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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
 Posted - 10/04/2010 : 05:23:15 [Permalink]
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| Originally posted by Hawks |
| The truth is that not a single one of us knows that our beliefs are truth. |
That is just your belief which, |
And that is just your belief.
| by your own admission, you don't know is true. |
Your exactly right and finally starting to catch on here. I believe I know what it true but I don't know what is true. Same is said for you. Unless you do believe that you know what is true, in which case we will have to disagree as I know that you do not know.
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"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2010 : 06:05:39 [Permalink]
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| Originally posted by moakley |
| What's silly to me is your conflating the results of this poll with the god vs no god debate. The results of the poll simply showed that atheists/agnostics were, on average, able to answer more questions correctly. |
And that was exactly my point. You have just slightly won a survey on world religions. Bravo, yippee!!!! And then I also go on to point out that in the realm of the entire cosmos and all that there is to know your #1 prize is akin to winning the Grand Canyon long jump contest. Sure your #1 but you will soon join the others at the bottom of the canyon.
| As far as any truth to be established in the god vs no god debate is concerned that, as you have heard many times before, is more your burden than ours. |
My burden? We already have the very creation itself. It's your burden to explain the existence of the creation apart from the creator. Who, other then the creator, brought into existents a creation which previously did not exist?
| And to suggest that we will not know until we die suggest that we will know something after we die, implying that you are likely right and that we should fear the likelihood of hell. |
You came to your conclusions as I am not implying anything. I am only stating the obvious. If a infinite creator was the first cause for the creation we see before us then it is rather plausible that an existence in his eternity is quite possible and also that if the entire creation can be explained away with natural and materialist explanations then it is also quite possible that once our physical existence has expired then our complete identity also no longer exists. Whether this reminds you of hell or not is irrelevant. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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| Edited by - Bill scott on 10/04/2010 06:09:10 |
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chefcrsh
Skeptic Friend
Hong Kong
380 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2010 : 06:06:03 [Permalink]
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| Postmodernism? |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2010 : 06:25:09 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by chefcrsh
Postmodernism?
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Your making this much more difficult then it really is. See you might believe that your atheistic philosophy is truth but the reality is you do not know this. For the sake of argument, and because you know that you have to, you might acknowledge this but in your own reality you have such faith in your belief that you believe it might as well be labeled empirical, even though it is not. So in your mind when you are debating the God vs. no god debate the no god position, which you take, is an empirical truth when the reality is, which I am reminding of, it is not. It's just your belief. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Ebone4rock
SFN Regular
USA
894 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2010 : 06:36:44 [Permalink]
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| originally posted by Bill Scott |
| See you might believe that your atheistic philosophy is truth but the reality is you do not know this. |
Bill, now you are getting into a nonsensical argument. How do we know what we think of as reality is really real? Maybe it is all in our imagination! Maybe this is all just a dream! Maybe........
Nonsense.
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Haole with heart, thats all I'll ever be. I'm not a part of the North Shore society. Stuck on the shoulder, that's where you'll find me. Digging for scraps with the kooks in line. -Offspring |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2010 : 07:08:00 [Permalink]
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| Originally posted by Ebone4rock |
| Bill, now you are getting into a nonsensical argument. How do we know what we think of as reality is really real? |
Well first off what you think of reality is irrelevant to that reality. It is what it is regardless of what you think. And second you do not know what the reality is as far as God vs. no god. You have a belief on what you think reality really is but this is much much different then knowing what reality is and the truth is you do not know, no matter how much faith you have in your belief. I am sorry that you will not know while in this physical existence but that is just the reality of it all, regardless of what you think about it.
Maybe it is all in our imagination! Maybe this is all just a dream! Maybe........
Nonsense. |
Well I am trying to stay on one tangent here. As far as the reality of God vs. no god, at least in this physical existence, you will not know the reality of this debate. Right now it is all a faith in your beliefs. Now after our physical existence expires here on this earth will we then know? Well it is my belief that the answer is yes but, I will acknowledge, I do not know this.
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"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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chefcrsh
Skeptic Friend
Hong Kong
380 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2010 : 07:11:21 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
Originally posted by chefcrsh
Postmodernism?
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Your making this much more difficult then it really is. See you might believe that your atheistic philosophy is truth but the reality is you do not know this. F
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You would make this less difficult if you would know who you are discussing things with and not make asshat assumptions.
I have never claimed to have an atheistic philosophy (whatever the hell that is anyway).
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2010 : 07:30:06 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by chefcrsh
You would make this less difficult if you would know who you are discussing things with and not make asshat assumptions.
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I see your point and I apologize for my assumption. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2010 : 07:41:27 [Permalink]
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Bill:
Well it is my belief that the answer is yes but, I will acknowledge, I do not know this. |
So you would agree that knowledge of the existence of God is actually unknowable? |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2010 : 08:01:14 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
Day and night and night and day the very creation itself testifies on behalf of the creator . |
That argument assumes its conclusion. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2010 : 08:03:18 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
And here is where kil was trying to point out your short sightedness, Dave. You have just won the Grand Canyon long jump contest. Congratulations, Dave, you are #1. Just what you have always wanted, to be #1. Puff out that chest and beat on it for us. Now go pick up your #1 prize at the bottom of the canyon. |
So you're saying that simply quizzing people on their religious knowledge is analogous to suicide.
I really don't get that at all.
Your "slow sprint" analogy was much better. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2010 : 08:06:08 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
My burden? We already have the very creation itself. It's your burden to explain the existence of the creation apart from the creator. |
Where is evidence for a creator?| Who, other then the creator, brought into existents a creation which previously did not exist? |
Assumes that creation requires a "who." Does this alleged creator direct every oak to grow from an acorn? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2010 : 08:31:16 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
Bill:
Well it is my belief that the answer is yes but, I will acknowledge, I do not know this. |
So you would agree that knowledge of the existence of God is actually unknowable?
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I would agree, that in our current finite state of being, for many reasons I can believe that God exists, but I cannot know that he exists in empirical terms, just as you might, for many reason, believe that a natural and completely materialistic explanation can be given for the creation we see before us even though this belief you have is actually unknowable as well.
As far as the God vs. no god debate we both have and are arguing for a belief that is actually unknowable, at least in this finite physical existence that we are currently in. Now here is where I go a tad farther. It is my belief that if this is a completely 100% materialistic cosmos and reality then we will never know the reality of this unknowable existence for at the end of our materialistic existence all ceases to exist, including any self-identity that we may have had during our physical realm here. While I also believe that if a infinite creator is the first cause then we will have an existence beyond our physical world and at that point we would know the previously unknowable. However I fully admit that this my belief and I do not know this empirically. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2010 : 08:48:08 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
No it is a conclusion drawn from the lack of reliable evidence there is a God in the first place. |
And that is simply your belief. And a lack of reliable evidence? Day and night and night and day the very creation itself testifies on behalf of the creator .
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LMFAO!
You didn't even finished readin my post!
DOUBLE FAIL!
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2010 : 08:51:17 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by Bill scott
And here is where kil was trying to point out your short sightedness, Dave. You have just won the Grand Canyon long jump contest. Congratulations, Dave, you are #1. Just what you have always wanted, to be #1. Puff out that chest and beat on it for us. Now go pick up your #1 prize at the bottom of the canyon. |
So you're saying that simply quizzing people on their religious knowledge is analogous to suicide.
I really don't get that at all.
Your "slow sprint" analogy was much better.
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Suicide huh? That was a perspective I had not thought of. But anyway let me help you out here. You beat on your chest and jumped up and down "We are #1, we are #1, we are #1" when it came to scoring on the survey of world religions. I simply put a little perspective of my own on this for you. You see your bragging about being #1 in what amounts to winning a long jump contest over the Grand Canyon. The short sightedness says "I am #1, I am #1, I am #1" while the long term visionary has to ask, what did you really win?
So sure the atheist might have scored a little higher on some world religion survey, but in the big picture of the God vs. no god debate and knowing all that there is to know in the comos and beyond, who fricking cares? Go collect your #1 ribbon at the bottom of the canyon where everybody is at. That #1 ribbon and $0.50 will get you a nice cup of coffee.
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"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Atheists and agnostics are #1
