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marfknox
SFN Die Hard

USA
3739 Posts

Posted - 10/08/2011 :  09:24:14   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit marfknox's Homepage  Send marfknox an AOL message Send marfknox a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I just remembered hearing an interview with a David Lyons, the business journalist who wrote a blog where he took on the pseudonym of Fake Steve Jobs. The blog was always rather irreverent and often unflattering to Steve Jobs, but it was done with respect and apparently Lyons stopped blogging twice in response to Jobs's suffering health. I went to the blog this morning and found this funny-yet-still-appropriate tribute to Jobs. A little snippet of the humor in this post:
You were the one who invented,
who created,
who said no,
thatís not good enough,
go do it again.
Go make it amazing
astounding
profound
perfect
& stop being such a whiny little bitch
because your kid is in a school play
& and you donít want to work late.

"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong

Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com

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SocraticGadfly
New Member

5 Posts

Posted - 10/11/2011 :  00:46:50   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send SocraticGadfly a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by H. Humbert

Originally posted by Kil
It's no exaggeration that he changed the way we all live whether you are an apple user or not.
Ok, count me among those who doesn't understand what exactly Jobs contributed. Computers have changed the way we live, certainly. And Jobs was definitely a pioneer in that industry. But is there anything we use today that wouldn't have eventually come along the technology pipeline without Jobs? Take the iPhone. Sure, it's great to finally have all that technology crammed into a single device, but such all-in-one devices were predicted for ages. So Apple's product seems to be more the result of the technology finally becoming miniaturized enough to make such a device possible rather than the triumph of a single visionary. It's not like other companies weren't all trying to come up with similar devices. So at the end of the day, I see Jobs as an astoundingly successful salesman whose primary accomplishment was introducing "aesthetics" to computer products, i.e. realizing you could sell more technological gadgets to the public by encasing them in pink plastic rather than industrial gray.

It just seems weird to celebrate a man for nothing more than being a good capitalist. What am I missing?



There is no god and I am his prophet. - SocraticGadfly
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SocraticGadfly
New Member

5 Posts

Posted - 10/11/2011 :  00:49:19   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send SocraticGadfly a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Totally agree with Humbert. Much of this would have come down the pike anyway. Besides, as good skeptics, we should be skeptical toward hagiography of any sort, including the effing boatloads of it being ladled out to a man:

1. Clearly NOT a humanist (see Foxconn, suicides, etc)
2. A religious fraud (see Foxconn and Jobs as Buddhist.)

Originally posted by H. Humbert

Originally posted by Kil
It's no exaggeration that he changed the way we all live whether you are an apple user or not.
Ok, count me among those who doesn't understand what exactly Jobs contributed. Computers have changed the way we live, certainly. And Jobs was definitely a pioneer in that industry. But is there anything we use today that wouldn't have eventually come along the technology pipeline without Jobs? Take the iPhone. Sure, it's great to finally have all that technology crammed into a single device, but such all-in-one devices were predicted for ages. So Apple's product seems to be more the result of the technology finally becoming miniaturized enough to make such a device possible rather than the triumph of a single visionary. It's not like other companies weren't all trying to come up with similar devices. So at the end of the day, I see Jobs as an astoundingly successful salesman whose primary accomplishment was introducing "aesthetics" to computer products, i.e. realizing you could sell more technological gadgets to the public by encasing them in pink plastic rather than industrial gray.

It just seems weird to celebrate a man for nothing more than being a good capitalist. What am I missing?



There is no god and I am his prophet. - SocraticGadfly
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard

USA
3739 Posts

Posted - 10/11/2011 :  06:28:03   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit marfknox's Homepage  Send marfknox an AOL message Send marfknox a Private Message  Reply with Quote
SocraticGadfly wrote:
Besides, as good skeptics, we should be skeptical toward hagiography of any sort, including the effing boatloads of it being ladled out to a man:
No one here has heralded Jobs as a saint. What has been most emphasized is the legacy and vision that extend beyond the man and his personal characteristics. In other words, the widespread impact his actions had on the world.

1. Clearly NOT a humanist (see Foxconn, suicides, etc)
Jobs is to be blamed for misconduct on the part of a manufacturing company where Apple products were made? Even though Foxconn was audited by Apple and after the scandals broke, Foxconn was forced to change many of its practices. What exactly are you accusing Jobs of here?

I buy many products made in China, many of which are no doubt manufactured in inhumane conditions. I also buy tomatoes, even though no doubt some of them have been harvested via slave labor in Florida. I suppose that makes me "not a humanist"? I'm just curious, how close of a role does someone have to play in a corrupt system to be held personally responsible. Because depending on where you draw that line, I might say you are "not a humanist" because you are spending precious free time dicking around on this forum instead of spending that time fighting injustice in the world.

2. A religious fraud (see Foxconn and Jobs as Buddhist.)
What does Foxconn have to do with religious fraud? What does Jobs's incorporation of Buddhism into his religious worldview and practice have to do with religious fraud?

"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong

Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com

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sailingsoul
SFN Addict

2830 Posts

Posted - 10/11/2011 :  21:46:40   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send sailingsoul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Steve Jobs is reported to have delayed accepting standard or recommended treatments, when he was first diagnosed as having cancer. In this article by Brian Dunning he reports this about Steve's first approach toward his treatment of the cancer.
Article excerpt, bolding mine,,,
Steve was lucky (if you can call it that) and had a rare form called an islet cell neuroendocrine tumor, which is actually quite treatable with excellent survival rates ó if caught soon enough. The median survival is about a decade, but it depends on how soon itís removed surgically. Steve caught his very early, and should have expected to survive much longer than a decade. Unfortunately Steve relied on a diet instead of early surgery. There is no evidence that diet has any effect on islet cell carcinoma. As he dieted for nine months, the tumor progressed, and took him from the high end to the low end of the survival rate.
With Jobs ignoring his doctors' recommendations for evidence-based medical intervention for the first nine months, we can never be sure what affect this had on the outcome. SS

There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard

USA
3739 Posts

Posted - 10/12/2011 :  09:20:38   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit marfknox's Homepage  Send marfknox an AOL message Send marfknox a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Good find, ss. I'm surprised it took this long for that info to appear on a skeptic forum.

"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong

Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com

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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26014 Posts

Posted - 10/12/2011 :  11:09:23   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I thought that stuff was common knowledge. Orac has a lot of links to older news about Jobs' treatment(s) in this recent post tearing Gonzalez a new one.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard

USA
3739 Posts

Posted - 10/12/2011 :  18:09:02   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit marfknox's Homepage  Send marfknox an AOL message Send marfknox a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It might be common knowledge. I find that there are a lot of things that are "common knowledge" that I don't know about.

"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong

Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com

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sailingsoul
SFN Addict

2830 Posts

Posted - 10/20/2011 :  23:57:38   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send sailingsoul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Steve Jobs biographer comments on 60 minutes about Jobs refusal to have surgery and all the woo he tried. In this segment of an up and coming show. Words for one who knows first hand.

There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS
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