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 New Jersey Senate defeats gay marriage bill
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Bill scott
SFN Addict

USA
2103 Posts

Posted - 01/08/2010 :  07:55:26  Show Profile Send Bill scott a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Every time the public is given a chance to vote they shoot gay marriage down. Heck, even the NJ Senate can see this not in the best interest of society.

Five states currently allow same sex marriage, while thirty have rejected similar measures in referendum votes.


I believe the five states that allow gay marriage legislated it against the will of the people. In other words it had to be forced upon them. It can't win with an up or down referendum. The folks don't want it!

Marriage is where a male and female come together in union to raise children as a family unit to prolong the society. Always has and always will.

Any other deviation is nothing but a counterfeit and/or broken example of the original intent and design of marriage. The results in real life society empirically demonstrate this.

Anyway here is the article:

The New Jersey Senate voted Thursday against legalizing same-sex marriage, making the Garden State the latest to turn down legislation that proponents have called a civil rights issue.

The Freedom of Religion and Equality in Marriage Act failed by a vote of 20 to 14. The vote was scheduled to take place last month, but was postponed due to an apparent lack of support, The Philadelphia Inquirer reported.

New Jersey voters are narrowly divided on the issue, with gay marriage opponents finding more support by a 49-46 percentage point margin, according to a November poll from Quinnipiac University. State Democrats favor the measure 60-34, while Republicans oppose it 69-25, the poll found. The margin of error was 2.4 percentage points.

Five states currently allow same sex marriage, while thirty have rejected similar measures in referendum votes. The state senate in neighboring New York, where many New Jersey residents work, rejected a gay marriage bill 38 to 24 in December.

New Jersey currently allows same-sex civil unions, which accords adoption rights among other privileges.

“They're still not happy. They want to dilute marriage," Rabbi Yehuda Levin of the Rabbinical Alliance of America told the Newark Star-Ledger prior to the vote.

Activist groups say civil unions are a poor substitute for marriage.

“If New Jersey’s civil union law were a person, it would be arrested for committing fraud,” reads a message on the Web site of Garden State Equality, a gay marriage advocacy group. “Civil unions will never achieve the acceptance and equality of marriage.”

Proponents of the bill hoped to have it passed before Democratic Governor Jon Corzine, who supports the measure, leaves office.

Governor-elect Chris Christie, a Republican, had vowed to veto the legislation if it passed. Christie takes office Jan. 19.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/01/07/new-jersey-gay-marriage/?test=latestnews

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Maverick
Skeptic Friend

Sweden
385 Posts

Posted - 01/08/2010 :  08:29:15   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Maverick a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Bill scott

Every time the public is given a chance to vote they shoot gay marriage down. Heck, even the NJ Senate can see this not in the best interest of society.

Five states currently allow same sex marriage, while thirty have rejected similar measures in referendum votes.


I believe the five states that allow gay marriage legislated it against the will of the people. In other words it had to be forced upon them. It can't win with an up or down referendum. The folks don't want it!

Does it matter? Should we abandon everything on the whim of bigoted idiots? Doesn't sound like a very good idea. Homosexual marriage is forced upon you or anyone else who don't want to get married to someone with the same gender, just as much as any kind of marriage is forced upon me! You see, I don't want to get married to anyone, and yet for some reason heterosexual marriage is forced upon me!

Marriage is where a male and female come together in union to raise children as a family unit to prolong the society. Always has and always will.

Lots of people raise children without being married. Lots of couples get married and then never procreate. You can't seriously say that people get married because they wish to prolong society or whatever. And to suggest that same sex couples are necessarily more unfit than mixed sex couples in raising children is outright offensive.

Also, "always has been this way" is a bad argument.

Any other deviation is nothing but a counterfeit and/or broken example of the original intent and design of marriage. The results in real life society empirically demonstrate this.

So for absolutely no reason that I can see being presented here or anywhere, change should be opposed when morons think it's icky? You do realise, do you not, that with your kind of attitude, society will never move forward?

"Life is but a momentary glimpse of the wonder of this astonishing universe, and it is sad to see so many dreaming it away on spiritual fantasy." -- Carl Sagan
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9677 Posts

Posted - 01/08/2010 :  08:38:14   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Bill scott

Every time the public is given a chance to vote they shoot gay marriage down.
That's because the people who go to the polling stations aren't representative the entire population.
There's a huge difference between:
I don't mind if gays can marry. I don't care.
and
I think gay marriage is against God's will, therefore I will not tolerate it.

If two thirds of the population don't care, and only half of them care enough to vote, they will be outvoted by they gay hating intolerant people if most of them decide to vote.



Heck, even the NJ Senate can see this not in the best interest of society.
Please explain how denying some people the same rights can be in the best interests of society...


Five states currently allow same sex marriage, while thirty have rejected similar measures in referendum votes.


I believe the five states that allow gay marriage legislated it against the will of the people.
And I believe that all but five states are denying people equal rights against the will of the people, and that's because not enough people care enough to take a stand on the issue.


In other words it had to be forced upon them. It can't win with an up or down referendum. The folks don't want it!
The folks motivated by religious bigotry enough to haul their asses to the polling stations don't want it. That's a friggin' big difference.


Marriage is where a male and female come together in union
Marriage is where two people regardless of sex come together in union.


to raise children as a family unit to prolong the society. Always has and always will.
People raise children together to prolong the society, without being married, all the time. Always has and always will.


Any other deviation is nothing but a counterfeit and/or broken example of the original intent and design of marriage.
Says who?


The results in real life society empirically demonstrate this.
Demonstrates what exactly?


http://www.foxnews.com/politics
LMFAO!
That's not a news source. It's a mockery of the ideals of journalism.
Nice try. Had I been moderator of this section, I would have moved this thread to the Humour-folder...


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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 01/08/2010 :  08:39:40   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
What contemptible bigotry, Bill. Yes, there are many tens of millions of bigots in the US, and perhaps billions in the world. But basic matters of human rights don't derive from personal prejudice. They are inherently possessed. Rights aren't privileges kindly extended by one's Christian (or atheist) neighbors.

The New Jersey senators who voted against the legislation to allow equal rights for marriage are bigots and cowards. So are their supporters. So are you.

The same arguments from popularity were made in the South to justify slavery, across this nation to justify denying to vote to women, and those arguments were just as obscene as your wish to deny equal rights to our fellow citizens based upon their gender.

I find it especially telling that bigots like to deplore sexual promiscuity among homosexuals, yet are determined to deny them the right and dignity to solemnize marriage as a commitment to one long-term partner.

But attitudes toward same-sex marriage are changing. Younger people favor extending legal same-sex marriage, while the bigots generally are older and dying out. So, even based upon an argument from popularity, you bigots are going to lose.

Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Edited by - HalfMooner on 01/08/2010 21:53:59
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26012 Posts

Posted - 01/08/2010 :  09:16:07   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Bill scott

Marriage is where a male and female come together in union to raise children as a family unit to prolong the society. Always has and always will.
Except in the Bible, but let's just ignore that book because it's inconvenient to your argument.
Any other deviation is nothing but a counterfeit and/or broken example of the original intent and design of marriage. The results in real life society empirically demonstrate this.
Which results are those? What's the harm of gays getting married? Where is the empirically demonstrable damage to society from Mark and Fred getting hitched?

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Why not question something for a change?
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 01/08/2010 :  09:34:21   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ok, I have a question. I keep hearing that gay marriage will destroy all marriage; I ask: how?

Being straight, I don't really have a dog in this fight, and neither should you, Bill. However, I firmly believe that every citizen of this country should be able to enjoy all of the rights, privileges and responsibilities guarenteed by the constitution as any other, gay, straight or ambigious.




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


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Fripp
SFN Regular

USA
727 Posts

Posted - 01/08/2010 :  10:46:55   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Fripp a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have a picture of a rally from the 50's. People are holding up signs claiming that Mixed-race marriages are Communism and in violation of God's Law.

I am quite sure that had people been given the chance to vote on Mixed-race marriage, it would failed over and over again as well.

Argument ad populum - the popular opinion is the "right" one - is a logical fallacy. At one time, everyone thought the the Earth was flat, and that the Sun revolved around the earth.

If you are concerned about marriage, why not introduce a bill outlawing divorce?

I'm not gay, so I really don't give a shit one way or the other. But your "reasoning", as usual, is pathetic.

"What the hell is an Aluminum Falcon?"

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moakley
SFN Regular

USA
1888 Posts

Posted - 01/08/2010 :  10:52:24   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send moakley a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Bill scott

Marriage is where a male and female come together in union to raise children as a family unit to prolong the society. Always has and always will.

Any other deviation is nothing but a counterfeit and/or broken example of the original intent and design of marriage. The results in real life society empirically demonstrate this.
My wife and I have been married for 28 years. When we have talked about this neither of us can come up with anything on how allowing same sex couples to marry would in any way negatively effect our marriage. I guess that's because we are pretty secure as a couple.

Life is good

Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13467 Posts

Posted - 01/08/2010 :  10:55:18   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ahhhhh... Here we go again. The right talks about personal freedom, but they do it with their fingers crossed behind their backs. I guess the freedom they talk about is the freedom to deny others the same freedoms that they claim for themselves.

Same as it ever was.

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

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Baxter
Skeptic Friend

USA
131 Posts

Posted - 01/08/2010 :  11:55:10   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Baxter a Private Message  Reply with Quote
How well do children develop with same-sex parents? Has there been sufficient research on this?

"We tend to scoff at the beliefs of the ancients. But we can't scoff at them personally, to their faces, and this is what annoys me." ~from Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey

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bngbuck
SFN Addict

USA
2437 Posts

Posted - 01/08/2010 :  12:02:16   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send bngbuck a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Bill scott......

Any other deviation is nothing but a counterfeit and/or broken example of the original intent and design of marriage. The results in real life society empirically demonstrate this.
What "results in real life society" are you referring to, Bill? Can you document, give an example, or a link to substantiate this bullshit? No, I thought not!

There are absolutely no "results in real life society" that have demonstrated an adverse effect of same-sex marriage upon the society as a whole. This is a blatant lie fabricated from no substance at all. It is mindless fundamentalist hokum, made up on the spur of the moment; and is vicious and totally mean-spirited Christian crap! Absolutely typical religious malevolence! "Christian charity" indeed!

Your stupid hypocritical bigotry is obnoxious!
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ThorGoLucky
Snuggle Wolf

USA
1461 Posts

Posted - 01/08/2010 :  12:09:40   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit ThorGoLucky's Homepage Send ThorGoLucky a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I still might find that special someone, whether a guy or a gal, and we may well want to "tie the knot". I'm saddened and frustrated that this is still even an issue.



I think government should not be involved in marriage at all, just civil unions, and leave the marriage/ceremoniousness up to the individuals and their family, friends and private institutions.
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 01/08/2010 :  13:42:16   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Interesting, NJ might have shot down gay marriage but the heavily Catholic Portugal seems good with it.
Portugal approves same-sex marriage
by Joe Sudbay (DC) on 1/08/2010 12:33:00 PM
Here's some good news.

Portugal's Parliament voted to approve same-sex marriage today.

In a country that is 84% Catholic, the Bishops don't run the legislature. Unfortunately, that is not the case for the U.S. Congress or the New Jersey State Senate, among other legislative bodies.

When, if ever, I wonder, will our country emerge from the dismal stone age that the conservatives and the preachers have dragged us back to?




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

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and Crypto-Communist!

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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4954 Posts

Posted - 01/08/2010 :  14:29:43   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Baxter

How well do children develop with same-sex parents? Has there been sufficient research on this?
This is certainly an interesting question, but it would have to be controlled against the fact that there are myriad examples every day of traditional M-F parents producing, well, children who have not (or are not) turned out so well.
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 01/08/2010 :  15:26:18   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Cuneiformist

Originally posted by Baxter

How well do children develop with same-sex parents? Has there been sufficient research on this?
This is certainly an interesting question, but it would have to be controlled against the fact that there are myriad examples every day of traditional M-F parents producing, well, children who have not (or are not) turned out so well.

That wouldn't be my only concern. Being gay or lesbian is still taboo in our culture. That alone can get a child excessively mocked. That said, it's possible that it wouldn't be bad parenting that is the cause for a poor upbringing, but society's bigotry.

And I have no idea how you would ever formulate a study which takes this into account.

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13467 Posts

Posted - 01/08/2010 :  15:29:17   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Cuneiformist

Originally posted by Baxter

How well do children develop with same-sex parents? Has there been sufficient research on this?
This is certainly an interesting question, but it would have to be controlled against the fact that there are myriad examples every day of traditional M-F parents producing, well, children who have not (or are not) turned out so well.

Of course, this is only a sampling of one, but I have a nephew who was brought up by two sets of gay parents. One set of each gender. And he is turning out fine. He's a really cool kid, in fact.

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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