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justintime
BANNED
382 Posts |
 Posted - 10/04/2011 : 08:46:25 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by marfknox
justintime wrote: | I have never been good at guessing. But any women can attest to the notion the primordial drives (Carl Jung) being stronger than the libido (Freud) and the sheer anticipation of which hole the man might choose to violate is the driving factor behind its success that ruled the collective conscious of women. |
*raising hand* Um, I'm a woman, and all I can see is you spouting sexist drivel. You are being vague enough that the overall message is confusing (probably so it is easier to backtrack when people call you on your bullshit) although it seems to be a form of the new-age sexism that manifests itself as some variation on "Logic and reason is masculine, while intuition is feminine, and people, especially women, can know things through the latter, while men more specialize in using science. Next you'll be talking about how black people are more in touch with their psychic natures.
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Your argument about Male Logic and Women's Intuition appears straight out of “A meeting of Minds.” You flatter me by suggesting I have applied more than the average sexism archetypes (stereotyping) and advanced some scientific basis for intellectual disparity between the sexes. The pile driver metaphor I used could hardly be construed as a scientific yardstick(measure)or even encroach on scientific curiosity. But that is where my intuition ends and logic begins.
There is hardly any vagueness in my delivery or position. I have stated what men want and what gay men want. And factors that go into their decision making process
I have also avoided being overtly descriptive about these observations so as not to offend or promote further stereotyping which you are attributing to being vague.
You could enlighten us from a women’s perspective why you disagree with my positions and assumptions.
A. Men treat women like sex objects.
B. Women appear to like that and even exploit their sexuality to their advantage.
C. Not everyone is into cyborgs
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| Edited by - justintime on 10/04/2011 09:02:07 |
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justintime
BANNED
382 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2011 : 09:00:01 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by justintime
I might have exactly what you are looking for. |
Or not.
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I sense a hint of doubt, an unwillingness to set expectations of things hoped for or a conviction of things not seen. You just lack FAITH. How blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2011 : 09:20:01 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by justintime
I sense a hint of doubt... |
A hint? How can I be less subtle?
You claimed that modern science is demonstrating the correctness of "ancient remedies and cures." You have yet to offer any ancient remedy or cure for anything as an example.
The soy thing would be an example if and only if you could provide evidence that some "ancient" people used it specifically to prevent next-generational obesity or blondness. The fact that people have eaten soy for a long time is not proof that they knew about its epigenetic effects, and they would have had to have known about them in order to be "right" about it.
Oh, and "more effective" than what? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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justintime
BANNED
382 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2011 : 09:24:13 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
Most of the new age folks I know consider the sexes as equal.
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Have you looked into the Yin and Yang of equal but opposite. Opposites thus only exist in relation to each other. This concept lies at the origins of many branches of classical Chinese science and philosophy |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2011 : 09:31:44 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by justintime
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
Most of the new age folks I know consider the sexes as equal.
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Have you looked into the Yin and Yang of equal but opposite. Opposites thus only exist in relation to each other. This concept lies at the origins of many branches of classical Chinese science and philosophy
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I have and rejected in this argument as being baseless.
The concept of equal in the new age application is like steam. Steam all by itself does no work. A steam engine does no work in the absense of steam. It takes both working together to move freight.
These are equal but complimentary instead of opposites. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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justintime
BANNED
382 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2011 : 09:32:23 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by justintime
I sense a hint of doubt... |
A hint? How can I be less subtle?
You claimed that modern science is demonstrating the correctness of "ancient remedies and cures." You have yet to offer any ancient remedy or cure for anything as an example.
The soy thing would be an example if and only if you could provide evidence that some "ancient" people used it specifically to prevent next-generational obesity or blondness. The fact that people have eaten soy for a long time is not proof that they knew about its epigenetic effects, and they would have had to have known about them in order to be "right" about it.
Oh, and "more effective" than what?
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You have to take the two links I provided to make that connection.
A diet rich in methyl donors, small chemical clusters that can attach to a gene and turn it off. These molecules are common in the environment and are found in many foods, including onions, garlic, beets, soy(my addition) and in the food supplements. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2011 : 11:39:39 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by justintime
You have to take the two links I provided to make that connection. |
No. I see no info at either link that shows that some "ancient" people knew that soy could prevent obesity in - or change the hair color of - their next generation.| A diet rich in methyl donors, small chemical clusters that can attach to a gene and turn it off. These molecules are common in the environment and are found in many foods, including onions, garlic, beets, soy(my addition) and in the food supplements. |
Yes, yes, yes. That doesn't show that these things were "ancient remedies and cures" for anything. It doesn't show they were thought of as anything but food. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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justintime
BANNED
382 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2011 : 12:54:48 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by justintime
You have to take the two links I provided to make that connection. |
No. I see no info at either link that shows that some "ancient" people knew that soy could prevent obesity in - or change the hair color of - their next generation.| A diet rich in methyl donors, small chemical clusters that can attach to a gene and turn it off. These molecules are common in the environment and are found in many foods, including onions, garlic, beets, soy(my addition) and in the food supplements. |
Yes, yes, yes. That doesn't show that these things were "ancient remedies and cures" for anything. It doesn't show they were thought of as anything but food.
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Sorry DaveW. It appears I did not save the research published by 2 Asian scientist going mainstream with benefits of soy and other Asian vegetables and their believed medicinal properties passed down generations. What stood out was the recent study on soy and its cancer preventing/suppressing benefits under scientific scrutiny. Soy has been a staple food of China, Japan, Korea for centuries.
Here is another link that connects Asians soy diet to lower rates of obesity and cancer. Asians consume large amounts of soy, which has been linked to lower rates of breast, endometrial and prostate cancer, among other health benefits.
http://www.geneimprint.com/site/press/16581547-1157249628 |
| Edited by - justintime on 10/04/2011 13:06:59 |
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Hal
Skeptic Friend
USA
302 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2011 : 13:35:35 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by justintime
Sorry DaveW. It appears I did not save the research published by 2 Asian scientist going mainstream with benefits of soy and other Asian vegetables and their believed medicinal properties passed down generations. What stood out was the recent study on soy and its cancer preventing/suppressing benefits under scientific scrutiny. Soy has been a staple food of China, Japan, Korea for centuries.
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But I thought your whole point was that this was an example of ancient, "forgotten" wisdom? Dave's issue was that you don't make that case merely by pointing out that Asian peoples ate soy.
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Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
Martin Luther King Jr.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2011 : 14:22:01 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by justintime
Soy has been a staple food of China, Japan, Korea for centuries. |
Yes. I understand it grows pretty well in southeast Asia. That still doesn't mean that the "ancient" people knew anything about its epigenetic effects. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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justintime
BANNED
382 Posts |
Posted - 10/04/2011 : 14:34:37 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Hal
Originally posted by justintime
Sorry DaveW. It appears I did not save the research published by 2 Asian scientist going mainstream with benefits of soy and other Asian vegetables and their believed medicinal properties passed down generations. What stood out was the recent study on soy and its cancer preventing/suppressing benefits under scientific scrutiny. Soy has been a staple food of China, Japan, Korea for centuries.
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But I thought your whole point was that this was an example of ancient, "forgotten" wisdom? Dave's issue was that you don't make that case merely by pointing out that Asian peoples ate soy.
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The Asians always believe in the medicinal value of certain foods like soy. But could not scientifically prove it. But that did not stop them from eating it. The introduction of soy to Europe and US is quite recent. 19th century.
Now there is plenty of research in soy. And those ancient beliefs are finding some modern support.
There is one problem though. The way Asians prepare soy and what they have known from the beginning is you do not eat soy directly. It has to be fermented first. Which is not how is consumed in the US and Europe.
Almost every Asian knows the benefit of soy. Too bad their benefits are only now being realized by the Western world.
We should have a series to highlight the difference between western and eastern medicine. Obesity in Europe and the Western world.
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2011 : 09:22:07 [Permalink]
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justintime strays yet further and further from the topic going on more vague, bullshit tangents: | The Asians always believe in the medicinal value of certain foods like soy. But could not scientifically prove it. But that did not stop them from eating it. The introduction of soy to Europe and US is quite recent. 19th century. |
The soybean is native to Asia. Of course they were eating it long before Westerners. Along with every other edible plant native to their region.
| Now there is plenty of research in soy. And those ancient beliefs are finding some modern support. |
The ancient Chinese also believes that dog meat had medicinal qualities, most of which are completely unfounded, and some of which are incredibly cruel. The biggest controversy over the consumption of dog meat in countries like China and Korea are rooted in very old beliefs that torturing and killing a dog before killing and eating it will cure impotency. Though it is increasingly taboo today, many still believe and continue the practice. I taught in South Korea for a year and some Canadian and American teachers I knew came on a group of young men viciously torturing dogs, including kicking, beating, forcing them to watch them torture other dogs, and then draping the corpses of the finally dead dogs over the cages of the ones to be tortured next. All happening in an alley in modern day Seoul. Hooray for ancient Eastern wisdom that just won't die, eh?
There are countless ancient beliefs about supposed cures for all kinds of ailments, most of which are completely useless and wrong. So even if ancients accurately predicted some of the benefits of soy, so what? If a psychic makes a correct prediction 1% of the time, is he or she actually psychic?
There is one problem though. The way Asians prepare soy and what they have known from the beginning is you do not eat soy directly. It has to be fermented first. Which is not how is consumed in the US and Europe.
Almost every Asian knows the benefit of soy. Too bad their benefits are only now being realized by the Western world.
We should have a series to highlight the difference between western and eastern medicine. Obesity in Europe and the Western world. |
Oh yeah? And exactly how would we evaluate the effectiveness of different methods? Would it be by using the scientific method which is the basis for medical research in the Western world? Or would we just go by our "primordial" instincts?
Health is much more determined by affluence, not Western verses Eastern medicine or philosophy. Check out a list of countries by average life expectancy and you see two very affluent Eastern nations in the top two slots (Japan and Hong Kong), and five very affluence Western nations in the next five slots. Continue going down and you see it switch from East to West quite a bit. The United States is listed as #36, although if you look at demographics based on income you'll find that the life expectancy among poor Americans, especially poor, black Americans is pulling down the average. Obesity among poorer Americans is also higher. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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| Edited by - marfknox on 10/05/2011 09:24:27 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2011 : 09:33:22 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by justintime
The Asians always believe in the medicinal value of certain foods like soy. But could not scientifically prove it. But that did not stop them from eating it...
Now there is plenty of research in soy. And those ancient beliefs are finding some modern support. |
This is the Texas Sharpshooter Fallacy.| The introduction of soy to Europe and US is quite recent. 19th century. |
18th.| There is one problem though. The way Asians prepare soy and what they have known from the beginning is you do not eat soy directly. It has to be fermented first. Which is not how is consumed in the US and Europe. |
Neither soy milk nor tofu is fermented, but both have long histories in Asia.| Almost every Asian knows the benefit of soy. |
What are the benefits of soy known to almost every Asian? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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justintime
BANNED
382 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2011 : 10:17:44 [Permalink]
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Benefits long known to the Asians
The soybean has been used in China for 5,000 years as a food and a component of drugs soy was considered sacred for its use in crop rotation as a method of fixing nitrogen. Used soy as a protein supplement.
How soy was staple to the Chinese diet and in many different forms. http://eatingchina.com/articles/soystory.htm
Soy milk and tofu do not go through the regular fermentation process. It has been adapted over the years. (Incidentally the kanji characters for tofu literally mean fermented beans, but tofu is not fermented in any way - at least as it's made currently.)
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 10/05/2011 : 11:02:52 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by justintime
Benefits long known to the Asians
The soybean has been used in China for 5,000 years as a food and a component of drugs... |
Yes, but why? What specific ailments was it supposed to fix? If you can find evidence that soy has been known to prevent next-generational obesity or blondness, then you can say that modern medicine is proving the ancients "right." Otherwise, you're just engaging in the sharpshooter fallacy. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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They gave us their mind
