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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2011 : 14:38:34 [Permalink]
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Bill scott.....
| I believe I'll have another peice of pie. |
He that giveth, receiveth.
It is more blessed to. |
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Hawks
SFN Regular
Canada
1383 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2011 : 16:43:34 [Permalink]
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| My condolences, Dave. |
METHINKS IT IS LIKE A WEASEL
It's a small, off-duty czechoslovakian traffic warden! |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
 Posted - 02/07/2011 : 17:48:26 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
Originally posted by Dave W.
I met William Scanlon Murphy yesterday. |
Sorry to hear about the lose of your dad, Dave. My condolences to you and your family. |
Thanks, but that's an odd bit to quote and then not comment on.| Just out of curiosity what are your beliefs concerning the passing of your dad? Is it your belief that at the death of his body that his entire identity and memory of this life was completely eliminated as well and, other then in the memory of a few relatives and friends still alive here on earth, it is as if he never existed at all? If not then what happened to him or his identity? Does his identity somehow carry on? Will anything be left so that he will be aware of his existence and the time he spent here on earth or again once the body is deceased does all identity and self-awareness of one's own existence go with it into the grave? Yes nobody knows for sure but surly you must have some beliefs, or at the least some thoughts of what might happen. I am just curios as to what someone who holds your beliefs thinks happens to their loved ones at this point in the journey of life. |
The utter lack of evidence for any sort of existence after death, despite decades of trying, leads one to the inevitable (but tentative) conclusion that there is no such thing, at least for all practical intents and purposes of the still-living.
But you knew this about me already, so why ask? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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R.Wreck
SFN Regular
USA
1191 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2011 : 20:02:56 [Permalink]
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| My condolences, Dave. I hope you and your family are doing OK. |
The foundation of morality is to . . . give up pretending to believe that for which there is no evidence, and repeating unintelligible propositions about things beyond the possibliities of knowledge.
T. H. Huxley
The Cattle Prod of Enlightened Compassion
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2011 : 21:07:45 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
But you knew this about me already, so why ask?
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I can only guess that it's because he hopes grief has momentarily overcome your rational faculties and you'll give a different answer.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2011 : 21:49:05 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by H. Humbert
I can only guess that it's because he hopes grief has momentarily overcome your rational faculties and you'll give a different answer. |
So far, I've only had momentary tense confusions - saying "dad is" instead of "dad was," for example - which were quickly self-corrected. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2011 : 22:34:26 [Permalink]
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Dave_W, sorry to hear about your dad.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2011 : 06:16:31 [Permalink]
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My condolences Dave.
In regard to Billscott's question I believe I'll stick with what Carl Sagan said in Demon Haunted World about the death of his parents and how he remembers them.
My father in the weeks prior to his death was about as talkative and friendly as I can ever remember. I found out more then than I ever did in the decades prior to time.
Take care, Mike... |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2011 : 09:09:34 [Permalink]
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| Originally posted by Dave W. |
| The utter lack of evidence for any sort of existence after death, despite decades of trying, leads one to the inevitable (but tentative) conclusion that there is no such thing, |
Exactly. And so if true ultimately his life is rendered meaningless. All he did or did not do, whether for good or for bad, all was done in vain.
So while the theist might say "From God you came and to God you shall return" the materialist may say "From nothingness you came and to nothingness you shall return", which leaves all in the middle of the nothingness rendered as meaningless.
| at least for all practical intents and purposes of the still-living. |
I am asking for all practical intents and purposes of the deceased. And according to you there is no evidence that any self-awareness or self-identity remains for the deceased at the death of the body.
| But you knew this about me already, so why ask? |
I am just trying to figure out your logic here. I mean on the one hand you fully acknowledge that it is your belief that there is a high degree of probability that at the moment of death of the body all other forms of self-identity and self-awareness ceases to exist for that individual, and this would be true for all forms of life. But yet then on the other hand you want to debate with me for 12 pages when I say that if your belief is true then all life is ultimately rendered meaningless????
If all life to ever walk the planet Earth ultimately ends up in nothingness then ultimately all life ends up meaningless, period. Any token meaning that you care to tack on to your life while you are alive, Dave, is ultimately going to end in nothingness, which renders all meaningless.
I mean come on, Dave, who is fooling who here? In the materialistic/naturalistic universe even all of the condolences offered to you on this forum ultimately are rendered as meaningless. Were they offered with good intention? Yes, but ultimately they are meaningless never the less. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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| Edited by - Bill scott on 02/08/2011 11:03:08 |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2011 : 09:13:57 [Permalink]
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Bill "I'm retarded" Scott said:
Exactly. And so if true ultimately his life is rendered meaningless. All he did or did not do, whether for good or for bad, all was done in vain.
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Only in your sad, patheteic, and warped mind (if it can even be said you have a mind...)
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Ebone4rock
SFN Regular
USA
894 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2011 : 09:21:00 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
| Originally posted by Dave W. |
| The utter lack of evidence for any sort of existence after death, despite decades of trying, leads one to the inevitable (but tentative) conclusion that there is no such thing, |
Exactly. And so if true ultimately his life is rendered meaningless. All he did or did not do, whether for good or for bad, all was done in vain.
So while the theist might say "From God you came and to God you shall return" the materialist may say "From nothingness you came and to nothingness you shall return", which leaves all in the middle of the nothingness rendered as meaningless.
| at least for all practical intents and purposes of the still-living. |
I am asking for all practical intents and purposes of the deceased. And according to you there is no evidence that any self-awareness or self-identity remains for the deceased at the death of the body.
| But you knew this about me already, so why ask? |
I am just trying to figure out your logic here. I mean on the one hand you fully acknowledge that it is your belief that there is a high degree of probability that at the moment of death of the body all other forms of self-identity and self-awareness ceases to exist for that individual, and this would be true for all forms of life. But yet then on the other hand you want to debate with me for 12 pages when I say that if your belief is true then all life is ultimately rendered meaningless????
If all life to ever walk the planet Earth ultimately ends up in nothingness then ultimately all life ends up meaningless, period. Any token meaning that you care to tack on to the meaning of your life while you are alive, Dave, is ultimately going to end in nothingness, which renders all meaningless.
I mean come on, Dave, who is fooling who here? In the materialistic/naturalistic universe even all of the condolences offered to you on this forum ultimately are rendered as meaningless. Were they offered with good intention? Yes, but ultimately they are meaningless never the less.
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So Bill, Can we assume that if you didn't have god in your life that you would be a nihilist? |
Haole with heart, thats all I'll ever be. I'm not a part of the North Shore society. Stuck on the shoulder, that's where you'll find me. Digging for scraps with the kooks in line. -Offspring |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2011 : 09:32:26 [Permalink]
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| Originally posted by Ebone4rock |
| So Bill, Can we assume that if you didn't have god in your life that you would be a nihilist? |
I am not sure if I understand your question. But back to the point, any and all life that ends in nothingness is ultimately rendered meaningless. There are no exceptions. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Ebone4rock
SFN Regular
USA
894 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2011 : 09:32:39 [Permalink]
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It also seems Bill that you did not learn anything at all from the exchange that happened on the thread you are referring to.
Is it willfull ignorance or do you simply lack the capacity to understand plain English? |
Haole with heart, thats all I'll ever be. I'm not a part of the North Shore society. Stuck on the shoulder, that's where you'll find me. Digging for scraps with the kooks in line. -Offspring |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2011 : 09:34:03 [Permalink]
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| Originally posted by Dude |
| Exactly. And so if true ultimately his life is rendered meaningless. All he did or did not do, whether for good or for bad, all was done in vain. |
Only in your sad, patheteic, and warped mind (if it can even be said you have a mind...) |
So you decided not to prove my statement false but rather just call me names? Your consistent, I'll give you that.
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"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2011 : 09:44:35 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Ebone4rock
It also seems Bill that you did not learn anything at all from the exchange that happened on the thread you are referring to.
Is it willfull ignorance or do you simply lack the capacity to understand plain English?
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Nothingness equals meaninglessness, every time. Now you can assign meaning to your life all that you want but your life in the materialistic universe is going to end in nothingness, which renders all, including your delusions of self-meaning, as meaningless. No matter how much you want to debate this the facts remain that nothingness renders all meaningless, period. Now if you want to circumvent this fact and continue to try and assign meaning to your life or any other life than knock yourself out. Even that will end in meaninglessness in the materialistic universe. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Wow!
