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 Climate change: science answers the deniers
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 11/09/2010 :  04:55:20  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
And damned well high time, too.
Hundreds of US scientists are joining a mass effort to speak out on climate change, experts said Monday after skeptics gained political ground with last week's Republican gains in Congress.

The moves signals a bold approach by scientists, typically reluctant to get involved in policy debates, as US President Barack Obama's efforts to set stricter penalties for polluters face near-certain defeat in the legislature.

Scientists involved insisted the mobilization was not in direct response to conservative gains in power and did not aim to influence public policy, but would offer the opportunity to present the facts when needed.

"Facts are stupid things." Not sure, but I think that the late Ronald Reagan said that in one of his more lucid moments. Anyhow, while I applaud the effort, I doubt that it'll make a lot of difference. The deniers too, believe that facts are stupid and will continue their self-inflicted myopia until they drown in their own sweat. But at least those who want to know will be able to find the information more easily than having to spend hours diggng for it.




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

the_ignored
SFN Addict

2558 Posts

Posted - 11/09/2010 :  05:35:06   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send the_ignored a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Creationists suffer from that too; Sarfati took a shot or too at global warming during his little speech, I remember.

>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.

What brought that on? this. Original posting here.

Another example of this guy's lunacy here.
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 11/09/2010 :  08:00:01   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by the_ignored

Creationists suffer from that too; Sarfati took a shot or too at global warming during his little speech, I remember.

The movie, Avatar has a neat, aboriginal word: "Scoun." It means "moron" and fits Sarfati like it was tattooed on him.




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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sailingsoul
SFN Addict

2830 Posts

Posted - 11/09/2010 :  14:30:14   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send sailingsoul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by filthy

And damned well
"Facts are stupid things." Not sure, but I think that the late Ronald Reagan said that in one of his more lucid moments. Anyhow, while I applaud the effort, I doubt that it'll make a lot of difference. The deniers too, believe that facts are stupid and will continue their self-inflicted myopia until they drown in their own sweat. But at least those who want to know will be able to find the information more easily than having to spend hours diggng for it.





Of course Bush Loved denying the facts and science on global warming . As is evident in his TV address here. SS

There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS
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the_ignored
SFN Addict

2558 Posts

Posted - 11/10/2010 :  05:37:43   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send the_ignored a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hah. Did anyone think that this would have any effect on the denialists other than to further cement their views?

The ineptness of their strategy is visible in their choice to not only abandon their home turf, but attack the very individuals who are presently providing them with most of their funding. I'm delighted to see it, of course, because it is obvous that their so-called science isn't actually scientific and this attempt to is only going to lead to more scrutiny and less funding of the global warming gravy train.

>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.

What brought that on? this. Original posting here.

Another example of this guy's lunacy here.
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Bill scott
SFN Addict

USA
2103 Posts

Posted - 11/10/2010 :  08:03:59   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Bill scott a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by sailingsoul SS



global warming


Dude the buzz word has been changed from global warming to climate change. Didn't you pick up on that a few years back? Global warming was proved to be to inclusive. Under this one size fits all banner virtually anything can be pointed to as evidence for climate change. A colder then average summer is now evidence for climate change. A warmer then average summer is now evidence for climate change. Wetter then average winter and that can be chalked up to climate change. Above average hurricane season is evidence for climate change. Below average hurricane season and, yep, you guessed it, evidence for climate change.

The current economic recession is even evidence for climate change.

"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-

"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-

The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-

Edited by - Bill scott on 11/10/2010 08:05:46
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26012 Posts

Posted - 11/10/2010 :  08:09:27   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Bill scott

Dude the buzz word has been changed from global warming to climate change. Didn't you pick up on that a few years back?
By Republican spin-doctors who thought the phrase "global warming" was too scary.
A colder then average summer is now evidence for climate change.
Says who?
Wetter then average winter and that can be chalked up to climate change.
Says who?
Below average hurricane season and, yep, you guessed it, evidence for climate change.
Says who?
The current economic recession is even evidence for climate change.
Says who?

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9677 Posts

Posted - 11/10/2010 :  08:20:18   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Bill scott
Dude the buzz word has been changed from global warming to climate change.
Yes. It was changed because idiots believed that "global warming" mean a uniform increase in temperature all across the globe simultaneously.
Since the world is more complex than that, they saw some places actually getting colder, thus believing that "global warming" was refuted.

To avoid idiots from misunderstanding, "global warming" was changed to "climate change". The basic principle remains the same: the average global temperature over time is increasing.



Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
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Bill scott
SFN Addict

USA
2103 Posts

Posted - 11/10/2010 :  08:37:22   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Bill scott a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse

Originally posted by Bill scott
Dude the buzz word has been changed from global warming to climate change.
Yes. It was changed because idiots believed that "global warming" mean a uniform increase in temperature all across the globe simultaneously.
Since the world is more complex than that, they saw some places actually getting colder, thus believing that "global warming" was refuted.

To avoid idiots from misunderstanding, "global warming" was changed to "climate change". The basic principle remains the same: the average global temperature over time is increasing.







Yeah, first it was the killer bees that were going to get me. Then next it was global warming and now it is climate change. But the good news is we can all be saved if we give enough money to the Al Gore fund and buy enough Raid. Nice try Chicken Little.

"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-

"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-

The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-

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Bill scott
SFN Addict

USA
2103 Posts

Posted - 11/10/2010 :  08:44:33   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Bill scott a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dave W.



By Republican spin-doctors who thought the phrase "global warming" was too scary.


But we want it to sound scary. Fear motivates, as displayed by Fox News. The fear of global warming might prompt those to action who might not act otherwise if they think they are only facing the inconvenience of climate change. People usually get off their duffs if they believe the sky is falling vs. just some inconvenience.

"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-

"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-

The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-

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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26012 Posts

Posted - 11/10/2010 :  08:58:07   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Bill scott

Originally posted by Dave W.
By Republican spin-doctors who thought the phrase "global warming" was too scary.
But we want it to sound scary. Fear motivates, as displayed by Fox News. The fear of global warming might prompt those to action who might not act otherwise if they think they are only facing the inconvenience of climate change. People usually get off their duffs if they believe the sky is falling vs. just some inconvenience.
And that's exactly why Republicans want it to sound less scary: so the oil companies will keep dumping money into their re-election campaigns.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Ebone4rock
SFN Regular

USA
894 Posts

Posted - 11/10/2010 :  09:01:27   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Ebone4rock a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Here's a thought....of course polluting the environment has to stop and regulating the pollutants people produce is a good thing...but has there been any thought about putting a strategy together for evacuating coastal cities and setting up places to put all of these displaced people? New York, New Orleans, Miami, L.A., and all of the coastal cities will be wiped out some day. It's going to happen, it's inevitable whether you think humans are creating climate change or not. I hear absolutely nothing about any kind of plan for this.....or have I missed something?

Haole with heart, thats all I'll ever be. I'm not a part of the North Shore society. Stuck on the shoulder, that's where you'll find me. Digging for scraps with the kooks in line. -Offspring
Edited by - Ebone4rock on 11/10/2010 09:10:04
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13467 Posts

Posted - 11/10/2010 :  09:30:23   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Bill scott

Originally posted by sailingsoul SS



global warming


Dude the buzz word has been changed from global warming to climate change. Didn't you pick up on that a few years back? Global warming was proved to be to inclusive. Under this one size fits all banner virtually anything can be pointed to as evidence for climate change. A colder then average summer is now evidence for climate change. A warmer then average summer is now evidence for climate change. Wetter then average winter and that can be chalked up to climate change. Above average hurricane season is evidence for climate change. Below average hurricane season and, yep, you guessed it, evidence for climate change.

The current economic recession is even evidence for climate change.
The idea that local events are not the same as world wide temperature increases and so on has been explained to you so many times that really, you can't be so dense as to think we wouldn't notice the strawman you have built here. That you don't understand global warming, let alone AGW at this point has to be considered willful on your part. You could argue against the actual concept but you choose to make it something that it isn't. Just like creationists do when discussing transitional fossils. Oh wait... You do that too...


Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Bill scott
SFN Addict

USA
2103 Posts

Posted - 11/10/2010 :  09:32:14   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Bill scott a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dave W.




And that's exactly why Republicans want it to sound less scary: so the oil companies will keep dumping money into their re-election campaigns.


But let us not forget about all the money big oil gives to Obama and the dems. Heck the last presidential election cycle Obama took more money from big oil then did the republican. So you can see how this sends a mixed message to the folks when Obama says because of global warming and now climate change our sky is falling and so now we must enact my cap and trade legislation all while at the same time he is cashing checks left and right from big oil. Heck BO had it made last cycle. He accused John McCain of being in the pocket of big oil and that accusation stuck with all the folks who didn't know any better all while in reality he raked in more money then McCain from big oil. Talk about about having your cake and eating it to.



While the BP oil geyser pumps millions of gallons of petroleum into the Gulf of Mexico, President Barack Obama and members of Congress may have to answer for the millions in campaign contributions they’ve taken from the oil and gas giant over the years.

BP and its employees have given more than $3.5 million to federal candidates over the past 20 years, with the largest chunk of their money going to Obama, according to the Center for Responsive Politics.


http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0510/36783.html


In the ad, Obama says, "I'm Barack Obama, and I don't take money from oil companies or lobbyists, and I won't let them block change any more."

Obama has taken $213,884 from the oil and gas industry as of Feb. 29th, according to the Center for Responsive Politics.


http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2008/03/28/4431825-fact-check-obama-and-oil



obamas-taken-more-money-from-major-oil-company-employees-than-mccain

http://hotair.com/archives/2008/08/07/surprise-obamas-taken-more-money-from-major-oil-company-employees-than-mccain/


Sen. Barack Obama continued accepting donations from oil company executives and employees last month even as he aired ads in which he stated he took no oil company money, his campaign finance reports show.

Obama has taken at least $263,000 from oil company executives, family members and employees since entering the presidential race last year, including $46,000 last month. At least $140,000 has come in chunks of between $1,000 and $2,300, the maximum permitted under federal law.


http://articles.latimes.com/2008/apr/24/nation/na-money24





"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-

"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-

The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-

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Bill scott
SFN Addict

USA
2103 Posts

Posted - 11/10/2010 :  09:47:53   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Bill scott a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Kil

Originally posted by Bill scott

Originally posted by sailingsoul SS



global warming


Dude the buzz word has been changed from global warming to climate change. Didn't you pick up on that a few years back? Global warming was proved to be to inclusive. Under this one size fits all banner virtually anything can be pointed to as evidence for climate change. A colder then average summer is now evidence for climate change. A warmer then average summer is now evidence for climate change. Wetter then average winter and that can be chalked up to climate change. Above average hurricane season is evidence for climate change. Below average hurricane season and, yep, you guessed it, evidence for climate change.

The current economic recession is even evidence for climate change.
The idea that local events are not the same as world wide temperature increases and so on has been explained to you so many times that really, you can't be so dense as to think we wouldn't notice the strawman you have built here. That you don't understand global warming, let alone AGW at this point has to be considered willful on your part. You could argue against the actual concept but you choose to make it something that it isn't. Just like creationists do when discussing transitional fossils. Oh wait... You do that too...




But yet we got an oil guy in the white house. The guy says he is going to tax their windfall profits in the election and during the gulf oil spill he says he is putting a boot to their neck. All while this guy has taken the lion's share of "donations" that BP has dived out over the years?!?!?!?!?! A true conflict of interest if there ever was one.

"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-

"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-

The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-

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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26012 Posts

Posted - 11/10/2010 :  10:49:31   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Bill scott

But let us not forget about all the money big oil gives to Obama and the dems. Heck the last presidential election cycle Obama took more money from big oil then did the republican.
Well, nobody here ever said that Obama wasn't a corporatist.
So you can see how this sends a mixed message to the folks when Obama says because of global warming and now climate change our sky is falling and so now we must enact my cap and trade legislation all while at the same time he is cashing checks left and right from big oil.
I don't see any more mixed messages from him than from any other government hack. He talks about doing something, but it doesn't really wind up happening. The big cap-and-trade bill squeaked by the House 219-212-3 (44 Dems against and 8 Reps for), and has been sitting on the Senate calendar since July, 2009. Seems dead to me.

Of course, one shouldn't be looking to politicians for guidance on scientific matters, anyway. That people do so, like yourself, just means they (and you) aren't particularly wise.

Now, when will you be supporting the statements of yours that I asked you to support?

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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