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On fire for Christ
SFN Regular

Saudi Arabia
1266 Posts

Posted - 08/02/2011 :  16:15:13   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send On fire for Christ a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by ThorGoLucky

Is this the humans-couldn't-have-possibly-evolved-intelligence-and-therefor-were-uplifted-by-a-cosmic-intelligence-or-space-aliens claim?

Basically quantum physics makes chemistry, and we and our primate brains live in the world of chemistry. Quantum weirdness happens on the subatomic level and does not apply to us macroscopic beings.


No it's the opposite. Humans have had their magic taken away by evil space predators.
It sounds a little bit like scientology.


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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26013 Posts

Posted - 08/03/2011 :  09:09:48   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by teched246

Fiction...non-fiction...the line between the two has long since been blurred.
That doesn't mean they're interchangeable. Otherwise, it wouldn't matter if Jesus' stories were based on earlier myths.
Biblical philosophy is largely dependent (if not entirely) on whether or not the events recorded in the bible are non-fictional.
Still doesn't make fiction and non-fiction interchangeable, as you suggested.
What's important are the themes, and how effectively they resound in any given culture.
Well, the Bible certainly resonates with a huge percentage of our population. I guess we should consider that more important than whether it's mythical


It resonates for all the wrong reasons...
How is that relevant to what you were asserting?

Don Juan, on the other hand, was asserting...
Carlos Castaneda was asserting, through his character Don Juan...
...a widespread and long held belief based on scientifically proven premises. For him, the contrast between human behaviour and human intelligence was abnormal enough to warrant investigations into the forces that shape and mold human society given that, whatever triggers our primitive, animalistic behaviours to the point of abnormality, seems to be external.
What else would it be?
Naturally, at our stage in evolution we ought be in full control -- or at least in much greater control -- of our primitive nature.
Why?
Lo and behold, it's actually admitted that almost every aspect of our society has been meticulously structured to stimulate the animalistic vestiges of our brains.
That seems far too simplistic.

How's that ever elusive phantom of a political device, Bin Laden (Goldstein)...you know, that "old serpent" who didn't like us because we're "rich and free"; the defiler of american innocence who we supposedly cast back down to the depths from whence he came You don't have to be a christian to fall for same ruses.
You really think that there was nobody like that prior to Orwell? You live a sheltered life to not see the character as a reflection of common real themes known to people in the mid-20th century.
Orwell's strikingly prophetic (technologically and politcally) novel is more relevant today than it ever was. With the near-full brunt of economic and political pressures bearing down on the middle class it is only matter of time before the following comes true:

...

"then-current" politics my ass.
Bwahahahaha! You're actually asserting that the novel was prophetic (and not just political commentary) based on something that hasn't happened yet? Bwahahahahaha! "It's only a matter of time" must mean "it's already happened" to you.

Seriously, all the major themes in the book were old news by the time the book was written. Its science-fiction aspects becoming more likely with current technology doesn't make the book more relevant, unless you also happen to think that Animal Farm is about agriculture. 1984 is a political warning, not a technological warning. And the politics haven't become different from what they were. Totalitarianism and nationalism have long, long histories.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
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justintime
BANNED

382 Posts

Posted - 10/03/2011 :  13:08:04   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send justintime a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Carlos Castaneda was an anthropologist turned writer turned mystic. He is better understood when studied under the tutelage of Carl Jung. The archetype , mythological or primordial images, are innate universal psychic dispositions that form the substrate from which the basic symbols or representations of unconscious experience emerge.

Jung proposed that the archetype had a dual nature: it exists both in the psyche and in the world at large. He called this non-psychic aspect of the archetype the "psychoid" archetype. Thus the archetypes which ordered our perceptions and ideas are themselves the product of an objective order which transcends both the human mind and the external world.

These early studies possibly are still the research basis for modern neuropsychology.

It is hard for mystics to communicate/articulate their thoughts or experiences similar to a LSD experience. The language may be colorful but does it actually capture the true experience of the subject the one experiencing the high.

There are ancient secrets we should not abandon. Some of our most ancient remedies and cures are actually proving to be right and more effective especially in the emerging field of epigenetics.

We have come this far and have survived much of the time without science and our modern understanding of the world we live in. It was the ancient word and wisdom that supplemented our poor understand of the world that brought us this far. 2011.
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13467 Posts

Posted - 10/03/2011 :  13:51:17   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
justintime:
There are ancient secrets we should not abandon.

If they are secret, how do we know about them?
justintime:
Some of our most ancient remedies and cures are actually proving to be right and more effective especially in the emerging field of epigenetics.

We do look at ancient remedies. And when they work, we figure out what it is about them that is working (break them down at the molecular level) and use the effective part. It's called, medicine.

As for Jung. While some of his therapeutic ideas are of value, they guy was a nutball. Collective unconscious my ass. Why Freud gets dumped on and Jung gets a pass I will never understand. Freud adhered to the scientific method.

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26013 Posts

Posted - 10/03/2011 :  14:14:52   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by justintime

Some of our most ancient remedies and cures are actually proving to be right and more effective especially in the emerging field of epigenetics.
Name one besides aspirin.
We have come this far and have survived much of the time without science and our modern understanding of the world we live in. It was the ancient word and wisdom that supplemented our poor understand of the world that brought us this far. 2011.
You do realize that life was pretty shitty back then. "Survival" was just barely that. The human population on this planet grew fairly slowly until we figured out that sanitation and hygiene were really, really important.

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justintime
BANNED

382 Posts

Posted - 10/03/2011 :  14:43:53   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send justintime a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have never been good at guessing. But any women can attest to the notion the primordial drives (Carl Jung) being stronger than the libido (Freud) and the sheer anticipation of which hole the man might choose to violate is the driving factor behind its success that ruled the collective conscious of women.

Freud was more predictable. Mothers got a favorable nod. The struggle was with the father. This was an unwelcome distraction. Women have since left the in-laws out of the bedroom.
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justintime
BANNED

382 Posts

Posted - 10/03/2011 :  14:51:41   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send justintime a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dave W.

Originally posted by justintime

Some of our most ancient remedies and cures are actually proving to be right and more effective especially in the emerging field of epigenetics.
Name one besides aspirin.
We have come this far and have survived much of the time without science and our modern understanding of the world we live in. It was the ancient word and wisdom that supplemented our poor understand of the world that brought us this far. 2011.
You do realize that life was pretty shitty back then. "Survival" was just barely that. The human population on this planet grew fairly slowly until we figured out that sanitation and hygiene were really, really important.


I am able to name one. Benefits of soy linked to epigenetics.

Check link:

http://www.epigeneticsnews.com/soy-diet/
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard

USA
3739 Posts

Posted - 10/03/2011 :  16:03:39   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit marfknox's Homepage  Send marfknox an AOL message Send marfknox a Private Message  Reply with Quote
justintime wrote:
I have never been good at guessing. But any women can attest to the notion the primordial drives (Carl Jung) being stronger than the libido (Freud) and the sheer anticipation of which hole the man might choose to violate is the driving factor behind its success that ruled the collective conscious of women.
*raising hand* Um, I'm a woman, and all I can see is you spouting sexist drivel. You are being vague enough that the overall message is confusing (probably so it is easier to backtrack when people call you on your bullshit) although it seems to be a form of the new-age sexism that manifests itself as some variation on "Logic and reason is masculine, while intuition is feminine, and people, especially women, can know things through the latter, while men more specialize in using science. Next you'll be talking about how black people are more in touch with their psychic natures.

"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong

Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com

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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26013 Posts

Posted - 10/03/2011 :  16:26:58   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by justintime

I am able to name one. Benefits of soy linked to epigenetics.

Check link:

http://www.epigeneticsnews.com/soy-diet/
Um, you're going to have to show that soy was used as an "ancient remedy and cure" for next-generational obesity and hair color before you can claim that the ancients were "right" about soy.

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justintime
BANNED

382 Posts

Posted - 10/04/2011 :  05:29:11   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send justintime a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dave W.

Originally posted by justintime

I am able to name one. Benefits of soy linked to epigenetics.

Check link:

http://www.epigeneticsnews.com/soy-diet/
Um, you're going to have to show that soy was used as an "ancient remedy and cure" for next-generational obesity and hair color before you can claim that the ancients were "right" about soy.


That was an easy one. I might have exactly what you are looking for. I posted the soy example because it demonstrated how even common foods can make a difference.

Here is the link that deals with obesity and color.

http://discovermagazine.com/2006/nov/cover
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard

USA
3739 Posts

Posted - 10/04/2011 :  06:52:04   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit marfknox's Homepage  Send marfknox an AOL message Send marfknox a Private Message  Reply with Quote
justintime, how does the article in Discovery in any way support your claims? You seem to be attempting to lead those on this forum down another one of your rabbit holes.

"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong

Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com

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marfknox
SFN Die Hard

USA
3739 Posts

Posted - 10/04/2011 :  07:09:03   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit marfknox's Homepage  Send marfknox an AOL message Send marfknox a Private Message  Reply with Quote
justinetime wrote:
There are ancient secrets we should not abandon. Some of our most ancient remedies and cures are actually proving to be right and more effective especially in the emerging field of epigenetics.

We have come this far and have survived much of the time without science and our modern understanding of the world we live in. It was the ancient word and wisdom that supplemented our poor understand of the world that brought us this far. 2011.
This at best says nothing, and at worst makes a totally unsupported claim for which there is a good deal of evidence against. Which it is depends on what you mean by "ancient secrets" (want to give some specific examples of these "secrets"?) The human species isn't a very old species relative to many other complex, social mammals, so I'm not sure what supposed advantage any ancient "word and wisdom" gave us that could be superior to what we possess today. Life expectancy is much higher today than it used to be, particularly because of the huge number of children and babies who died and women who died in childbirth. From this article:

In any case, life was short. Life expectancy at birth probably averaged only about 10 years for most of human history. Estimates of average life expectancy in Iron Age France have been put at only 10 or 12 years. Under these conditions, the birth rate would have to be about 80 per 1,000 people just for the species to survive. Today, a high birth rate would be about 45 to 50 per 1,000 population, observed in only a few countries of Africa and in several Middle Eastern states that have young populations.

Our birth rate assumption will greatly affect the estimate of the number of people ever born. Infant mortality in the human race's earliest days is thought to have been very high perhaps 500 infant deaths per 1,000 births, or even higher.


Lots of dead babies, children, and young women. Yeah, sounds great.

"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong

Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com

Edited by - marfknox on 10/04/2011 07:09:49
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26013 Posts

Posted - 10/04/2011 :  07:30:36   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by justintime

I might have exactly what you are looking for.
Or not.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26013 Posts

Posted - 10/04/2011 :  08:05:16   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by marfknox

Lots of dead babies, children, and young women. Yeah, sounds great.
Wonderful life, wasn't it? Wikipedia claims that in the early 1700s in London, nearly 3/4ths of all children died before age five.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4826 Posts

Posted - 10/04/2011 :  08:11:52   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by marfknox

justintime wrote:
I have never been good at guessing. But any women can attest to the notion the primordial drives (Carl Jung) being stronger than the libido (Freud) and the sheer anticipation of which hole the man might choose to violate is the driving factor behind its success that ruled the collective conscious of women.
*raising hand* Um, I'm a woman, and all I can see is you spouting sexist drivel. You are being vague enough that the overall message is confusing (probably so it is easier to backtrack when people call you on your bullshit) although it seems to be a form of the new-age sexism that manifests itself as some variation on "Logic and reason is masculine, while intuition is feminine, and people, especially women, can know things through the latter, while men more specialize in using science. Next you'll be talking about how black people are more in touch with their psychic natures.



It's actually misapplied newage sexist drivel.

The male is force and the female is form. The female gives form to the chaotic force of the male. For without one another, they are incomplete and can do no work. (Dianic temples REALLY disagree with this one, too.)

That pertains to the dieties and not the practioner as the practioner is considered to have both masculine and femine traits to make a complete person. (Those traits' gender accepted as the traditional gender roles familiar to the practioner.)

Most of the new age folks I know consider the sexes as equal.

Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion
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