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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
 Posted - 02/08/2011 : 10:42:10 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Ebone4rock
It also seems Bill that you did not learn anything at all from the exchange that happened on the thread you are referring to.
Is it willfull ignorance or do you simply lack the capacity to understand plain English?
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And yet of all the skeptics here no one could give me an example, even though they tried hard, in the materialistic universe where nothing has meaning. Can you give me just one example in the materialistic universe where nothing has meaning? |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2011 : 11:11:55 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
And yet of all the skeptics here no one could give me an example, even though they tried hard, in the materialistic universe where nothing has meaning. |
Bill, even if everything will eventually end in nothingness, that doesn't mean what's happening right now is meaningless. It just doesn't follow. That's like saying since one day you will be brain dead, you can be considered to be brain dead right now. Should we treat you like you are brain dead, Bill? Or can you understand the concepts of temporal meaning vs. eternal meaning and how you don't need the latter in order to experience the former?
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2011 : 12:29:49 [Permalink]
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| Originally posted by H. Humbert |
| Bill, even if everything will eventually end in nothingness, that doesn't mean what's happening right now is meaningless. It just doesn't follow. |
If follows just as night follows day. Can you give me an example in the materialistic universe where nothing had/has/or ever will have meaning?
| That's like saying since one day you will be brain dead, you can be considered to be brain dead right now. Should we treat you like you are brain dead, Bill? |
It's not like that at all.
| Or can you understand the concepts of temporal meaning vs. eternal meaning and how you don't need the latter in order to experience the former? |
Temporal meaning? So now you are saying that you have assigned "temporal meaning" to your life? No, what you have assigned is a delusional or pseudo meaning to your life. Since all life will end in nothingness all life is rendered meaningless, and this would include any and all temporary meanings that you have attempted to assign to your life.
I have to admit I am a little shocked at how the skeptics on this forum are having such a hard time grasping this cold truth about our reality, if this is a materialistic universe. Rather than just accept the harsh reality of life in the materialistic universe you desperately grasp at straws trying to figure out somehow or someway to assign real meaning to your life, even if it is just a "temporal meaning". Why not just accept this harsh reality of a meaningless existence and move on rather then continue with the delusion of a temporal self-meaning? I understand that assigning a believed temporal self-meaning to ones life while trapped in a meaningless existence helps one persevere to the point of death in this meaningless materialistic universe but that is just akin to sticking one's head in the sand so as not to have to face their cold harsh reality of living a meaningless life in a meaningless universe. However, this is not in line with the typical skeptic credo.
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"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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| Edited by - Bill scott on 02/08/2011 12:32:39 |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
 Posted - 02/08/2011 : 12:48:40 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
| Originally posted by Dude |
| Exactly. And so if true ultimately his life is rendered meaningless. All he did or did not do, whether for good or for bad, all was done in vain. |
Only in your sad, patheteic, and warped mind (if it can even be said you have a mind...) |
So you decided not to prove my statement false but rather just call me names? |
No it's a show of exasperation most probably born out of the fact that you don't seem to understand that your sans-god-nihilism isn't self-evident.
We, or at least not I, do not accept your premise that "if true ultimately his life is rendered meaningless".
This is not self-evident, because it is build on the false dilemma that god is the only thing that gives life any meaning.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2011 : 12:51:57 [Permalink]
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Bill, you are brain dead.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2011 : 13:28:30 [Permalink]
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| Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse |
| We, or at least not I, do not accept your premise that "if true ultimately his life is rendered meaningless". |
But in the materialistic universe all life is meaningless. Whether or not you accept this is irrelevant.
| This is not self-evident, because it is build on the false dilemma that god is the only thing that gives life any meaning. |
In the materialistic universe all life ends in nothingness. Nothingness renders all meaningless. Therefore all life is rendered meaningless in the materialist universe. Now just don't sit here and say that you don't accept this and offer nothing to back up your non-acceptance. Give us an example in the materialistic universe where nothing had/has/or will ever have meaning. If you can do this then I would have to rethink my position. If you cannot do this then you are just blowing hot air around.
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"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2011 : 13:31:53 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by H. Humbert
Bill, you are brain dead.
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Couldn't come up with an example of where nothing had/has/or will ever have meaning in the materialistic universe, could you? I knew you couldn't. Face it, HH, your life is a meaningless existence in a meaningless universe, if this a materialistic universe. And no amount of believed temporal self-meaning that you have assigned to your life (sticking your head in the sand) will change that. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2011 : 13:53:24 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
But in the materialistic universe all life is meaningless. |
Meaningless to whom, Bill? It's not meaningless to me, but for some reason you think the meaning I give my life shouldn't count. Why not? Why is that not considered meaning to you? Just because it will end? Your life will end. Is that the same as saying you are currently dead? It is the same as saying you never existed? You exist right now, Bill. Your life has meaning right now. The fact that a day will come when everyone is dead, humanity is wiped out and all trace of our species is gone doesn't change the fact that we were here and we did exist. No one has to remember that we were alive for us to have been alive, and no one needs to be around to give our past existence meaning for our lives to have had meaning.
Eternal meaning is not a requirement for temporal meaning, no matter how many times you insist that it is.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2011 : 13:56:24 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
Couldn't come up with an example of where nothing had/has/or will ever have meaning in the materialistic universe, could you? I knew you couldn't. |
Mostly because I don't understand the question. I have no idea how "nothing" can have meaning. But we weren't discussing "nothing," we were discussing people's lives. It is you that keeps equating "will not exist in the future" with "doesn't exist now," which is a clear error in thinking. To argue otherwise is to admit that you are currently brain dead. So I can't answer something based on such flawed premises. You are deeply confused. Your question is literally nonsensical.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 02/08/2011 13:59:26 |
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Fripp
SFN Regular
USA
727 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2011 : 14:15:28 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
In the materialistic universe all life ends in nothingness. Nothingness renders all meaningless. Therefore all life is rendered meaningless in the materialist universe.
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Bill, you can repeat this however many times you wish, but it does not make it true. What you are missing is that it is up to you to prove that there is an afterlife. Where's the proof. Bill? You ain't got none. It's pretty pathetic that you need some unimaginative version of a cheesy, second-rate B-movie supreme being to give your life purpose. |
"What the hell is an Aluminum Falcon?"
"Oh, I'm sorry. I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a small thermal exhaust port that's only 2-meters wide! That thing wasn't even fully paid off yet! You have any idea what this is going to do to my credit?!?!"
"What? Oh, oh, 'just rebuild it'? Oh, real [bleep]ing original. And who's gonna give me a loan, jackhole? You? You got an ATM on that torso LiteBrite?" |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2011 : 14:30:47 [Permalink]
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| Originally posted by H. Humbert |
| The fact that a day will come when everyone is dead, humanity is wiped out and all trace of our species is gone doesn't change the fact that we were here and we did exist. |
If it all ends in nothingness then all is rendered meaningless.
| No one has to remember that we were alive for us to have been alive, and no one needs to be around to give our past existence meaning for our lives to have had meaning. |
If all ends in nothingness than by the very definition of nothingness there is no meaning.
| Mostly because I don't understand the question. I have no idea how "nothing" can have meaning. |
But yet you will assign meaning to your life, which begins and ends with nothing?
| But we weren't discussing "nothing," we were discussing people's lives. |
Actually we were discussing the ends of peoples lives, which in the materialistic universe, they begin and end with nothing. From nothing you came and to nothing you shall return. What's left in the middle is meaningless.
| It is you that keeps equating "will not exist in the future" with "doesn't exist now," which is a clear error in thinking. |
Actually in a materialistic universe there is no meaning to be able to assign to your life. The universe and life itself was created without meaning, it exists without meaning and it will cease to exist without meaning. Now if you want to jump into that sea of meaningless and assign meaning to your life knock yourself out. But even that task will prove to be meaningless in the meaningless universe.
| Your question is literally nonsensical. |
Trying to assign meaning to that which was created in meaninglessness and is currently sustained in a meaninglessness existence is what is nonsensical here. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2011 : 14:59:32 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
Actually we were discussing the ends of peoples lives, which in the materialistic universe, they begin and end with nothing. From nothing you came and to nothing you shall return. What's left in the middle is meaningless. |
Nope. What's left in the middle is chocked full of meaning.
| Now if you want to jump into that sea of meaningless and assign meaning to your life knock yourself out. |
Which is exactly what I'm doing! I give meaning, Bill. I do. As a conscious being, I have that power. So do you, although you choose not to exercise it, which is only your loss.
| But even that task will prove to be meaningless in the meaningless universe. |
But it can't be a meaningless Universe if I just gave it meaning! If the Universe has meaning to me, then the Universe has meaning so long as I exist. I do exist. Ergo, the Universe has meaning.
Trying to assign meaning to that which was created in meaninglessness and is currently sustained in a meaninglessness existence is what is nonsensical here.
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Bill, humans create meaning. It's an abstract concept like justice, another human-created ideal. There is no "ultimate eternal justice" in the Universe, so according to your logic, that means justice cannot exist on Earth. Should we just release all the convicts from our jails because Bill scott has declared justice to be nonexistent? Of course not! Your thinking is broken on this subject. You just keep repeating the same error over and over again.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 02/08/2011 15:02:14 |
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Fripp
SFN Regular
USA
727 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2011 : 15:29:05 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
Now if you want to jump into that sea of meaningless and assign meaning to your life knock yourself out. But even that task will prove to be meaningless in the meaningless universe.
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Bill, you're doing the exact same thing. You're just pretending that your sky daddy is giving meaning. The only difference is that we're not deluding ourselves. Simply because your "belief" is squirting a few more endorphins into your brain isn't rendering any more "meaning" than we are providing ourselves. |
"What the hell is an Aluminum Falcon?"
"Oh, I'm sorry. I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a small thermal exhaust port that's only 2-meters wide! That thing wasn't even fully paid off yet! You have any idea what this is going to do to my credit?!?!"
"What? Oh, oh, 'just rebuild it'? Oh, real [bleep]ing original. And who's gonna give me a loan, jackhole? You? You got an ATM on that torso LiteBrite?" |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2011 : 15:38:37 [Permalink]
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Thanks for shitting all over this thread, Bill. Christian "compassion" strikes again.Originally posted by Bill scott
And so if true ultimately his life is rendered meaningless. All he did or did not do, whether for good or for bad, all was done in vain. |
I still haven't seen you connect the logical dots from "dead is dead" to "it's all meaningless." Nothing about my dad's life is meaningless to me or the other people who knew him.| at least for all practical intents and purposes of the still-living. |
I am asking for all practical intents and purposes of the deceased. |
Which makes no sense at all, even in your theology. Heaven and Hell aren't places where practical concerns have any merit. In my view, the dead don't have any intents or purposes, practical or not, because they're dead.| I am just trying to figure out your logic here. |
Why don't you explain yours?| But yet then on the other hand you want to debate with me for 12 pages when I say that if your belief is true then all life is ultimately rendered meaningless???? |
Because nobody is talking about anything "ultimate," here. Only you have a belief in an "ultimate" something. I have no clue at all (nor can anyone else) as to whether "all life is ultimately rendered meaningless" because we don't know how things are going to ultimately turn out.| If all life to ever walk the planet Earth ultimately ends up in nothingness then ultimately all life ends up meaningless, period. |
That's a mighty big "if" you've got there.| Any token meaning that you care to tack on to your life while you are alive, Dave, is ultimately going to end in nothingness, which renders all meaningless. |
I don't assume that your premise is true.| I mean come on, Dave, who is fooling who here? In the materialistic/naturalistic universe even all of the condolences offered to you on this forum ultimately are rendered as meaningless. Were they offered with good intention? Yes, but ultimately they are meaningless never the less. |
So you keep saying, but have yet to demonstrate. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2011 : 18:07:09 [Permalink]
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Old and Wise by the Alan Parsons Project
When we die whatever meaning our lives had will be held by those we knew, still living. Accept it or don't, Bill, just stop being such a big baby about it. You have your security blanket and therefore your present meaning, and really revisiting this debate in this thread is only evidence of your fear, your desperate faith. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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Wow!
