks a Private Message  Reply with Quote
From the already mentioned thread at UD:

Hawks wrote:
If God, The Single Creator of everything, did indeed exist, and decreed that exterminating the jews was a moral act, would you support, or even take part, in the extermination of jews?


Brent wrote:
I thought we already played this game.

Yes, I would.


Brent would make an excellent nazi.

And atheists are the ones without morals...

METHINKS IT IS LIKE A WEASEL
It's a small, off-duty czechoslovakian traffic warden!
Edited by - Hawks on 11/02/2009 20:25:52
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the_ignored
SFN Addict

2558 Posts

Posted - 11/02/2009 :  21:43:03   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send the_ignored a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Holy shit. Get a load of this guy's response.

I don't know about the question, but his answer sure as fuck hell has a significance! And he's the one claiming absolute morality for his side?


Their version of morality is: whatever "god" tells them to do, regardless of human pain and suffering it may or may not entail. Taking the victim's views into account does not go into their equation at all, does it?


>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.

What brought that on? this. Original posting here.

Another example of this guy's lunacy here.
Edited by - the_ignored on 11/02/2009 21:45:16
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 11/03/2009 :  04:54:25   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Hawks

From the already mentioned thread at UD:

Hawks wrote:
If God, The Single Creator of everything, did indeed exist, and decreed that exterminating the jews was a moral act, would you support, or even take part, in the extermination of jews?


Brent wrote:
I thought we already played this game.

Yes, I would.


Brent would make an excellent nazi.

And atheists are the ones without morals...
And there we have it, shucked, plucked and fucked. With claim of God on your side, you can tell any lie, commit any atrocity with moral impunity. If it's done in the name of God, it is righteous by definition, as history has demonstrated ad infinitum. This not only makes God out as a sacred scapegoat, but a chump in the bargain.

Dave:

But with him out of the way, the mush-minded over at UD now seem to feel obligated to bring out the "God, therefore ID" nonsense whenever they've dug themselves too far into a hole. And that kind of tard is available from much classier acts, like Ken Ham. Sure, Ham may not have a frilly shirt or an overgrown sweater, but he did manage to pull together a $25 million "museum," which is something the clowns at UD will never be able to match (not least because they've got nothing to showcase except bad math and stolen videos).

Of all the evangelical assholes out there, I think that Ham is the most dangerous. He is smart & cunning, ruthless, and has a politician's talent for glibness. He is not ordained and probably never will be. He is on the road constantly, speaking to that Christian group or another across the country and even over seas.

He realizes that which every successful con man learns early-on: Suckers Love Neat & Shiny Stuff! He has put together a great, glistening pile of Neat & Shiny Stuff!, and managed to do it without a single dime coming from his own and AiG's pockets, His "museum," his towering monument to iron-skull ignorance, was completely financed by donations and as a consequence, is debt-free. I have read that he's going to enlarge the parking lot, but is waiting for enough cash to flow in. It's only some 400 grand, if memory serves, so it shouldn't be too much longer now.

And here's his main contribution to promoting ignorance in the schools, aside from encouraging others to be the cat's paw, that is: he actively encourages class field trips to visit his freak-show, even, if I'm not mistaken, offering a discount at the gate (but nobody rides entirely for free). It is my understanding that he gets lots of field trips to brain-wash and expends little effort in the scrubbing. The "museum" does it for him, as planned from the very beginning.

Occasionally I wonder if he really believes in the garbage he strews about. With his grifter's talents, he really doesn't need to.




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 11/03/2009 :  05:37:50   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I opened a link to UD. now I feel like I need to clean my computer or something... That place still reeks of stupid.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 11/03/2009 :  21:56:41   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally written by Ken Ham

But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea. Matthew 9:42

Thanks for stopping by and thanks for praying

Ken
It was my pleasure Ken. Nice death threat there aimed at science teachers, you theonazi fuckwit.

Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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Hawks
SFN Regular

Canada
1383 Posts

Posted - 11/04/2009 :  16:37:41   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Hawks's Homepage Send Hawks a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I suspect that my ongoing "discussion" regarding the existence of objective morality over at UD has come to an end. My last post appears to have been silently deleted and Clive Hayden (moderator) has written how it is futile arguing with me. He also writes:

Morality is always the premise, not the conclusion, and if someone doesn’t see it, then no argument can bring someone to it.


I take this to mean that he simply assumes that he knows what objective morality exists. This seems likely since, in my last (deleted) post I asked Brent to supply evidence for why he knows what objective morality is.

What is quite amazing is what CLive writes last:

It is like trying to argue with someone who doesn’t understand and cannot be got to just “see” first principles in logic. This is ground level zero, and is someone will not begin there, you can’t bring them there.


If I am right, Clive is assuming his conclusion. And for some reason I don't understand logic...

You know, some people might consider it immoral to silently delete posts so that it appears as if someone hasn't got an answer. But I suppose that the bible says nothing about this, which makes it 100% OK.

METHINKS IT IS LIKE A WEASEL
It's a small, off-duty czechoslovakian traffic warden!
Edited by - Hawks on 11/04/2009 16:53:08
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