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changingmyself
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USA
122 Posts

Posted - 05/20/2011 :  13:00:58  Show Profile Send changingmyself a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Horus
1. Born on Dec 25th

Macrobius
(Saturnalia, I, XVIII:10):
"...[10] These differences in age have reference to the sun, for at the winter solstice the sun would seem to be a little child, like that which the Egyptians bring forth from a shrine on an appointed day, since the day is then at its shortest and the god is accordingly shown as a tiny infant.” "

"Macrobius continues to identify other gods with the sun as well as the 12 signs of the Zodiac in Saturnalia 1.21.12:

This is their sign for Osiris, and by it they indicate that this god is the sun, which with royal power looks down upon the world from on high. And indeed in ancient usage the sun is called the eye of Jupiter.
[13] Among the Egyptians Apollo (and he is the sun) is called Horus —whence the name “hours” (horae) has been given to 24 divisions which make up a day and a night and to the four seasons [#8037;#961;#945;#953;] which together complete the cycle of the year [14] It has also been a practice of the Egyptians, when they wish to dedicate a statue of the sun under its own name, to represent it with the head shaved except on the right side, where the hair is allowed to remain. The hair that is kept shows that the sun In never hidden from the world of nature, and the retention of the roots after the locks have been sure indicates that it is an essential property of the song even when it is invisible to us, to reappear like those locks. [15] This same attribute of a half-shorn head is also a symbol of the time when the light is reduced and when the sun, as though shorn of its growth and with a mere stubble, so to speak, remaining, comes to the shortest day (which the men of old called the winter solstice, using the word bruma for winter, from the shortness of the day, as though to say “short day.” But when the sun rises again from its narrow retreat, it reaches out to the summer hemisphere, growing in strength as though by a process of birth, and it is believed to have come then into its own realm. [ 16] That is why, among the signs of the zodiac, the Egyptians have dedicated an animal, the lion, in that part of the heavens where in its yearly course the sun’s powerful heat is hottest. And the Sign of the Lion there they call “The House of the Sun,” because a lion seems to derive its essential qualities from the natural properties of the sun. [17]
Christmas winter solstice

The symbol of the savior child was the was the EYE of the sun newly born on the winter solstice.
Osiris: death and afterlife of a god By Dr. Bojana Mojsov Page 13
Dr.BOJANA MOJSOV is an archaeologist, historian and writer. From 2002 to 2007 she researched and documented objects from the latest archaeological excavations in the National Museum and the Biblioteca Alexandrina in Alexandria.Dr Bojana Mojsov is the leading egyptologist involved in the physical conservation of Setti#65279; I tomb



Osiris: death and afterlife of a god By Bojana Mojsov page xx
"From their mysterious, passionate union the child Horus was born on the winter solstice."

When was the winter solstice?

*The Oxford Handbook of Church and State in the United States - Derek Davis
Page 285
"Between these two celebrations fell 'December 25, the winter solstice' by calendars of the time"
Derek H. Davis, B.A., M.A., J.D., Ph.D., is a graduate of Baylor University and Baylor Law School and holds a Master of Arts in Church-State Studies from Baylor University and a Doctor of Philosophy in Humanities from the University of Texas at Dallas.


*Marking time: the epic quest to invent the perfect calendar By Duncan Steel Page 109
"In the preceding chapter we saw that the pagan midwinter festival of the unconquered sun, at the winter solstice, was held on December 25th; under constantine this became accepted as the appropriate date for Christmas, celebrating Christ's birth. In fact, that is the traditional date for the winter solstice on the Julian calendar..."
Dr Duncan I. Steel, BSc, MSc, DIC, PhD, FRAS (born 11 June 1955), is a British/Australian scientist born in Midsomer Norton, Somerset. He is a world-renowned space science authority who has worked with NASA...


Lost Light: An Interpretation of Ancient Scriptures By Alvin Boyd Kuhn Page 495
"Horus, the child is crowned in the seat of Osiris at the end of three days. In the lunar typing, Osiris dies at the winter solstice to be reborn again as Horus on the third day in the moon."
Alvin Boyd Kuhn (September 22, 1880 - September 14, 1963) was a scholar of comparative religion, mythology, linguistics and language.
Born in Franklin County, Pennsylvania, Kuhn studied the Ancient Greek language at university.[1] He started his career working as a language teacher in high schools. He later enrolled at Columbia University to work on his PhD on Theosophy


"The birth of Christ was assigned the date of the winter solstice (December 25 in the Julian calendar, January 6 in the Egyptian), because on this day, as the Sun began its return to northern skies, the pagan devotees of Mithras celebrated the Dies Natalis Solis Invicti (Birthday of the Invincible Sun). On December 25, 274, [Roman Emperor] Aurelian had proclaimed the Sun God the principal patron of the Empire and dedicated a temple to Him in the Campus Martius. Christmas originated at a time when the cult of the Sun was particularly strong at Rome."
-- New Catholic Encyclopaedia (Vol. III, p.656, 1967 ed.)

Jesus Birthday?
Dictionary of Jesus and the Gospels
By Joel B. Green Page 69
"Both the traditional western date for Christmas (December 25) and the date observed by the Armenian Chrurch (January 6th) are equally possible".
Joel B. Green, Ph.D. is Associate Dean for the Center for Advanced Theological Studies and Professor of New Testament Interpretation at Fuller Theological...

*The Oxford Handbook of Church and State in the United States - Derek Davis
Page 285
"Between these two celebrations fell December 25, the winter solstice by calendars of the time"
Derek H. Davis, B.A., M.A., J.D., Ph.D., is a graduate of Baylor University and Baylor Law School and holds a Master of Arts in Church-State Studies from Baylor University and a Doctor of Philosophy in Humanities from the University of Texas at Dallas.


"the date of Christ’s birth did not become an issue until sometime in the fourth century. At that time the dispute centered primarily over two dates for Christ’s birth: December 25 promoted by the Church of Rome and January 6, known as the Epiphany, observed by the Eastern churches. “Both these days,were pagan festivals whose meaning provided a starting point for the specifically Christian conception of Christmas."
The Meaning, Celebration and Date of Christmas, Samuele Bacchiocchi, p.14
Sameule Bacchiocchi-For his college education he went to England where he earned a B. A. degree in Theology at Newbold College. From England he came to America for his graduate studies and earned a M. A. and a B. D. degrees at Andrews University Theological Seminary. Upon completing his seminary training in 1964...


2. Born of a virgin

“The Egyptian goddess who was equally the Great Virgin (hwnt) and Mother of the God was#65279; the object of the very same praise bestowed upon her successor [Mary, Virgin Mother of Jesus]” - "Isis in the ancient world" by Egyptologist Dr. Reginald E. Witt.
Dr. Reginald E. Witt, Egyptologist and professor at the University of London

Theological Dictionary of the Old Testament, Volume 2 By G. Johannes Botterweck, Helmer Ringgren Page 338-339
"In a text in the Abydos Temple of Seti !, Isis herself declares: "I am the great VIRGIN"
"Botterweck studied philosophy , Catholic theology and oriental studies in Frankfurt and Vienna . In 1944 he received his doctorate in Vienna, Dr. phil. and was ordained a priest in the same year."


*Dictionary of deities and demons in the Bible DDD By K. van der Toorn, Bob Becking, Pieter Willem van der Horst#65279; Page 891
"In Egypt the epithets 'dd.t, rnn.t and hwn.t, 'girl; young woman; virgin', are applied to many goddesses — eg-* Hathor and
-#9658;Isis — who HAD NOT YET HAD SEXUAL INTERCOURSE."
I have already given you these...


Osiris: death and afterlife of a god By Bojana Mojsov Page 94
"Isis and her child had an even bigger following: she came to be worshiped as the primordial virgin and her infant the Savior of the World."


*The Nostratic macrofamily and linguistic palaeontology"
A. Dolgopolski#301;, Colin Renfrew, McDonald Institute for Archaeological Research - 1998 - 116 pages - Snippet view
Egyptian hwn 'boy, young man; (one's) child, son', hwn.t 'girl, VIRGIN', hwn v. 'become young' || Uralic *wa"NV > [1] Finno-Ugric *warju 'daughter's husband, younger brother' >
Andrew Colin Renfrew, Baron Renfrew of Kaimsthorn, Ph.D., FBA, FSA, HonFSAScot (born 25 July 1937 in Stockton-on-Tees) is a prominent British archaeologist and highly regarded academic, noted for his work on radiocarbon dating, the prehistory of languages, archaeogenetics, and the prevention of looting at archaeological sites.


3. Star in the East

The Ancient Egyptian Pyramid Texts By R. O. Faulkner
"You are this LONE STAR that comes forth from the EAST of the sky, and who will surrender himself to HORUS of the NETHERWORLD..."

The Ancient Egyptian Pyramid Texts By R. O. Faulkner
Pages 173, 174,
Also note on pages 40, 154, 161, 184, 192, 205 Horus is the MORNING STAR...
Dr Raymond Oliver Faulkner, FSA, (26 December 1894 — 3 March 1982) was an English Egyptologist and philologist of the ancient Egyptian language.


4. Adored by 3 kings

The Ancient Egyptian Pyramid Texts By R. O. Faulkner
Page 147 NOTE ON PAGE 148 #2
REFFERING Osiris as ORION...


Sketch of the religions of the world -
Robert Shaw (M. A.) Page 211
That was once the star of the three kings ; for the " three kings" is still the-name of the three stars in Orion's belt; and in the hieroglyphics a three-looped string is a symbol of Sahu, that is, the constellsition Orion.
This book was added to show HISTORICITY of the "three kings/orion" tie because it was written in 1904.


Star gods of the Maya: astronomy in art, folklore, and calendars - Page 39 by Susan Milbrath -
"Not surprisingly, Orion is commonly connected with the number three, because the three bright stars in Orion's Belt are easily seen, even with the full moon nearby. The Tzeltal refer to Orion's Belt as "three king[s]"
Susan Milbrath
Dr. Susan Milbrath. Curator of Latin American Art and Archaeology

The Ancient Egyptian Pyramid Texts By R. O. Faulkner Page 155 after Utterance 466 NOTE: #1
1. Procyon? Hardly Sirius, which is always the fem. Spdt, SOTHIS...


Who is SOTHIS? ISIS's BA.

The ancient Egyptian pyramid texts By James P. Allen Page 441
"SOTHIS, Spdt,(sharp) The MORNING STAR, SIRIUS, seen by the Egyptians as a goddess."
NOTE...HORUS IN SOTHIS
James P. Allen received his PhD from the University of Chicago. Before joining Brown in 2007, Prof. Allen was an epigrapher with the University of Chicago's Epigraphic Survey, Cairo Director of the American Research Center in Egypt, and curator of Egyptian art at the Metropolitan Museum of Art. He is also President of the International Association of Egyptologists.


The Egyptian Book of the Dead: The Book of Going Forth by Day By Raymond O. Faulkner, Carol Andrews, James Wasserman Page 175 SOTHIS, "SIRIUS, THE DOG STAR...Sometime takes the role of ISIS."

"In 633 Horus is "Sopd" who came from Osiris in Isis."

Ancient Egyptian science: a source book. Knowledge and Order, Volume 1 By Marshall Clagett
Heliacal rising of Sirus and Sothic periods in Ancient Egypt Marshall Clagett Page 226
Isis-Sothis (i.e. Sirius) [Immediately below is a standing] goddess holding a was scepter.
Marshall Clagett began his undergraduate education in 1933 at the California Institute of Technology. He obtained both the A.B. and M.A. from George Washington University in 1937. In 1941, he received his Ph.D. in history from Columbia University.

The Ancient Egyptian Pyramid Texts By R. O. Faulkner
Page 120
"Your sister Isis comes to you rejoicing for love of you. You have placed her on your phallus and your seed issues into her, she being ready as SOthis and Har Sopd has come forth from you as Horus who is in Sothis."

The origins of Osiris and his cult - Page 13
John Gwyn Griffiths -
"It is therefore likely that Horus-Sopd as the offspring of Osiris-Orion and Isis-Sothis is an astral concept in the first place..."
John Gwyn Griffiths obtained an M.A. degree at Liverpool University on the influence of Ancient Egypt on Greek religion in the Mycenean period. Between 1936 and 1937 he was an archaeological assistant with the Egyptian Exploration Society at Sesebi, Lower Nubia. Having studied at Queen's College, Oxford from 1936 to 1939 he obtained a D.Phil degree from Oxford University on the quarrel of Horus and Seth in 1949.





Edited to fix links and add education.

"The gospels are not eyewitness accounts"

-Allen D. Callahan, Associate Professor of New Testament, Harvard Divinity School


Edited by - changingmyself on 05/21/2011 13:11:06

KingDavid8
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USA
212 Posts

Posted - 05/20/2011 :  13:25:00   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit KingDavid8's Homepage Send KingDavid8 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Just a reminder of what types of evidences I will accept for my challenge:

1) Versions of their stories in which we can read about them actually doing these things, provided that the stories are generally agreed-upon by scholars to be pre-Christian.

2) Any information coming from scholarly sources who are not specifically trying to prove parallels to Jesus, for example:
a) General mythology books and websites, provided they have no Christ-myther agenda
b) Scholars (Christian or not) who work for a university who agree that the parallels are valid.
c) Anything coming from a mainstream peer-reviewed journal.

3) Photographs of pre-Christian heiroglyphs showing them clearly doing these things


Any of the above that doesn't fit into one of these categories is not evidence, per the challenge.
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Hercules
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Posted - 05/20/2011 :  13:30:07   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Hercules a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It must be pointed out that King David has absolutely no qualifications, formal training or credentials of ANY KIND on these issues. So, it should never be left up to him to determine what is or isn't credible evidence. King David is just another Christian out to shore up his faith at all costs by dismissing evidence or just denying it.
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KingDavid8
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USA
212 Posts

Posted - 05/20/2011 :  14:33:34   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit KingDavid8's Homepage Send KingDavid8 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Hercules

It must be pointed out that King David has absolutely no qualifications, formal training or credentials of ANY KIND on these issues. So, it should never be left up to him to determine what is or isn't credible evidence. King David is just another Christian out to shore up his faith at all costs by dismissing evidence or just denying it.


Tell you what. If you're going to launch your usual personal attacks, could you at least do it in the other forum? I'd rather use this forum for discussing the evidence. Thanks.
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changingmyself
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USA
122 Posts

Posted - 05/20/2011 :  15:13:56   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send changingmyself a Private Message  Reply with Quote
5. Teacher at 12

teacher at 12

"Si-Osiri. Numerous are the marvels that he shall do in the land of Egypt."

"That Amen may not find for me evil nor the Kwr of (?) Egypt cause [abomination be done to me], I would (?) cast my magic up to Egypt that I might cause the people of Egypt to pass three days (and) three nights without seeing light except the kiki ?."

Horus, son of Pa-neshe, swore an oath by Pharaoh and the gods of Egypt, saying: 'I will not remove my spell, until you have sworn an oath to me not to return up to Egypt for any kind (?) of purpose (?).'"
Source: Griffith, F. Ll, Stories of the High Priests of Memphis; The Sethon of Herodotus and The Demotic Tales of Khamuas
F. Ll. G. Francis Llewellyn Griffith, M.A., Ph.D., F.S.A.. Reader in Egyptology, Oxford University.

Khamaus-Si Orisi


AGE 12 SI ORISI...HORUS

twelve years old


6. Baptized/ministry at 30

"They say unto Ra:--'Immerse thyself, O Ra, in thy holy lake, wherein the lord of the gods immersed himself, whereunto the souls of the dead approach not; this is what thou thyself hast commanded, O KHUTI.' Their food consisteth of bread, their drink is [made] of the red [barley], and their vessels of drink are filled with wine. There is lamentation among them when they hear their doors close upon them. Their food is given unto them as lord[s] of their sceptres round about this lake."

Horus unto those gods who are behind the shrine:--

"Make inquisition for me, O gods who are in the following of Khenti Amenti, stand ye up, and withdraw ye not yourselves, and be ye masters over yourselves, and come, and live delicately on the bread of HU, and drink ye of the ale of Maat, and live ye upon that whereon my father liveth there. That which belongeth to you in the hidden place is to be behind the shrine, according to the commandment of Ra. I call unto you, and behold, it is for you to do what it is your duty [to do].' Their meat consisteth of cakes of bread, and their ale is of the tchesert drink, and their libations are [made with] cool water. Their food is given unto them by the guardian of the things which are in the shrine. And Horus saith unto these gods:--'Smite ye the enemies of my father, and hurl ye them down into your pits because of that deadly evil which they have done against the Great One, [which] found (?) him that begot me. That which belongeth to you to do in the Tuat is to guard the pits of fire according as Ra hath commanded, and I set [this] before you so that, behold, ye may do according to what belongeth to you [to do].' This god standeth over (or, by) the pits."

Book of Gates

Dictionary of Jesus and the Gospels - Page 55
Joel B. Green, Scot McKnight, I. Howard Marshall
"Water is the element naturally used for cleansing the body, and its symbolic use entered into almost every ... The ritual of washing was similar to baptism in its purifying implications"
Joel B. Green has been associate dean for the Center for Advanced Theological Studies since 2008 and professor of New Testament interpretation at Fuller Theological Seminary


Egyptian Baptism
The New Testament in antiquity By Gary M. Burge, Lynn H. Cohick, Gene L. Green Page 203
Egyptian Baptism
Gary M. Burge. Professor of New Testament at Wheaton College

Religions of the ancient world: a guide By Sarah Iles Johnston Page 439 When BABIES were given names...
Babies getting their names
Education:
Ph.D. Cornell 1987 · M.A. Cornell 1983 · B.A. (Classics) Univ. Kansas 1980 · B.S. (Journalism) Univ. Kansas 1979

Gods of our fathers: the memory of Egypt in Judaism and Christianity By Richard A. Gabriel page 185
Egyptian Baptism
baptism
Richard A. Gabriel is a distinguished professor in the Department of History and War Studies at the Royal Military College of Canada and in the Department

Ancient Egypt By David P. Silverman Page 157
Baptism of the Pharoah explained
Dr. David P. Silverman serves as the curator, advisor and academic content creator for Tutankhamun and the. Golden Age of the Pharaohs
Pharaoh

7. 12 disciples
The Pyramid Texts state that Horus DID have followers.
Utterances 453-486:
897a. "Thou causest the Followers of Horus to be satisfied."
921a. "The Followers of Horus purify N."


Book of Gates Chapter 5
"Then saith Horus unto those gods who are behind the shrine:--
"Make inquisition for me, O gods who are in the following of Khenti Amenti, stand ye up, and withdraw ye not yourselves, and be ye masters over yourselves, and come, and live delicately on the bread of HU, and drink ye of the ale of Maat, and live ye upon that whereon my father liveth there. That which belongeth to you in the hidden place is to be behind the shrine, according to the commandment of Ra. I call unto you, and behold, it is for you to do what it is your duty [to do].' Their meat consisteth of cakes of bread, and their ale is of the tchesert drink, and their libations are [made with] cool water. Their food is given unto them by the guardian of the things which are in the shrine. And Horus saith unto these gods:--'Smite ye the enemies of my father, and hurl ye them down into your pits because of that deadly evil which they have done against the Great One, [which] found (?) him that begot me. That which belongeth to you to do in the Tuat is to guard the pits of fire according as Ra hath commanded, and I set [this] before you so that, behold, ye may do according to what belongeth to you [to do].' This god standeth over (or, by) the pits."

12 Gods behind the shrine...
12 followers


8. Performed miracles
The Egyptian Book of the dead: translation and commentary, Volume 1 By Edouard Naville Page 3
"The raising up or the resurrection here spoken of is not only the soul but of the body of the deceased person..." Also listed above under magic.


9. "Lamb of God"/"The Light"
The ancient Egyptian pyramid texts By James#65279; P. Allen Page 101
"Horus shall take account of you year by year, rejuvenated in your identity of the rejuvenated waters of the inundation, Horus has become BA, taking account of his father in you, in his identity of him of the Sovereign's BA sedan chair."

The Egyptian Book of the dead: translation and commentary, Volume 1 By Edouard Naville Page 8 states:
THE RAM IS CALLED IN EGYPTIAN- BA!
BA

HORUS BECAME THE BA-RAM of OSIRIS
aka Lamb of GOD.

Page 34
"The TET which is between them is a symbol of both Osiris and of the East and the BA is replaced by the Arrow Up sign."
description of Osiris on Cross

"It is I, even I, whom am Horus in glory...I am master of his light"

"Sun and Moon are the two great lights..."Page 29
Horus of the two Horizons
Horus, two horizons

page 118 Read that WHOLE Chapter....It is HORUS Speaking...
"I am Yesterday, Today and Tomorrow, for I am born again and again, mine is the unseen force which createth the gods and giveth food to those in Tuat at the west of Heaven; I am the Eastern Rudder, the Lord of Two Faces, who seeth by his own LIGHT, the Lord of Resurrections, who cometh forth from the dusk and whose birth is from the House of Death. "
Captaine Henri Édouard Naville (1844–1926) was a Swiss egyptologist. He studied in London, Paris and Berlin



Added Education

"The gospels are not eyewitness accounts"

-Allen D. Callahan, Associate Professor of New Testament, Harvard Divinity School

Edited by - changingmyself on 05/21/2011 12:45:24
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teched246
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123 Posts

Posted - 05/20/2011 :  16:30:14   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send teched246 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
HORUS: TRINITY
The egyptians deified the sun as a trinity of gods -- Osiris, the Father, Horus, the Son, and Ra, the Highest Sun -- each corresponding to at least one of the sun's 3 key positions throughout the day. Osiris represented the *setting* sun, and is reborn as horus, the *rising* sun. Ra, who alone represented the *mid-day* sun, completes the trinity as "Ra-Horakty" (translates to "Ra who is Horus of the Two Horizons") the conflation of all three gods and postions of the sun. Also, Horus, the son, was regarded as being the father, osiris. In Chapter 1 of the Book of the Dead a passage reads "I am he of the Djed Pillar (Osiris), I am the son of He of the Djed Pillar (Horus), I was concieveth in Djedu, I was born in Djedu". The title Horakty, Horus of the two Horizons (eastern rising and western setting), is also evidence that they considered the son as also being the father.

HORUS: 3 DAY BURIAL AND RESURRECTION
According to the Ikhernofret Stela (2000BC)translated by Richard H. Wilkinson www.philae.nu/akhet/ApassionPlays.html , Osiris' Death and Resurrection was celebrated in a 5 day festival known as the "Passion Plays". He is entombed on the 2nd day, and remains so until the 4th day (3 DAYS). Afterwards -- on the 5th day -- he is reborn AT DAWN. This is why Horus represented the sun's *rising* position, whereas Osiris represented the sun's *setting* position; Horus is symbolic of Osiris' rebirth/ resurrection AT DAWN. Also, directly from the Pyramid Texts:

Utterance 667 1941b http://www.sacred-texts.com/egy/pyt/pyt53.htm
"thou shalt not give it to those people; these by thy side.
O N., this hour of the morning, of this -----THIRD DAY-----, is come, when thou surely passest on to heaven, together with the stars, the imperishable stars" This verse is speaking of Osiris' ascension

Utterance 556 1382f http://www.sacred-texts.com/egy/pyt/pyt34.htm
"when this hour of the morrow comes,this hour of the -----THIRD DAY---- comes, where father Osiris will be reborn, at the place where the gods are born;when this hour of the morrow comes, this hour of the ---THIRD DAY----


HORUS: 12 APOSTLES
The Book of Gates
Chapter 3
The Gate of Saa-Set
The Second Division of Tuat
Link: http://www.sacred-texts.com/egy/gate/gate17.htm

Note: Ra was a solar deity representing the sun's *mid-day* position while Horus represented the sun's *rising* position. By the time of the Book of Gates, Ra had already merged with Horus to represent all positions. In the Book of Gates, Ra is RaHorakty (Ra who is Horus of the two Horizons) as he is the sun travelling from one Horizon to the other throughout the night.
The Book of Gates PAGE 92-94 states: "The 12 worshippers of Ra/Horus who are at peace...They who praised Ra/Horus upon Earth...They who spoke Truth upon Earth (On Ra/Horus' behalf)....They who uttered words of power against Apep (an unclean evil spirit) and have vanquished Apep for me."
OK, so not only did the 12 spread Truth on his behalf, but they also excorcised demons in his name.

HORUS: EUCHARIST
The Book of Gates
Chapter 5
The Gate of Tchetbi
Fourth Division of Tuat
Link: http://www.sacred-texts.com/egy/gate/gate19.htm

Page 136
Then saith Horus unto the TWELVE GODS who are behind the shrine:--
"Make inquisition for me, O gods who are in the following of Khenti Amenti, stand ye up, and withdraw ye not yourselves, and be ye masters over yourselves, and come, and live delicately on the ------BREAD---- OF HU, and drink ye of the ----ALE of Maat-----"


The ale is later referred to as the "Tchesert Drink", which translates to "Divine Drink". Horus offering 12 followers Divine Bread (bread of HU) and a Divine Drink (Ale of Maat)is a concept reworked in the NT when jesus, at the Eucharist, offers the 12 apostles his body in the form of BREAD and his divine blood in the form of WINE

HORUS: BAPTISM + EUCHARIST
Book of Gates
Chapter 5
The Gate of Tchetbi
Fourth Division of Tuat
Same link as for the Eucharist

Note: Again, in the Book of Gates Ra is Ra-Horakty (Ra who is Horus of the two Horizons: the sun travelling from one horizon to the other. PG 130 The 12 gods say unto Ra/Horus: -- "Immerse thyself, O Ra, in the holy lake, whereing the lord of the gods immersed himself, whereunto the souls of the dead approach not; this is what thou thyself hast commanded. O KHUTI...Thier food consisteth of -----BREAD...thier vessels are filled with WINE------


HORUS: BAPTISM
Utterance 512 1164c http://www.sacred-texts.com/egy/pyt/pyt27.htm
Note: Osiris, the father, and Horus, the son, are one and the same.
"Raise yourself, my father, recieve these your Four pleasant provision-jars,PURIFY THYSELF IN THE LAKE OF ANUBIS (Anup), be PURIFIED in the Lake of the Netherworld."


HORUS: CRUCIFIED


HIS MOTHER, ISIS-MERI, ON THE LEFT; HER TWIN, NEPHTYS ON THE RIGHT

COMPARE THAT WITH THIS


HIS MOTHER, MARY, ON THE LEFT; MARY MAGDELINE ON THE RIGHT

Note: Crucifixion, before it had become exclusive to christian context, meant a display or spectacle on a cross, pole, or tree either by execution or symbolic imagery
See here: http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Contrad/External/crucify.html

In the case of horus, we actually have the heiroglyphs that show his arms outstretched from the Ankh Cross(Life/Rebirth) ATOP OF HIS ENTOMBED CORPSE in the Tree Trunk(djed pillar). Notice the two Meri's (Isis, his mother, on the left, and her twin, Nephtys, on the right) at the base of the figure, similar to the two Mary's shown at jesus' feet in the image of jesus (his mother, mary, on the left, and mary magdaline on the right). Horus is the rebirth of Osiris, and given that Osiris was betrayed by Typhon (Set), im more than certain that Zeitgeist was referring to the Osiris-Horus combination. The egyptian story goes: When Osiris was betrayed and killed by Typhon, his body eventually entombed within a TREE TRUNK known as the DJED PILLAR or the "Backbone of Osiris". See here http://www.pyramidofman.com/Djed/Legend.htm and also http://www.pyramidofman.com/Osiris-Djed.htm The Djed Pillar is one of 3 combined symbols, the two others being the -------EGYPTIAN CROSS (Ankh)------ and the "Was Staff". Our center of focus is the combination of the DJED TREE, in which Osiris was entombed, and the ANKH CROSS, which was combined with the tree. In numerous biblical verses jesus is said to have died on a tree while tradition holds that it happened on a CROSS. This tree/cross discrepancy is not really a discrepancy, but rather an accomodation of both the DJED and ANKH forming the combination in jesus' myth.

"The god of our father raised up, who ye slew and hanged on a ---TREE---." (Acts 5:30)
"And we are witnessess of all things which jesus did both in the land of the jews, and in Jerusalem; who ye slew and hanged on a ----TREE----" (Acts 10:39)
"And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took jesus down from the ---TREE--- and laid him in a sepulchre."(Acts 13:29)
"Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is everyone that hangeth on a ----TREE---" (Gal 3:13)
"Jesus bore our sins in his own body on the ---TREE---, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteiousness: by whose stripes ye were healed." (1Peter 2:24)



HORUS: MORNING STAR
Jesus refers to himself as the "Morning Star" in Revelations 22:16: I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright **MORNING STAR** "

Journal of Near Eastern Studies RO Falukner PYRAMID TEXTS: "O MORNING STAR, Horus of the Dlet, divine falcon, widwid-bird whom the sky bore..."

Book of the Dead Chapter 109 "I know the souls fo the easterners, they are Horakty (Horus of the horizons), the sun#65279; calf, and the **MORNING STAR** "

HORUS: ADORNED BY 3 KINGS



(Wilkinson, Manner and Customs of the Ancient Egyptians, III, 18, Murdock the 2010 Astrotheology Calendar, 34)

Sokar, Osiris, and Ptah -- 3 kings -- approaching baby Horus in a manger at the Winter Solstice.













"For all things have been baptized in the well of eternity and are beyond good
and evil; and good and evil themselves are but intervening shadows and damp
depressions and drifting clouds.Verily, it is a blessing and not a blasphemy
when I teach: ‘Over all things stand the heaven Accident, the heaven
Innocence, the heaven Chance, the heaven Prankishness." -Nietzsche
Edited by - teched246 on 05/21/2011 16:20:59
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25977 Posts

Posted - 05/20/2011 :  16:40:39   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by teched246

Quick question: Does anyone know how to post images?
With the [img] and [/img] tags. See our FAQ. This:
[center][img]http://www.examiner.com/images/blog/EXID17009/images/sokarthree.jpg[/img][/center]
becomes this:


- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Hercules
New Member

35 Posts

Posted - 05/20/2011 :  16:44:24   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Hercules a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by KingDavid8

Originally posted by Hercules

It must be pointed out that King David has absolutely no qualifications, formal training or credentials of ANY KIND on these issues. So, it should never be left up to him to determine what is or isn't credible evidence. King David is just another Christian out to shore up his faith at all costs by dismissing evidence or just denying it.


Tell you what. If you're going to launch your usual personal attacks, could you at least do it in the other forum? I'd rather use this forum for discussing the evidence. Thanks.


You only think it's a "personal attack" because you don't want people to know the facts about you or your website. What I posted was factual. You have absolutely no relevant qualifications, formal training or credentials of ANY KIND. Plus the fact that you've been refusing to read the books that cite the evidence since day one. So, it should never be left up to you to determine what is or isn't credible evidence because we already know that you'll dismiss or deny it however you can in order to shore up your Christian faith at all costs. I've witnessed you doing precisely that over the 8 years you've had your website.

Do you think it's unfair that people know the most basic facts about you and your website? You post mostly Christian apologist links on your website but never the counter views or responses from those who actually have expertise on these issues. Such as those websites you claim "debunk Zeitgeist" have already been addressed but one would never know that by reading your website, would they:

Conspiracy Science
http://www.freethoughtnation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=2609

I especially love this one about "Captain Ferseus" showing just how pathetic those guys over there really are.
http://www.freethoughtnation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19839#p19839

Skeptic Magazine Critique of Zeitgeist Part 1
http://www.freethoughtnation.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=2541

Rebuttal to Dr. Chris Forbes concerning 'Zeitgeist, Part 1'
http://truthbeknown.com/chrisforbeszeitgeist.html

There are many more addressed here
http://www.freethoughtnation.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=19

The New Zeitgeist Part 1 Sourcebook (2010)
http://www.stellarhousepublishing.com/zeitgeistsourcebook.pdf
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13458 Posts

Posted - 05/20/2011 :  18:34:18   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Okay children. You guys need to learn this: Creating a Hyperlink in your message.

Either that or go to www.tinyurl.com to shrink your links.

Fix your links because as it is this page is unreadable. Thank you.

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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changingmyself
Skeptic Friend

USA
122 Posts

Posted - 05/20/2011 :  19:03:58   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send changingmyself a Private Message  Reply with Quote
10. Crucified
11. Dead for 3 days
12. Resurrected"


"The Oxford Enclyclopedia of Ancient Egypt 3V by Donald B Redford Page 400
He (Thoth) assists HORUS and Annubis in reconstructing the body of Osiris and teaches Isis the spells necessary to revive him...
"In one version, he (Thoth) heals the infant Horus after Isis finds him dead of a scorpion bite."
Donald B. Redford is a Canadian Egyptologist and archaeologist, currently Professor of Classics and Ancient Mediterranean Studies

*The Egyptian Book of the dead: translation and commentary, Volume 1 By Edouard Naville Page 2
"I AM WITH HORUS on the day when the festival of OSIRIS is celebrated..."
I AM THY KINSMEN, HORUS!
*RAISING OF THE DJED PILLAR Page 176
Captaine Henri Édouard Naville was a Swiss egyptologist. He studied in London, Paris and Berlin

*The ancient Egyptian pyramid texts By James P. Allen Page 31 THE RESURRECTION RITUAL

*The ancient Egyptian pyramid texts By James P. Allen PAGE 16

*Kingship and the gods: a study of ancient Near Eastern religion as the ... By Henri Frankfort
SED FESTIVAL page 204 AND page 338
Henri 'Hans' Frankfort was a Dutch Egyptologist, archaeologist and orientalist.

Osiris: death and afterlife of a god By Bojana Mojsov
"As Egyptian history unfolded, the cult of Osiris grew in populatiry. The Middle Kingdom (2055-1650 BC) he assumed the role of the Great Judge of souls in the netherworld who dispensed bread and bear to the justified souls. Every year in the town of Abydos his death and resurrection after 3 days were celebrated in a publicly enacted passion play called the Mysteries of Osiris...
the cult of Osiris clasped hands with the cult of Ra and Osiris became the enlightened savior god, shepherd to immorality for ordinary people. ...Isis came to be worshipped as the primordial virgin and her child the Savior of the world."

OSIRIS IS TIED TO A STAKE...
The Osireion at Abydos By Margaret Alice Murray, Joseph Grafton Milne, Walter Ewing Crum PAGE 30
Margaret Alice Murray was a prominent British Egyptologist and anthropologist.

The mythological traditions of liturgical drama: the Eucharist as theater By Christine Schnusenberg PAGE 35
Christine C. Schnusenberg is an independent research scholar who received her PhD from the University of Chicago.


Publications, Volume 9 By British School of Archaeology in Egypt and Egyptian Research Account Page 31& 32

The Oxford companion to world mythology - Page 117
David Adams Leeming
"The myth of Horus justifies the sacred kingship. Horus is Osiris reborn. And Osiris's resurrection as Horus represents the possibility of any individual's succeeding on the traditional heroic journey into the underworld"
DAVID ADAMS LEEMING is professor emeritus of English and comparative literature at the University of Connecticut,


The ancient Egyptian pyramid#65279; texts By James P. Allen Page 101
# 7 Horus shall take account for you...

The DISMEMBERMENT OF HORUS.: The Egyptian Book of the dead: translation and commentary, Volume 1 By Edouard Naville
PAGE XX #3


*The Ancient Egyptian Pyramid Texts By R. O. Faulkner
Page 144 UTTERANCE 437
TAKE NOTE: THIS IS ALSO WHERE RE IS MENTIONED AS THE SPIRIT!

"Horus the Sun, and Ra, the Sun-God of Heliopolis, had so permeated each other that none could say where the one began and the other ended..." - Egyptologist Sir Dr. Gaston Maspero
Education

*Handbook of Egyptian mythology By Geraldine Pinch
"Osiris is from the beginning a dead god..." Page 94
Geraldine Harris Pinch, is an author (of both fiction and non-fiction) and Egyptologist. She is a member of the Faculty of Oriental Studies at the University of Oxford.

Kingship and the gods: a study of ancient Near Eastern religion as ... - Page 289
Henri Frankfort -
"Osiris, in fact, was not a "dying" god at all but a "dead" god. He never returning to the land of the living; he was not liberated from the world of the dead, as Tammuz was. "
Henri 'Hans' Frankfort (February 24, 1897 – July 16, 1954) was a Dutch Egyptologist, archaeologist and orientalist.


The religion of the ancient Egyptians - Page 42 by
Georg Steindorff was a graduate of the Egyptology seminars of the University of Göttingen
"first of all, that there was only one sun- god, Re, and that the old sun-god Horus, who soared as a hawk above the heavens, was the same in essence as Re. The two differed only in name. The god was therefore named " Re-Horus ..."

God: Myths of the Male Divine - DAVID ADAMS LEEMING Page 133
"With the development of the Osiris cult, the pha- raoh in death was the setting sun, the Dying God Osiris, reborn as that god's son, the rising Sun God Horus."

The encyclopædia britannica: a dictionary of arts, sciences, ...: Volume 13 - Page 783
"As a sun-god Horus not only worsted the hostile darkness and avenged his father, but also daily renewed himself. He was thus IDENTICAL with his own father from one#65279; point of view."

REVEREND Archibald Henry Sayce from Early Israel and the surrounding nations - Page 150
"Horus, however, and Osiris were but forms of the same deity. Horus was the Sun-god when he rises in the morning ; Osiris the Sun-god as he journeys at night through a world of darkness"...
The Rev. Archibald Henry Sayce (25 September 1846 - 4 February 1933), was a pioneer British Assyriologist and linguist, who held a chair as Professor of Assyriology at the University of Oxford from 1891 to 1919.


Studies in Latin literature and Roman history: Volume 14
Carl Deroux -
"For every night, Horus would die but the next morning Nut would give birth to him again, and the cycle would repeat itself. A final association between the story of Apollonius, king of Tyre, and the mythology of Horus and Osiris"


The enigmatic Netherworld Books of the Solar-Osirian unity: ... - Page 91
John Coleman Darnell -
"The bodies of Horus and Osiris appear together in a single oval, with Horus emerging from Osiris, in the third scene in the second register of section D of the Book of the Creation of the Solar Disk."
John Coleman Darnell (B.A. 1984, M.A. 1985, The Johns Hopkins University; Ph.D. 1995, The Oriental Institute of the University of Chicago)

World mythology By Roy G. Willis Page 47 The SUN GOD, his NIGHT VOYAGE and the Stars...
RA-Horus of the HORIZON.
also mentions the TWELVE hours of the night (those followers of Horus). Orion was OSIRIS.
Roy Willis, Ph.D. in Social Anthropology

The ancient Egyptian book of the dead
By Carol Andrews, Raymond Oliver Faulkner Page 174
Osiris says: " I AM REBORN, I see, I behold, I will be yonder, I am raised up on my side, I make a decree, I hate sleep..."

Christians say the same thing...
The Two Babylons: Or, the Papal Worship Proved to Be the Worship ... - Page 289 Alexander Hislop -
"We have seen already, that the Egyptian Horus was just a new incarnation of Osiris or Nimrod."
Alexander Hislop was a Free Church of Scotland minister.


The ancient Egyptian book of the dead By Carol Andrews, Raymond Oliver Faulkner Page 109
" I know the mystery of Nekhen; it is the hands of Horus of his mother's making which were throwin into the water when she said: 'You shall be the two severed portions of HORUS after you have been found.' and Re said, This son of ISIS is injured by reason of what his own mother has done to him; let us fetch sobk from the back of the waters so that he may fish them out and that his mother Isis may cause them to grow again in their proper place" And Sobk from the back of the waters said; I have fished and I have sought; they slipped from my hand on the bank of th waters, but in the end I fished them up with a fish trap."


Egyptian [mythology] By Wilhelm Max Müller, Sir James George Scott Page 399
Wilhelm Max Müller, Ph.D. was an American Oriental scholar, born at Gleißenberg, Germany.

Jealous gods and chosen people: the mythology of the Middle East - Page 66
David Adams Leeming -
"Isis was her husband's queen in the underworld and the theological basis for the role of the queen on earth. ... The pharaoh died as Osiris and was resurrected as his son Horus".

Isis in the ancient world - Page 45
Dr. Reginald Eldred Witt -
"The royal relationship in Egypt typified and was that of Osiris and Isis, the Osiris killed by Seth and the Isis responsible for the resurrection of her husband-brother by the birth of her child Horus."
Dr. Reginald Eldred Witt was educated at Taunton’s School in that city and at the University of Southampton (1924-7; BA, upper second class), before going on to teach New Testament Greek at Woodbrooke College, Birmingham while taking an MA (1929) under E.R. Dodds at the University of Birmingham. His thesis on Plotinus’ relation to Stoicism earned the British Academy’s Cromer Greek Prize for 1930. As the Rouse Ball Research Student at Trinity College, Cambridge (1931-4) he completed under the supervision of F.H. Sandbach a dissertation for the PhD on the Middle Platonic philosopher Albinus.

The Nummo By Shannon Dorey Page 243
Shannon Dorey is a graduate of Trent University in Peterborough, Ontario where she studied English, History and mythology.


The Encyclopædia britannica: a dictionary of arts, sciences ...,Page 50 Volume 9 By Hugh Chisholm
Two Horus's, the elder and younger...
"Hugh Chisholm was educated at Felsted School and Christ Church, Oxford. He graduated from the latter in 1888 with a first class in Literae Humaniores. He read for the Bar and was called to the Middle Temple in 1892."


Healing Gods of Ancient Civilizations By Dr.Walter Addison Jayne M.D. Page 59
"Horus the younger was the reincarnation of Osiris."

ReMembering Osiris: number, gender, and the word in ancient Egyptian ... By Tom Hare page 121
"It is disconcerting to find an adult Horus here assisting at his own conception; in order to explain this away the circularity of this construction and the puzzling multiplicity of Horus, both ancient and moder scholars have resroted to variations of the myth. Thus some versions, Geb and Nut have not four but five chidlren, among them one "Horus the elder."
Thomas Blenman Hare is William Sauter LaPorte '28 Professor in Regional Studies and Professor of Comparative Literature at Princeton University. Originally trained as a Japanologist and spending much of his career at Stanford University,


The Egyptian revival: ancient Egypt as the inspiration for design motifs in ... By James Stevens Curl
Page 418
"Ankh, Cross surmounted by a circlet used in hieroglyphs, later identified with the numbus and Cross (crux ansata) of the crucifixion, possibly a stylised form of some kind of magic knot, (see also tyet) It signifies life and the resurrection and is very common in Egyptian and Egyptianising iconography as an attribute of the deities, meaning eternal life-giving powers."
Professor Emeritus James Stevens Curl has held Chairs in Architectural History


Inscriptions from Egypt's Third Intermediate Period By Robert Kriech Ritner Page 71
"Maat is adored in your form, and god is summoned in your likenes by calling your name today; I am Horus the Savior/Reciter."
Robert K. Ritner, PhD, Professor of Egyptology in the Department of Near Eastern Languages and Civilizations at the Oriental Institute of
Chicago's Oriental Institute,

Women in myth By Bettina Liebowitz Knapp Page 12-13
"Revealed to her was the future birth of Horus, the redeemer, the hawk headed god..."
"Horus became the living and functioning son, the earthly counterpart of his father..."
Bettina Liebowitz Knapp, is a prolific writer and has taught Romance languages and comparative literature at Hunter College and the Graduate Center of the City University of New York.

Healing Gods of Ancient Civilizations By Dr.Walter Addison Jayne M.D. Page 61
Horus bitten by scorpian and Thoth restored the child to life

Osiris: death and afterlife of a god - Dr.Bojana MojsovPage 11
"Horus became not only the legitimate new king, the reincarnation of Osiris, but also the heroic avenger and ... The discrepancy between the two gods was explained by introducing Horus the Elder and Horus the Younger..."


Brady's Book of Fixed Stars By Bernadette Brady Page 284
"In the Egyptian Myth, the sun was Horus/Osiris; the myth of the scorpion killing Osiris and sending him to his midwinter death only to be reborn again in the form of Horus is a myth describing the annual journey of the sun through this constellation"
Bernadette Brady M.A. is a professional consulting and teaching astrologer who lives in Bristol, UK. She holds a masters degree in Culture Astronomy and Astrology from Bath Spa University, UK


Which explains THIS:
Egyptian magic By Sir Ernest Alfred Wallis Budge Page 134
Sir Ernest Alfred Thompson Wallis Budge was an English Egyptologist, Orientalist, and philologist who worked for the British Museum and published numerous works on the ancient Near East.

This:
Nature, Volume 40 edited by Sir Norman Lockyer Page 285Norman Lockyer was an English scientist and astronomer.


And most likely this:
The Egyptian Book of the dead: translation and commentary, Volume 1 By Edouard Naville Page 91

Repaired hyperlinks.

Kil

See Dr. Bojana Mojsov saying this stuff here

Added Education

"The gospels are not eyewitness accounts"

-Allen D. Callahan, Associate Professor of New Testament, Harvard Divinity School

Edited by - changingmyself on 05/21/2011 12:43:00
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changingmyself
Skeptic Friend

USA
122 Posts

Posted - 05/20/2011 :  19:07:40   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send changingmyself a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Kil

Okay children. You guys need to learn this: Creating a Hyperlink in your message.

Either that or go to www.tinyurl.com to shrink your links.

Fix your links because as it is this page is unreadable. Thank you.


Sorry, I tried to do that and it didn't quite work.

"The gospels are not eyewitness accounts"

-Allen D. Callahan, Associate Professor of New Testament, Harvard Divinity School

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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13458 Posts

Posted - 05/20/2011 :  19:33:55   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by changingmyself

Originally posted by Kil

Okay children. You guys need to learn this: Creating a Hyperlink in your message.

Either that or go to www.tinyurl.com to shrink your links.

Fix your links because as it is this page is unreadable. Thank you.


Sorry, I tried to do that and it didn't quite work.
Open your post by hitting edit and look at what I did.

I suggest you all create a template off the faq page that I linked to.

Otherwise, use www.tinyurl.com to shrink your links. It really works!!!

It would make me happy if you all go back and fix all of your links. What happens is that overly long links stretch the page and it makes it very hard to read.

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9666 Posts

Posted - 05/21/2011 :  01:49:41   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If links doesn't seem to work, even if you're sure you typed them right, they could get broken because of 'exotic' characters which are not part of the most basic list of characters allowed for URLs.

In that case, use this tutorial to learn how to fix broken links.


Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
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teched246
Skeptic Friend

123 Posts

Posted - 05/21/2011 :  04:28:17   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send teched246 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Before we continue posting sources for KD's list i'll share a few other tales of virgin mothers and crucified saviours

GILGAMESH: VIRGIN MOTHER
"Child of Lugal Banda's wife and some great force.
Gilgamesh is the finest child of Ninsun; who NEVER LET A MAN TOUCH HER,
indeed so pure and heavenly, so without sin."
[Epic of Gilgamesh]

SHAKTISM: VIRGIN MOTHER http://www.astrojyoti.com/devibhagavatam6.htm
"Surya, the SUN, then said: O Beautiful Kunti! IF YOU SATISFY ME YOUR VIRGINITY WILL REMAIN;
nobody will come to know and THERE WILL BE BORN A SON TO YOU exactly like me."
(Devi Bhagavatam, Book 2, Chapter 6, On the Birth of Pandavas Verses 13-35)
This myth is also in the Mahabarata.

PRAJAPATY: CRUCIFIED SAVIOUR http://www.oration.com/~mm9n/articles/hinduism/chapter_six.htm
Note: the Rig Veda dates back to at least 1700BC

“Purusha evedam sarvam
Yadbhutham yachabhavyam
Uthaamruthathwasya esaana
Ya daannenathirohathi”
This man, the first born of the God is all that was, all that is and all that has to be.
And he comes to this world to give recompense to everybody as per his deeds.
(Rigveda X:90:2)

“Tham yajnam barhishi proukshan
Purusham jaathamagratha
Thena deva ayajantha
Sadhya rushayaschaye”
This man, the first born of the God, was tied to a WOODEN SACRAFICIAL POST
and the gods and the Kings along the seers performed the sacrifice
‘Purushasookta’ Rigveda X:90:7

“Thamevam Vidwanamruthaiha bhavathy
Nanya pandha ayanaya vidyathe”
This (sacrifice) is the only way for REDEMPTION AND LIBERATION OF MANKIND.
Those meditate and attain this man, believe in heart and chant with the lips,
get liberated in this world itself and there is no other way for salvation too
Yajurveda XXXI:18, Rigveda X:90:16.

"For all things have been baptized in the well of eternity and are beyond good
and evil; and good and evil themselves are but intervening shadows and damp
depressions and drifting clouds.Verily, it is a blessing and not a blasphemy
when I teach: ‘Over all things stand the heaven Accident, the heaven
Innocence, the heaven Chance, the heaven Prankishness." -Nietzsche
Edited by - teched246 on 05/21/2011 10:11:35
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KingDavid8
Skeptic Friend

USA
212 Posts

Posted - 05/21/2011 :  05:56:45   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit KingDavid8's Homepage Send KingDavid8 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by teched246

Before we continue posting sources for KD's list i'll share a few other tales of virgin mothers and crucified saviours


Teched, let's leave it with the Zeitgeist list only.

Also, remember that if you're just going to quote someone who repeats the claims, it either needs to be a scholar who works for a university, or it needs to be from a peer-reviewed journal or from a general mythology website or book. Most of what you've been posting so far is from neither, as far as I know, so it does not count as evidence. What I'd really like you to do is when you post a piece of evidence, tell me how it fits in with my criteria. If you're quoting a scholar who works for a university, tell us which university he or she works for.

My reason for the criteria is that if these claims were true, we would expect there to be versions of the story where they happened, or we would expect them to be acknowledged by the highest-level scholars, or we would expect them to pass peer-review, or we would expect general mythology websites and books to acknowledge them. Someone simply repeating the claims is no more than what Zeitgeist itself does, so it's not any better "evidence" for the claim than Zeitgeist itself.
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KingDavid8
Skeptic Friend

USA
212 Posts

Posted - 05/21/2011 :  06:09:14   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit KingDavid8's Homepage Send KingDavid8 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Also, without responding to any specific piece of evidence, I am asking people here that, when an image is posted, ask yourself if the image really shows what ChangingMyself and Teched say it does.

For an example *not* from this page, Zeitgeist shows the Luxor Inscriptions in the movie, with Peter Joseph claiming that it shows the *virgin Isis* having her *upcoming conception announced*. It's just an image of a woman standing before a god, and PJ is simply trying to "fill in the blanks" for us. First of all, there was nothing in the image saying or suggesting that the woman here was a virgin. Did anyone see a hymen? While a little research did show that this was part of Horus' birth narrative, you could also see from the image that the woman had a bulging belly, thus was *already pregnant*. It's her upcoming *birth* being announced, not her conception. In fact, it's *not even Isis* in that image. This is a different birth narrative for Horus, in which his mother is a human queen and her father is Amun, and their lovemaking is described back in panel 4, which PJ skipped. Even famed atheist skeptic Richard Carrier agrees with all of this in an article here: http://www.frontline-apologetics.com/Luxor_Inscription.html
So basically, if ChangingMyself and Teched show you an image and describe what it shows, ask yourself if the image really shows what they're saying. Since I can't respond, I'll leave it you all to be skeptical of this stuff, and only accept what they say it shows, if it actually shows what they're saying. Are the players in the image who and what they say they are?
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