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Rudolfo
Banned
124 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2010 : 14:48:28 [Permalink]
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[It's not being presented as evidence. You imagined that it was evidence,]
I never realized how difficult and confusing a word evidence is. Let's analyze the picture from the beginning.
Do you believe that the photo shows people on their way to a gas chamber? Yes or no? But, I don't think you'll like the consequences if you answer 'yes'. LOL.
[Because the physical evidence isn't the whole story, and you know it. So does Van Pelt.]
We agree on something.
* Why should more evidence be required for the Holocaust than is required for the historicity of George Washington?
????? There is no basis for this question.
* What does a picture of a battleship prove? Where is there any physical evidence that the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor? What is it about the evidence at Pearl Harbor that makes it substantially different from the evidence for the Holocaust?
At this point I have no idea what you mean by evidence. I don't think you have any idea. Instead you give it any meaning you like. There is a memorial that is built on the wreckage of a ship, I'd call that physical evidence of the Pearl Harbor attack. What would you call it ? LOL. There is no physical evidence for the Holocaust.
* Why should we think that such photos are necessarily from Dachau or Belsen? Are you suggesting that because there are photos of smiling prisoners in prison camps greeting their liberators, that millions did not die in total?
I am stating that pictures of healthy smiling Jewish prisoners in camps at the end of the war directly contradicts the holocaust narrative, that the Nazis attempted to exterminate European Jews. I've now answered that 'question' three times at least.
* Who is presenting the gas chamber at Auschwitz as "evidence?" Why does a window disprove that a room was a gas chamber?
Again that word ! LOL. Evidence. We'll get to the window, with photo, in the gas chamber thread and I'll explain what the Majdanek gas chamber really is.
[So? What happened to the 50,000 Russian POWs housed at Belsen?]
I don't know, as to the percentages of the prisoners, I just have the data I linked to.
Tomorrow, I start a testimony thread. |
| Edited by - Rudolfo on 03/24/2010 14:57:44 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 03/24/2010 : 15:28:48 [Permalink]
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In the '50s I visited Auschwitz and have seen the crematoria and gas chambers first hand. The German guide that took me and my ship mates trough explained the process as we went. It was a very interesting tour, albeit a bit ghastly.
I do not recall if there was a window in the chamber, but I'd think there would be. How else might the Nazis know if their roast was marinated and ready to cook?
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Rudolfo
Banned
124 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2010 : 15:46:22 [Permalink]
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[In the '50s I visited Auschwitz and have seen the crematoria and gas chambers first hand. ]
Do you remember the chutes in the ceiling where the Zyklon pellets were thrown into the room?
Those chutes were added by the Soviets after the war. Nice touch, ay ?
There is a window, a large one. As well as unsealed doors.
You can revisit Auschwitz and the gas chamber by watching the video at ...
http://www.vho.org/GB/c/DC/gcgvcole.html
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2010 : 15:55:12 [Permalink]
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Rudolfo:
At this point I have no idea what you mean by evidence. I don't think you have any idea. Instead you give it any meaning you like. There is a memorial that is built on the wreckage of a ship, I'd call that physical evidence of the Pearl Harbor attack. |
Great! Than here is physical evidence for the murder of over a million Jews and Auschwitz.
Oh, and yes, I noticed that you are ignoring my last post to you. I wonder why?
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2010 : 16:46:31 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Rudolfo
[In the '50s I visited Auschwitz and have seen the crematoria and gas chambers first hand. ]
Do you remember the chutes in the ceiling where the Zyklon pellets were thrown into the room?
Those chutes were added by the Soviets after the war. Nice touch, ay ?There is a window, a large one. As well as unsealed doors.
You can revisit Auschwitz and the gas chamber by watching the video at ...
http://www.vho.org/GB/c/DC/gcgvcole.html
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Can you document that?
Zyklon-B, AKA Cyclone-B, has an interesting history invented in the early '20s as a pesticide, it was mainly Prussic acid (cyanide) with a stabilizer and an added scenting agent.
"[edit] Use by Nazi Germany
See also: The Holocaust
Zyklon B was used by Nazi Germany to poison prisoners in the gas chambers of their network of extermination camps throughout Europe. Zyklon B was used at Auschwitz Birkenau, Majdanek, Sachsenhausen and one of the Operation Reinhard camps. At the other extermination camps, Carbon monoxide from engine exhaust was used in the gas chambers or mobile gas vans. Most of the victims were Jews and the Zyklon B gas became a central symbol of the Holocaust.
Zyklon B was used in the concentration camps initially for delousing to control typhus. The chemical used in the gas chambers was deliberately made without the warning odorant.[6]
In January or February 1940, 250 Gypsy children from Brno in the Buchenwald concentration camp were used as guinea pigs for testing the Zyklon B gas.[7] On September 3, 1941, around 600 Soviet prisoners of war and 250 sick Polish prisoners were gassed with Zyklon B at Auschwitz camp I; this was the first experiment with the gas at Auschwitz. The experiments lasted more than 20 hours.
According to Rudolf Höss, commandant of Auschwitz, bunker 1 held 800 people, and bunker 2 held 1,200. Once the chamber was full, the doors were screwed shut and solid pellets of Zyklon B were dropped into the chambers through vents in the side walls, releasing the cyanide gas. Those inside died within 20 minutes; the speed of death depended on how close the inmate was standing to a gas vent, according to Höss, who estimated that about one third of the victims died immediately.[9][10] Johann Kremer, an SS doctor who oversaw the gassings, testified that: "Shouting and screaming of the victims could be heard through the opening and it was clear that they fought for their lives."[11] When they were removed, if the chamber had been very congested, as they often were, the victims were found half-squatting, their skin colored pink with red and green spots, some foaming at the mouth or bleeding from the ears.[10]"
In the late '90s, as the paragraph below this points out, the barracks, de-lousing stations, and the chambers were all tested for cyanide residue. Such residue was found but none of it was in the barracks. Draw your own conclusions....
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26021 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2010 : 17:29:33 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Rudolfo
I never realized how difficult and confusing a word evidence is. |
Obviously, you don't seem to have a good grasp on the concept.Let's analyze the picture from the beginning.
Do you believe that the photo shows people on their way to a gas chamber? Yes or no? But, I don't think you'll like the consequences if you answer 'yes'. LOL. |
Why should I answer to such a false dichotomy? The answer is that since the photo isn't being offered as evidence that the Holocaust occurred, then whatever it allegedly shows is irrelevant to the question you want answered.[Because the physical evidence isn't the whole story, and you know it. So does Van Pelt.]
We agree on something. |
Yay!* Why should more evidence be required for the Holocaust than is required for the historicity of George Washington?
????? There is no basis for this question. |
Again, it goes to what you consider to be evidence. We don't even have photos of George Washington. Just a bunch of paintings that people claim are of him. Did George Washington exist? What evidence can we use to determine the answer? Are you holding the Holocaust to a different standard of evidence than you would the historicity of George Washington?| At this point I have no idea what you mean by evidence. I don't think you have any idea. Instead you give it any meaning you like. |
No, it seems that you are projecting onto me your own failures of logic.| There is a memorial that is built on the wreckage of a ship, I'd call that physical evidence of the Pearl Harbor attack. What would you call it ? LOL. |
If a memorial built over the wreckage of a ship is evidence of a surprise attack by the Japanese, then memorials built over the wreckage of concentration camps must be considered to be evidence of the Holocaust. You are holding the "Holocaust narrative" to a different standard.| There is no physical evidence for the Holocaust. |
So you're contradicting yourself again.| * Why should we think that such photos are necessarily from Dachau or Belsen? |
You failed to answer this question again.Are you suggesting that because there are photos of smiling prisoners in prison camps greeting their liberators, that millions did not die in total?
I am stating that pictures of healthy smiling Jewish prisoners... |
Whoa. Back the truck up. How can you tell that they are Jews?| ...in camps at the end of the war directly contradicts the holocaust narrative, that the Nazis attempted to exterminate European Jews. |
That only logically follows if by "attempted to exterminate" is synonymous with "utterly exterminated." The attempt failed, Rudolfo. There were survivors. There were lots of survivors at the concentration camps, especially, since they weren't extermination camps. In other words, it appears that you are clutching at a straw-man version of the "Holocaust narrative" in which you think that the narrative claims that all of the European Jews died, and not just millions of them. Attempted murder is not murder.| I've now answered that 'question' three times at least. |
But since your answers are logically bad, and then you claim "it's just a fact," the question needs to be re-asked and re-asked again. You haven't supported your assertion with evidence or logical argument.* Who is presenting the gas chamber at Auschwitz as "evidence?" Why does a window disprove that a room was a gas chamber?
Again that word ! LOL. Evidence. |
Yes, it's an important concept, which I hope you will understand, soon.| We'll get to the window, with photo, in the gas chamber thread and I'll explain what the Majdanek gas chamber really is. |
Promises, promises.[So? What happened to the 50,000 Russian POWs housed at Belsen?]
I don't know, as to the percentages of the prisoners, I just have the data I linked to. |
Well, that's a pathetically small amount of data. I was able to find plenty more with a simple Google search or two.| Tomorrow, I start a testimony thread. |
More promises. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 03/24/2010 : 17:50:08 [Permalink]
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Hey, lookit what I found! Seem a little familiar?
Myth/Fact Sheets
Auschwitz and Gas Chambers Crematory Capacity Anne Frank Kristallnacht Dresden Gerstein Report Gas Vans Mass Graves Diesel Exhaust Mass Incineration |
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2010 : 18:31:01 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
Hey, lookit what I found! Seem a little familiar?
Myth/Fact Sheets
Auschwitz and Gas Chambers Crematory Capacity Anne Frank Kristallnacht Dresden Gerstein Report Gas Vans Mass Graves Diesel Exhaust Mass Incineration |
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That's a very powerful resource, Filthy. |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26021 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2010 : 19:00:55 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Rudolfo
We'll get to the window, with photo, in the gas chamber thread and I'll explain what the Majdanek gas chamber really is. |
I can't wait.
But if your answer is "a delousing station," I'm going to be disappointed.
By the way, you appear to be doing a lot more telling than listening. In terms of a skeptic discussion, this is a bad thing. If you're going to treat this as a high-school debate, then we can run circles around you with references and prose. If you're really interested in a skeptical examination of the evidence for the Holocaust, then you're going to have to change your attitude (you know, the one which says, "there is no evidence"). |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Rudolfo
Banned
124 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2010 : 05:39:07 [Permalink]
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[Great! Than here is physical evidence for the murder of over a million Jews and Auschwitz.]
I wondered when I wrote the sentence if anyone would stoop to the stupidity of interpreting it to mean that the monument was the evidence. There is my answer. The wreck is the evidence.
[Oh, and yes, I noticed that you are ignoring my last post to you. I wonder why?]
I wanted to ignore it because I'm dealing with such idiocy that exerting any effort at presenting info seems useless, and I didn't know the answer. Yet, I should have known the answer, so I googled a bit and got a little info which I presented in a subsequent post. You should pay more attention.
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| Edited by - Rudolfo on 03/25/2010 05:39:54 |
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Rudolfo
Banned
124 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2010 : 05:53:18 [Permalink]
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[Why should I answer to such a false dichotomy? ]
LOL. The debate with Dave W. has reached the level of pure unadulterated nonsense. |
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Fripp
SFN Regular
USA
727 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2010 : 05:55:50 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Rudolfo
The debate with Dave W. has reached the level of pure unadulterated nonsense.
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Wow, is that ever a case of the pot calling the kettle black. |
"What the hell is an Aluminum Falcon?"
"Oh, I'm sorry. I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a small thermal exhaust port that's only 2-meters wide! That thing wasn't even fully paid off yet! You have any idea what this is going to do to my credit?!?!"
"What? Oh, oh, 'just rebuild it'? Oh, real [bleep]ing original. And who's gonna give me a loan, jackhole? You? You got an ATM on that torso LiteBrite?" |
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Rudolfo
Banned
124 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2010 : 05:58:26 [Permalink]
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[Can you document that?]
Yes, of course, and I did. If you watch the video linked, it contains an interview with the director of the Auschwitz museum who admits that the Russians added the chutes.
http://www.vho.org/GB/c/DC/gcgvcole.html
Now, having seen the video, are you skeptical that the room you were shown was really a 'homicidal gas chamber'?
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26021 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2010 : 05:58:55 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Rudolfo
I wondered when I wrote the sentence if anyone would stoop to the stupidity of interpreting it to mean that the monument was the evidence. |
No, you said that the sunken ship with a memorial over it was the evidence. Kil provided a memorial over top of an artifact of Nazi brutality.| There is my answer. The wreck is the evidence. |
So you're saying that anywhere we find a sunken ship, we should deduce that the Japanese sank it in a surprise attack? Like this one? How about this one?
Even if not, if the wrecked ship is itself evidence for the Pearl Harbor attack, then the wrecked (and sometimes not-so-wrecked) Nazi camps are themselves evidence for the Holocaust. After all, the USS Arizona wasn't even a part of the Japanese attack, it was just a victim. The camps were actually perpetrators.| ...I'm dealing with such idiocy... |
Now, now. You wanted to keep it civil. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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What is the physical evidence for the holocaust?
